Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

[Fersas]

Raiding isn't about the gear. The gear is only there to serve as a slowing agent so that guilds don't blow through all the content in the game in 1 month. Honestly i could care less if i get 0 ups from now till the last boss of sunwell plateau, as long as i'm geared enough to do whatever encounter my guild is working on.

THats exactly what i feel also. PVE isnt about gear its about clearing the content. I havent gotten any upgrades to my shadow priests gear since gruul. I know its kinda sad ;D

[Narzania]

Honestly...I find this issue almost moronic. If PVP epics are so easy to get....why don't more PVE people go for them? If you're complaining they are soo much better and so much easier to get, just save your DKP's and do some arenas. After all, like you stated, it's just 10 arenas a week...it takes little time, so....find the time and do it!
Some will say "but I don't want to do PVP! I'm a PVE person!", but hey...I never wanted to grind for repairs or grind for mats to create flasks/pots either, yet I had to do it.
I guess it's standard, for every one person that cries for a buff, 10 more cry for a nerf somewhere. Instead of requesting for more token item drops(to minimize randomness) in instances and bosses dropping more items(as I think has already been implemented in SSC/TK (?)) you instead ask for a nerf to PVP.
I actually understand a bit how some of you feel. I raided Molten Core ---> Naxrammas, doing raids almost everyday for god knows how long. On my server, hordeside anyway I was the only person in the entire server to have a "Sharpened Silithid Femur", and...yes, it did feel quite well for my ego.But that gave me no right to demand that there would be no better PVP weapon just so I could sit on top of the "food chain".
Unfortunately, now I stopped having time to raid, so I gathered my Karazhan gear, bought the S2 caster sword(because as luck would have it....in all this time I never saw anything better than a blue 70 caster weapon) and I'm working on arenas on my free time, as it requires less coordination amongst ppl.Getting 25 ppl together or getting 3,5..is a lot diferent. And that's what the arenas allow, progression without having necessarily to join a raiding guild. I might even suck at PVP, but slowly...I'll get my progression, based on my skill and hability, the same as a PVE group. After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether.

This new 2000 / 1850 requirement on items also does little. From what I can remember arena seasons aren't much bigger than 6 months.In 6 months with average rating (around 1500's), you'll probably get 5 pieces.Since a new season removes the requirements on the old season gear, all it means is you can only buy your shoulders after having spent the time to get the other pieces.I have no problem with that, it just means the shoulders are the last piece of gear I'll buy each season, compared to the "leet" players who can buy them right away and flex they e-peen from the start of the season.

Bottom line, comparing PVE and PVP is stupid, because one is static and with enough preservance you will eventually get the boss down, while in PVP you can work your ass off and you'll still not hit the 2k rating required no matter how long you try. One way of making it fair, though, make Raid bosses gain points from each player he kills. Then at the start of the week, they buy new gear based on the points they won. That way, the dificulty of doing arenas will be comparable to PVE.(It sounds ridiculous,no? That's because it's like comparing apples and oranges).

Thank you so much Dtangel!

Again I repeat his comment which I fully support "After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether." ;D

and to you:

Narzania, please go cancel your account and promptly drink a glass of bleach.

If I could, I'd file a lawsuit against you for all the brain cells I lost reading your verbal diarrhea.

Yes SIR I will do exactly as you say ;D

P.S Thx for giving enough attention to this post to an extent that you lost so many brain cells. I truly apologise about it but perhaps you should not have read it after all.

[Eetabeetay]

Wow i just went through the pvp forums and you have like 5 threads started with nothing but a bunch of QQing in them. If you're this unhappy with pvp, just quit wow - please.

[Narzania]

Wow i just went through the pvp forums and you have like 5 threads started with nothing but a bunch of QQing in them.

So what- its my right to write what I feel, isn't it? Some people agree and some disagree. Whats wrong with it? People who feel so annoyed by certain posts should not read them and should not insult other people. But I am certain that there are many people in the same position.

And whats wrong with it, it appears that it keeps people interested, so many replies- Making people either happy or pissed off to what they see written over here it doesnt matter. What matters is that it attracts attention and interest and appears that its has not been a topic that people have ignored, either in a negative or positive way- its a topic that affects all of us.

But please lets not abstain from main thema. And who told you I dont like PvP? I like both PvP and PvE. Ijust wish I had easier access to PvE and PvErs have easy access on PvP and am sure its something that concern many people here. ;D

[Narzania]

I am wondering also how the new instance's ZA gear and Weapons will be compared to the S3 ones...

[Lesane]

Lol at guaranteed to get items. I have been killing moroes since about 1 and a half month after TBC was released and up until today I have yet to see his boots even drop. Let's not even start talking about dragonspine trophy. In the time I have been TRYING to get those items (since I still don't have them), I could have easily PVPed up enough points to buy me everything from the arena vendor with 5k points ready for the next season. Sure, I did get other loot, but a lot of the items I did get are simply subpar items that I only bought because the ones I am aiming for won't drop, not to mention that once they drop I have to compete with other guys who had the same problem as me and have to throw a lot of DKP into the ring (DKP equal to months of raiding) if I want to be guaranteed to get it.

P.S: Dtangel, no one was crying for nerfs against PVE items, only thing that happened here was people justifying the fact that some top of the line PVP epics might be favored over the best PVP rewards acquirable AS OF NOW (which will be 'fixed' in 2.3 and only goes for accesoires and weapons most of the time, resilience is required for any class)

Edit: Typo'd PVE as PVP :P

[dtangel]

Lol at guaranteed to get items. I have been killing moroes since about 1 and a half month after TBC was released and up until today I have yet to see his boots even drop. Let's not even start talking about dragonspine trophy. In the time I have been TRYING to get those items (since I still don't have them), I could have easily PVPed up enough points to buy me everything from the arena vendor with 5k points ready for the next season. Sure, I did get other loot, but a lot of the items I did get are simply subpar items that I only bought because the ones I am aiming for won't drop, not to mention that once they drop I have to compete with other guys who had the same problem as me and have to throw a lot of DKP into the ring (DKP equal to months of raiding) if I want to be guaranteed to get it.


P.S: Dtangel, no one was crying for nerfs against PVP items, only thing that happened here was people justifying the fact that some top of the line PVP epics might be favored over the best PVP rewards acquirable AS OF NOW (which will be 'fixed' in 2.3 and only goes for accesoires and weapons most of the time, resilience is required for any class)

The nerfs requests I was complaining were aimed at the people that said stuff like "it should be required 200 weekly games in arenas". But that's just me, I don't like grinding...be it PVE or PVP. And that's what the arenas favour, nice gear for those willing to get it, in a fun way. I do agree that some items should be challenging to obtain, but never at the expense of grinding. Like the people above me have said, some don't even want the loot...they just want to do their PVE. And by the nature of those PVE events, if you persist and learn from them, you'll eventually get there. You can't say you're not there for the epics and then complain other people are getting easy epics while you're not.

And I totally understand your view. My guild had already killed Lady Vashj, and we were working on Kael...and I still had the blue caster sword from mechannar(or was it Arcatraz?). Well..either way, since no blade would drop(for me anyway) I finally gave up and used my arena points to get the S2 caster dagger. Problem solved. And that's what I'm advocating. The ability for everyone to get gear if they work for it. I do agree...the PVP system makes it easy for some people to get gear, but why not simply use the system instead of rioting against it?

It's like some alliance player complaining he had to get to exalted with the dwarves to buy his ram mount(buying runecloth to deliver and etc), and now, suddenly, with the Brewfest people who do a couple of daily quests get the same mount in under a week with 1% of the time and/or money he had to spend.

[Chrianna]

Thank you so much Dtangel!

Again I repeat his comment which I fully support "After all...seriously....if in 10 months of raiding you don't get more than 8 pieces of gear(someone already did the math about this some posts ago), you should seriously consider quit raiding, or quiting WOW alltogether." ;D

All that needs to be said to this is "The Random Number Generator is not your friend, and it does not want to be your friend. Between hoping that an item drops, and winning it if it does drop, you actually can't be guaranteed 1 item over 10 months. You have a good chance of getting items over such a long period of time, but no guarantee."

[Chrianna]

And I totally understand your view. My guild had already killed Lady Vashj, and we were working on Kael...and I still had the blue caster sword from mechannar(or was it Arcatraz?). Well..either way, since no blade would drop(for me anyway) I finally gave up and used my arena points to get the S2 caster dagger. Problem solved. And that's what I'm advocating. The ability for everyone to get gear if they work for it. I do agree...the PVP system makes it easy for some people to get gear, but why not simply use the system instead of rioting against it?

I'd prefer if the system got changed so both play styles win out in the end.

1. Add more PvE geared weapons to PvE. Rogues and other classes are pretty much forced into arenas for weapons until BT/Hyjal because the weapons either have a crap drop rate (caster weapons, for example), or they are simply not worth it if they do drop (rogues have NO good off hands in Kara, SSC, Gruul, Mag, or The Eye, and only really have upgrades from 5 man blue off hands in BT).

2. Remove PvE stats from PvP gear. PvP gear doesn't need stats like hit or spell hit, yet, it's there. And in greater quantities than the PvE gear for some pieces. Replace the hit and spell hit with resilience and spell penetration,which are PvP stats. This makes the PvP weapons not as wanted for PvE progression like some items are now (weapons mainly).

3. Give PvEers boss kill points tallied in-game. Each time you kill a boss, you earn points to buy items from their loot tables. Each boss' points are separate from other bosses, so you can't, for example, kill Attumen a bunch of times and then get items from Prince's or Nightbane's loot table. Make the amount of kills necessary to buy the items scale based on the lockout time of the instance. Then, after a certain amount of kills, if the boss hasn't dropped the item you want or you haven't won it if it has dropped (and rarely do bosses have more than one item you will want), you can walk up to a vendor and buy your shit, instead of constantly farming a boss for months on end hoping for the drop and that you win it.

This is different from the PvP system in an important way, though. You get no points for losing. You have to kill the boss to get your points.

This also allows guilds to gear up at a more even pace, and allow newer people in for farm bosses easier, and also allows guilds to leave instances behind faster to progress. It also allows PvE players who don't want to PvP to not have to PvP because they know that they would be guaranteed their items, eventually.

The bosses would still drop their items, so you can get lucky, but if luck is not with you, you aren't royally screwed each kill until the following week when you can hope luck might be with you then.

Everyone wins. PvPers get their items the same way they currently do. And PvEers would then also be guaranteed items the more they kill the bosses.

[Thesentinel]

I love the boss kill points idea

Although - in some ways Badges of Justice are the new implementation of this idea (as of 2.3 for KZ and ZA).

And in another way - Tier pieces being tokens shared by multiple classes also covers that.

But even so - I still love the idea

[Nero Duskwind]

I am wondering also how the new instance's ZA gear and Weapons will be compared to the S3 ones...

The Dagger of Mad Mojo is comparable to Fang of Vashj, Heartrazor, and S2 daggers. Not quite sure it stacks up to Hyjal/BT daggers tho, but it looks like ZA will be a good supplement for players in SSC/TK working to push on through to the next tier.

[Eetabeetay]

Honestly i think blizzard put pvp items in pve and vice versa for a reason. They want players to experience all aspects of wow, and honestly, some of the best pvpers i know are in hardcore raiding guilds. Plus its not like theres a ton of pvp stuff in pve, so even if you dont have time to pvp, one or two items isnt gonna make a huge difference.

[Deleted]

actually created an account just 2 call the guy who started this post a moron.
its like .. while your at it... why dont mages have plate ?! and why dont warriors have flashheal and stealth!?

[Shadowclaimer]

I want plate, and I want my hunter's deadzone removed.

Hell why don't we just remove all classes and give one class all abilities! That'd be fun!

[Narzania]

And I totally understand your view. My guild had already killed Lady Vashj, and we were working on Kael...and I still had the blue caster sword from mechannar(or was it Arcatraz?). Well..either way, since no blade would drop(for me anyway) I finally gave up and used my arena points to get the S2 caster dagger. Problem solved. And that's what I'm advocating. The ability for everyone to get gear if they work for it. I do agree...the PVP system makes it easy for some people to get gear, but why not simply use the system instead of rioting against it?

Wise talk Dtangel. Actually by having PvE ppl rioting that PvP epics are easy they also harmed themselves.

You know what the definition of stupidness is? If you work against something that harms other people but will at the same time harm yourself. Its stupid cause you turn a win/win situation into a lose/lose one.

[Narzania]

I'd prefer if the system got changed so both play styles win out in the end.

1. Add more PvE geared weapons to PvE. Rogues and other classes are pretty much forced into arenas for weapons until BT/Hyjal because the weapons either have a crap drop rate (caster weapons, for example), or they are simply not worth it if they do drop (rogues have NO good off hands in Kara, SSC, Gruul, Mag, or The Eye, and only really have upgrades from 5 man blue off hands in BT).

2. Remove PvE stats from PvP gear. PvP gear doesn't need stats like hit or spell hit, yet, it's there. And in greater quantities than the PvE gear for some pieces. Replace the hit and spell hit with resilience and spell penetration,which are PvP stats. This makes the PvP weapons not as wanted for PvE progression like some items are now (weapons mainly).

3. Give PvEers boss kill points tallied in-game. Each time you kill a boss, you earn points to buy items from their loot tables. Each boss' points are separate from other bosses, so you can't, for example, kill Attumen a bunch of times and then get items from Prince's or Nightbane's loot table. Make the amount of kills necessary to buy the items scale based on the lockout time of the instance. Then, after a certain amount of kills, if the boss hasn't dropped the item you want or you haven't won it if it has dropped (and rarely do bosses have more than one item you will want), you can walk up to a vendor and buy your shit, instead of constantly farming a boss for months on end hoping for the drop and that you win it.

This is different from the PvP system in an important way, though. You get no points for losing. You have to kill the boss to get your points.

This also allows guilds to gear up at a more even pace, and allow newer people in for farm bosses easier, and also allows guilds to leave instances behind faster to progress. It also allows PvE players who don't want to PvP to not have to PvP because they know that they would be guaranteed their items, eventually.

The bosses would still drop their items, so you can get lucky, but if luck is not with you, you aren't royally screwed each kill until the following week when you can hope luck might be with you then.

Everyone wins. PvPers get their items the same way they currently do. And PvEers would then also be guaranteed items the more they kill the bosses.

Thanks Chrianna. I totally agree on this and thats what I was reffering to my post above- make it a win/win instead of a lose/lose.

[Narzania]

actually created an account just 2 call the guy who started this post a moron.
its like .. while your at it... why dont mages have plate ?! and why dont warriors have flashheal and stealth!?

HA HA HA

You know my answer....??

I may be a moron but- you- the one who read the post and created an account and answered the post are a far bigger moron because if thats what you think, you should have not been bothered.

P.S And instead of accusing people please try to be C O N S T R U C T I V E

[Narzania]

If the mace nerf isn't substantial, why would SH be the best PVP weapon and not the season 3 mace. Btw, SH has never been the best PVP weapon, it's just that it's friggin' easy to get unlike the black temple weapons which are better PVP weapons.

Thank you Lesane, you also agree with me. (re: post regarding SH vs S3 PvP weapons)

[Iosif]

I know how to solve this... Make weapons available only to players with Arena ratings that are over 2050 in 2v2, 2000 in 3v3, 1950 in 5v5 with over 30% total played season games.

2000 is a mostly exclusive rating in my experience. There will be few "third alts" in these ratings.

Eh, just an idea.

And I do lose durability during a night of Arena matches. Just as much as during a night of raiding without wiping. :P

Maybe thay should add 5% Durablity loss per death in Arenas only... 10 Matches = 50% Durablity loss if you lose every single match for a week... Thay might be able to compeat with my Repair Bill after a night of T6 progression

[vlj]

and you can't use consumeables in arenas = almost no gold spent :O