Again PvE items getting close to being better than PvP for PvP

[Narzania]

and you can't use consumeables in arenas = almost no gold spent :O

Making Arenas difficult for PvP players will also make it difficult for you. You dont understand guys that Arena Armor items are also good for you and you have an advantage over PvP players as you got 2 ways to improve your gear PvP+PvE and therefore by arguying and moaning abt Arena you also make it harder for yourselves...

[Deleted]

As I read on the 2.2 notes the TK and SSC weapons are getting upgrades.....

Well I must say the following:

1) Why then not upgrading Arena weapons too?

2) Why then do you have to place rating requirement to get Best Arena weapons...some teams may NEVER get them with rating requirement of 1.9k. In PvE you are quaranteed to get it sometime as your gear improves because it improves relative to the mobs you fight and not relative to the other players you fight who, in turn, improve at the same pace as you (or faster) which makes no difference in real terms.

3) Why do PvP players who have BS craftet weapons have to do PvE to get the Vortexes to upgrade their weapon?

4) Why best accessories (rings, Trinkets etc) can be obtained though PvE and not PvP? What Trinket we got for PvP? The medallion? The Healing one?Where are the dps Trinkets?

5) Warriors are usually targetted last in Arenas, therefore making high end PVE items (Upgraded weapons + Trinkets + DPS rings etc) their dps insane in Arenas...as last targets who cares abt resilience if all players are already dead in your team?

1)Because they are powerfull enough as it is...

2)Because some people play PVP because it actually requires SKILL to do it, it does not require skill to do 10 fights/week and lose all of them.

3)Because a BS crafted weapon is a part of the PVE aspect of the game, getting high end raiding equalivent gear from Blacksmithing should require you to do High End raiding, besides, the s3 weapons *WILL* out-do the t3 BS weapons after the mace proc nerf..

4)The Arena is about Out-lasting your opponents rather than killing them fast, the teams who is about killing them fast got the gear required to do that allready.

5) Fine, go gear your warrior in PVE gear... He will be first target I can assure you...

[wastedyouth]

2)Because some people play PVP because it actually requires SKILL to do it, it does not require skill to do 10 fights/week and lose all of them.

Your a moron, if it did'nt require skill to kill bosses every week then every single person would've killed illidan. pvp wellfare epics are for people that cannot function in a raid env.

[overneathe]

Ixon, I'm reaaaaally trying to keep myself from flamin your ass to a pile of dust on witch my drood can pee on but I'll just say one thing.
PVPers are better then PVEers in CC.
PVEers are better then PVPers in everything else.

If 40 man raids of PVE and PVP ppl collide... You can sheep/trap/sap/fear/stun/blind/wtvr all day long but PVEers' raw dps power and astonishing set bonuses + improved trinkets/special item slots, random trash recepie items/enchants/pots are simply too much for your pitiful resilience.
Shut up.

[NehvarGonnaGetIt]

Wow, is this some kind of joke? PvE consumes your time, money, and its laughable. All you virgins do is let some powerhouse(s) clear the bosses and then watch their videos and copy their strategy. How good are you at this game?? Most guilds struggle because the players are TERRIBLE. They're so bad that they can watch a video, even have the strategy laid out on a plannogram, and still FAIL miserably. The only PvE'rs that deserve recognition are the ones who paved this magical road (or PvE'rs who man up and learn the encounter themselves) so you can ride their coat-tails to epics. Good PvE'rs and PvP'rs have this in common: they know their class and how to play it. So they are the same, they are good players. Obviously there is Skill involved, this is a video game that requires knowledge and execution of that knowledge in both PvE and PvP.

Of course PvE items are going to get better and possibly to the point where they are better than PvP weapons. Are you that retarded that you had to make a forum post to QQ about it? ZOMG PVE ITEMS ARE GETTING BETTER THAN PVP ITEMS I CANT BELIEVE IT HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE. Getting those items took them a long time of video watching and circle jerking 4-6 hrs a night in vent. Getting your PVP items took a couple weeks of reading AV General Chat while you eat your taco bell value meal and get crushed at a tower you were "defending." PvP items are going to get better as well. Blizzard has done a good job in upgrading to keep it on par with mainstream progression. People who wear a majority of PvE gear in PvP are sacrificing the survivability that the PvP gear offers. The only discrepency with PvP gear that I have is it has 2 set bonus', it should have a third. Not another class based ability buff, but one specific to PvP. Such as.. 8 (5+boots,bracer,belt) piece boosts Stamina by 3-5%.

25 PvE v 25 PvP = PVPers win without a question. Pvpers dont need a strat video to know to annihilate your PvE geared healers in 10 seconds. I guess all those trinkets will work great when your fire mages are getting 1 shot by Warriors and Rogues. PvPers are speced for PvP, PvE'rs are speced for PvE.. Since its not PvE, and not a tank and spank, and half of your raid will be so scared and confused that they can't find the MT target, I suspect PvPers win.

[SimTex]

And yet all pvpers come up with their own tactics. There is only has a limited number of ways to win in wow, so there is no need or even possible way that you can reinvent the wheel everytime. When that have been said yes 80% maybe more of the wow player base litterally suck. I don't think that is only in PVE perspective. But move to CS or any other game and you will find the same tend so it would be more surprising if it was the other way around.

[Ordin]

Ixon, I'm reaaaaally trying to keep myself from flamin your ass to a pile of dust on witch my drood can pee on but I'll just say one thing.
PVPers are better then PVEers in CC.
PVEers are better then PVPers in everything else.

If 40 man raids of PVE and PVP ppl collide... You can sheep/trap/sap/fear/stun/blind/wtvr all day long but PVEers' raw dps power and astonishing set bonuses + improved trinkets/special item slots, random trash recepie items/enchants/pots are simply too much for your pitiful resilience.
Shut up.

40 man raids? Do those exist anymore?

I think those pve tanks are going to have a hard time keeping aggro on the pvpers as they go 2 shot all your cloth wearers with 8k health, 0 resilience and no pvp survivability talents.

[Narzania]

TO PROVE THE TOPIC 10 of 16 of top weapons which are compared below for PvP effectiveness, are PVE related:

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....sid=1&pageNo=1


"Well, my fellow warriors, since my current work comes in „waves”, thus leaving plenty of spare time at my disposal, out of pure boredom and curiosity, I decided to analyze the best weapons for our WoW class in terms of PvP efficiency.

There has always been a lot of controversy and confusion regarding this matter. Crit ratings, agility, AP, strength, procs, stuns, different speeds, armor penetration, haste… All of these factors make it pretty challenging to seriously compare weapons. However, I made this effort. I compared their stats, based on the following assumptions:

- warrior is a top-end arena player, has full Vengeful/Vindicator’s gear, and with Deep Thunder (which was my basis for comparison), 12,404 HP and 1,772 AP;
- normalized attacks (MS, WW, OP) happen as often as non-normalized ones like white hits (roughly correct);
- armor penetration calculated based on frequency of opponents (cloth, leather most frequent, then mail and finally plate), with appropriate mitigation reductions applied;
- crit dmg mitigated by 15% due to 300 resilience;
- mace stun proc incorporated based on PTR tests; a 3 sec stun allows 1 extra attack (quite conservative IMO);
- resilience mitgates around 30% of enemy attacks (30% crit chance assumed);
- only “warrior weapons” included in the comparison (no paladin maces, polearms, etc.) – basically, we’re talking about maces, axes and swords with warrior-relevant stats;
- all procs were incorporated based on ingame mechanics and empiric tests;
- cutoff point was Deep Thunder in terms of average damage – even if e.g. Thunder may beat some of the listed weapons, it was too low DPS/avg dmg to make it onto this list. The S1 Gladiator’s weapons didn’t make it, either.

*DISCLAIMER*
Since the attempt to compare weapons "apples to apples" was made based on several assumptions (some of them certainly being objectionable), and PTR tests may not be a representative/final sample for the live 2.3 mace stun proc frequency, I hereby cannot claim any responsibility for possible wrong decisions based on the following preliminary recommendations and ratings.

Smiley

Very interesting results – the following rankings emerge when we compare the top weapons based on:

- damage output potential (10 of 16 are from PvE):

1. Torch of the Damned – 104.54 (PVE)
2. Stormherald – 103.9 (PVE)
3. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 103.44 (PVP)
4. World Breaker – 100.96 (PVE)
5. Deep Thunder – 100 (PVE)
6. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.82
7. Soul Cleaver – 99.81
8. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 99.5
9. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 99.45
10. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 98.81
11. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 98.74
12. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 98.1
13. Bloodmoon – 97.21
14. Lionheart Executioner – 96.35
15. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 95.63
16. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 94.97

- damage output potential and survivability boost (equally weighted) (10/16 are PvE):

1. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 105.34
2. Stormherald – 104.38
3. Torch of the Damned – 103.73
4. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 101.4
5. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 100.79
6. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 100.71
7. World Breaker – 100.64
8. Soul Cleaver – 100.45
9. Deep Thunder – 100
10. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.34
11. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 98.5
12. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 98.26
13. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 96.97
14. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 96.31
15. Bloodmoon – 92.78
16. Lionheart Executioner – 91.92

- damage output potential and survivability boost (weighted 2:1) – IMHO, the fairest PvP viability ranking, since survivability matters in the arena but warriors are supposed to keep the MS debuff on targets and deal as much damage as possible to kill the enemy healers/clothies first (10/16 are PvE):

1. Vengeful Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 108.78
2. Stormherald – 108.28
3. Torch of the Damned – 108.27
4. World Breaker – 101.6
5. Vengeful Gladiator’s Greatsword – 100.9
6. Soul Cleaver – 100.26
7. Merciless Gladiator’s Bonegrinder – 100.24
8. Deep Thunder – 100
9. Vengeful Gladiator’s Decapitator – 99.52
10. Cataclysm’s Edge – 99.16
11. Jin’rokh, The Great Apocalypse – 97
12. Twinblade of the Phoenix – 96.6
13. Merciless Gladiator’s Greatsword – 92.6
14. Merciless Gladiator’s Decapitator – 91.28
15. Bloodmoon – 89.99
16. Lionheart Executioner – 88.27

Conclusions:

1. Maces rule supreme. The stun, even nerfed, is still an incredible asset. Not even taking into account that more than 1 extra hit can be scored, plus casts are interrupted. The top 3 weapons in all rankings are maces.
2. Stormherald and Deep Thunder are still fantastic weapons. The T3 mace only competes with S3 mace and Torch. The rest is inferior. DT, amazingly, is on par with S2 mace, and clearly beats the other S2 weapons, along with Archimonde sword, Zul’Aman sword and T3 axe!
3. World Breaker is only inferior to S3/T3 maces and Torch. A very strong weapon, a bit underestimated IMO.
4. Cataclysm’s Edge is overrated, it may seem like a blasphemy, but it’s beaten by the “lowly” Deep Thunder in every category! It’s a sword, and way too fast for warriors to be a really great PvP weapon. PvE is a different story of course, but in arena environment, the blade is not a reason to boast.
5. T3 sword/axe and S2 axe are a pretty bad choice for everyone aiming for pure efficiency. Stormherald beats the crap out of them, S2 mace as well. If you don’t like maces because of playstyle/personal preference, craft the axe or purchase the arena sword.
6. Soul Cleaver is the best axe in the game.
7. Jin’rokh is nothing to get really excited about, if you really want that infamous Zin’rokh model recolored, go for the S3 sword, it’s much better than it's PvE-acquired counterpart.
8. If you’re saving up points for an S3 weapon, get the mace by all means. If you already have Stormherald, consider the mace but don’t even touch the other two. If you have Deep Thunder, upgrade to S3 mace, or, if you’re bored with maces and/or you love the ZG sword model, grab the S3 sword. Don’t bother with the axe, it’s not remotely worth the points.
9. Last but not least - what is THE PvP weapon in 2.3, just to answer the post title? IMO, S3 mace wins with a miniscule advantage over T3 mace and Torch. Basically, raiders with or without access to BT will use the Stormherald and spend points on armor, while people without HC raiding guilds will grab the S3 mace. Raiders with access to Torch and a "Skillherald sucks, everyone uses it" attitude will use their Torches... until they sort of become commonplace as well, since the S3 weapons got their skins changed, and the mace won't look like Morgaine's Might, after all. It will be based on the Torch of the Damned model."

[Felix]

Nice comparison above.

[spritezero]

blizz can care less what pvp players think.. they wanna hear the 2 cents from pve, keyboard turning retards. all i know is... theyre getting the wrong information from some kid or a 40 y/o dude that encourages pve only.

[Ansos12]

The reason to make PvE items better is because people who PvE deserve more because they put lots of time and money getting the items. PvPers dont. The reason they made the requirements 1.9k for arenas is so that noobs dont get their hands on good weapons.

Point is blizz wants noobs to have noob weapons and people who are good or have alot of time and deserve the weapons that they have available to em so QQ somewhere else.

[Mightyone]

Since when PvE items are better then Pvp items in PvP?

I f*ck up any1 who is wearing tier6.

I doubt that any PvEr that will get in arena in tier5 with 100-200 resillence at 2300 rating will get instant killed.

PvP is not siting in 1 place and press 1: Flash heal 2. Greater heal
or 1. Fireball .. repeat..repeat..repeat 1 1 1 1 11 1111 1111...... boss dead

Personaly I don't see hard things in PvE, aswell as in PvP, many times you just whipe on boss becouse some1 f*ucked up, or tank stacked to much avoidance and he now is getting a lot of crusing blows and easy is going down.

Boss is doing this - you do this. You even know when boss is going to do this, and you are ready to react, while in PvP you can't predict all of your opponent moves, will he do this, or will he do that?

Tbh, WoW is a team play game, it's easy as cake, and you whipe / fail in PvE or PvP when you are not 100 % concetrated, or slackering or your team raid setup is not good against oponent's setup or raid boss.


So to the conclusion, Resillence makes the item specific for PvP.

Yes, the weapon dps is lower on PvP items, but it points were spent on resillence, wich makes a big difference.


PvErs will never understand this. You can stack a lot of dmg, but in arena you'll blow up from the begging of it, I remember my last 2900 MS crit on a arcane mage in tier 6, ofc his pom pyro hurted a bit.. 3900 dmg, but being enraged with 100 % rage I killed him in 3 sec. White atack + MS + wirldWind + white atack + execute.

[Anaema]

Unless BT/Hyjal gets buffed, S3 will be better than anything but the Warglaives and the Shard looted from Illidan.

[Iosif]

Since when PvE items are better then Pvp items in PvP?

I f*ck up any1 who is wearing tier6.

I doubt that any PvEr that will get in arena in tier5 with 100-200 resillence at 2300 rating will get instant killed.

PvP is not siting in 1 place and press 1: Flash heal 2. Greater heal
or 1. Fireball .. repeat..repeat..repeat 1 1 1 1 11 1111 1111...... boss dead

Personaly I don't see hard things in PvE, aswell as in PvP, many times you just whipe on boss becouse some1 f*ucked up, or tank stacked to much avoidance and he now is getting a lot of crusing blows and easy is going down.

Boss is doing this - you do this. You even know when boss is going to do this, and you are ready to react, while in PvP you can't predict all of your opponent moves, will he do this, or will he do that?

Tbh, WoW is a team play game, it's easy as cake, and you whipe / fail in PvE or PvP when you are not 100 % concetrated, or slackering or your team raid setup is not good against oponent's setup or raid boss.


So to the conclusion, Resillence makes the item specific for PvP.

Yes, the weapon dps is lower on PvP items, but it points were spent on resillence, wich makes a big difference.


PvErs will never understand this. You can stack a lot of dmg, but in arena you'll blow up from the begging of it, I remember my last 2900 MS crit on a arcane mage in tier 6, ofc his pom pyro hurted a bit.. 3900 dmg, but being enraged with 100 % rage I killed him in 3 sec. White atack + MS + wirldWind + white atack + execute.

Clearly someone with on knowledge of anything outside PvP... If PvE was just "Standing there and pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 Boss dead" Anyone could do it. I know lots of PvE'er that simply re-spec for the weekend pull their Arena Gear out of the bank dawn their Hybrid mix of PvP/PvE geared and consistently hold a 2300+ rating. In the Long run PvP is far simpler because every match your against players, inherently players (People) will do similar things based on factors, as a rule you can generally predict what a person is going to do.

PvP weapons should never be "Better" then PvE weps for one major reason, They are so much easier to get. You spend 5 weeks at a 1700 rating your guaranteed a weapon of your choice. You can spend 3 months can never get the weapon you want from Archi/Illdan. PvP Weapons are obtained by small groups of people (4-10 people), PvE Weapons are obtained by Guilds (35-40+ people). Also you can PvP for a WEEK (10 matches) and your repair bill is what about 15-20Gold and little to no regent cost, We Raid for 1 night and i personally burn up that much gold just repairng my weapon alone and our tanks OMG i feel bad for them. Average repair bill on a night with no wipes at all is 20ish gold in repairs (Chain Mail), 5-10gold in potions(2-5Manna potions) 30-50 gold in Arrows (Timeless Arrows x4,000-7,000) so 1 night of raiding is is right around 55-80gold. And the final draw is you spend maybe 2-3 hours a week in the Arena's while we spend 4-6 hours 5 nights a week so that we can progress to a point to get those Tier6 Weapons.

If you get beat down by a Warrior with the Cataclysm's Edge you should consider the fact that they probaly invested 10 times the time and 50 times the gold then you have to get better gear. And you should be happy that you didnt have to invest that much time or gold to get competive gear.

Should PvE weps be better then PvP. Yes mainly because they are far harder to obtain. Any PvP'er that claims otherwise has no idea what they are talking about

[redkiller]

Clearly someone with on knowledge of anything outside PvP... If PvE was just "Standing there and pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 Boss dead" Anyone could do it. I know lots of PvE'er that simply re-spec for the weekend pull their Arena Gear out of the bank dawn their Hybrid mix of PvP/PvE geared and consistently hold a 2300+ rating. In the Long run PvP is far simpler because every match your against players, inherently players (People) will do similar things based on factors, as a rule you can generally predict what a person is going to do.

PvP weapons should never be "Better" then PvE weps for one major reason, They are so much easier to get. You spend 5 weeks at a 1700 rating your guaranteed a weapon of your choice. You can spend 3 months can never get the weapon you want from Archi/Illdan. PvP Weapons are obtained by small groups of people (4-10 people), PvE Weapons are obtained by Guilds (35-40+ people). Also you can PvP for a WEEK (10 matches) and your repair bill is what about 15-20Gold and little to no regent cost, We Raid for 1 night and i personally burn up that much gold just repairng my weapon alone and our tanks OMG i feel bad for them. Average repair bill on a night with no wipes at all is 20ish gold in repairs (Chain Mail), 5-10gold in potions(2-5Manna potions) 30-50 gold in Arrows (Timeless Arrows x4,000-7,000) so 1 night of raiding is is right around 55-80gold. And the final draw is you spend maybe 2-3 hours a week in the Arena's while we spend 4-6 hours 5 nights a week so that we can progress to a point to get those Tier6 Weapons.

If you get beat down by a Warrior with the Cataclysm's Edge you should consider the fact that they probaly invested 10 times the time and 50 times the gold then you have to get better gear. And you should be happy that you didnt have to invest that much time or gold to get competive gear.

Should PvE weps be better then PvP. Yes mainly because they are far harder to obtain. Any PvP'er that claims otherwise has no idea what they are talking about

Exactly

You can also put yourself in a PVE guy place.

You have to spend 4-5 maybe 7 hours of instance with organisation including not only 2-3-5 mans but 25. This is not counting the hours of farming.

How many poeple are currently running BT ? How many pple have their full T6 ? or even full T5 ? not that mutch

Now how many pple have their full S2 ? a bunch.

Does it take skills to go in BT ? yes

Does it take skills to get S2 ? yes ... and no (5-6 weeks at 1700-1800 rating) (you can even pay to get the points from other teams)

But more important, if you imagine that pple have all the same skill level. What is the hardest to get ? T5 or S2 ? I d say T5

This is why S3 (i hope) is going to be different. Pple will need to invest more to get S3 full set and noobs will stay S2 / Kara / ZA gears and no way those pple will be able to get up to BT.

And this i think is the best news for the GOOD PVPrs and PVErs that invest time and efforts.

[Mightyone]

Pff, I'm top ranked PvP player, yet I do PvE, but I hate it, I expirienced only up to SSC/TK, and it's boring as hell.

Hydros -> grab the add, tank it, repeat 5-6 times
Lurker -> wtf? is this a boss or a tresh mob rewarding free epix
Tidewalker -> stand behind, do dps, spam piercing howl
Karatress -> not to chelleging fight.. boring as hell, tank the priest add, and shield bash his healing cast, wich wasn't a problem, having already expirience in PvP where you should react fast.
Vaishj -> dps boss, do not kill raid with static charge, dps naga, dps boss
Leo -> chaleging fight, I liked it.

Yes.. verry hard bosses, easy as cake, and rewards are on the same lvl as the arena gear.

Tk
A'lar -> interesting fight, nothing challeging
Lootriver - > ....
Solarian -> .... crap boss
Kel'thalas -> haven't been yet, was playing arena.


Karazhan? LOL, took my 5v5 team, and some friends, and made our first random raid there. Haven't noticed any challenge.

I was getting more adrenalin from fighting at 2300 rating vs 2300 5v5 teams, rather then doing easy job in raid and getting for this easy epix.

[Mightyone]

Exactly

You can also put yourself in a PVE guy place.

You have to spend 4-5 maybe 7 hours of instance with organisation including not only 2-3-5 mans but 25. This is not counting the hours of farming.

How many poeple are currently running BT ? How many pple have their full T6 ? or even full T5 ? not that mutch

Now how many pple have their full S2 ? a bunch.

Does it take skills to go in BT ? yes

Does it take skills to get S2 ? yes ... and no (5-6 weeks at 1700-1800 rating) (you can even pay to get the points from other teams)

But more important, if you imagine that pple have all the same skill level. What is the hardest to get ? T5 or S2 ? I d say T5

This is why S3 (i hope) is going to be different. Pple will need to invest more to get S3 full set and noobs will stay S2 / Kara / ZA gears and no way those pple will be able to get up to BT.

And this i think is the best news for the GOOD PVPrs and PVErs that invest time and efforts.

You have no life, spending dayly at least 7 hours raiding.

I fought I didn't have life before TBC when I got 14 rank. I fought that playing dayly 4-5 hours in a premeid, made me no life.

No, I wouldn't stay 10 hours in front of PC just to whipe on new bosses. I like PRO guys, wich are doing it fast, not whiping weeks on a boss.

[horgs]

You have no life, spending dayly at least 7 hours raiding.

I fought I didn't have life before TBC when I got 14 rank. I fought that playing dayly 4-5 hours in a premeid, made me no life.

No, I wouldn't stay 10 hours in front of PC just to whipe on new bosses. I like PRO guys, wich are doing it fast, not whiping weeks on a boss.

...

7 hours daily? i dont think so, maybe Nihilum would be an expection but i know of NO guilds that raid 7 hours a night raiding, 4ish hours 5 days a week = hardcore.

You got to rank 14 only playing 4-5 hours a day? jog on ;/ ... plus 4-5 hours isnt much anyhow.

Then you go on to say you wouldnt stay 10 hours in front of a PC to wipe on new bosses, see my first bit -_-

Sorry, but only the guilds that aim for world firsts would raid that much (5-7 days a week, 6 hours a raid e.g. Death and Taxes, Curse, Nihilum, Forte etc. etc.) on new progression, as soon as they have all that content on farm, they only raid about 2 nights a week.

[Squib]

In the Long run PvP is far simpler because every match your against players, inherently players (People) will do similar things based on factors, as a rule you can generally predict what a person is going to do.

Wow. This is the single dumbest thing I have ever seen on the internet. Not just on MMO-Champion. Not just about WoW. But this is the DUMBEST thing I've ever seen EVER on the internet. Oh man.

You're telling me it's easier to predict what a person would do compared to a PROGRAMMED EVENT. Why do you think game developers spend tons of money researching how to do enemy AI? Because it's hard as hell trying to program something that can think like a human. People are infinitely more complex than computer programs when it comes to decision making. There is no way, at our current technology, or even in the near future can you have a computer that is harder to predict than a person. People can improvise, they are impulsive, they can make mistakes, they can develop new strategies. Programs, at the moment, are not even close to what we can do. Maybe computer AI is as good as YOUR intelligence, but that's because you're pretty dumb. Wow seriously. Dumbest thing I've EVER read on the internet. Congrats.

[Narzania]

Wow. This is the single dumbest thing I have ever seen on the internet. Not just on MMO-Champion. Not just about WoW. But this is the DUMBEST thing I've ever seen EVER on the internet. Oh man.

You're telling me it's easier to predict what a person would do compared to a PROGRAMMED EVENT. Why do you think game developers spend tons of money researching how to do enemy AI? Because it's hard as hell trying to program something that can think like a human. People are infinitely more complex than computer programs when it comes to decision making. There is no way, at our current technology, or even in the near future can you have a computer that is harder to predict than a person. People can improvise, they are impulsive, they can make mistakes, they can develop new strategies. Programs, at the moment, are not even close to what we can do. Maybe computer AI is as good as YOUR intelligence, but that's because you're pretty dumb. Wow seriously. Dumbest thing I've EVER read on the internet. Congrats.

No offence to PvE players but I got to agree 100%

Oh and 1 more think....what abt the periodic changes , buffs, nerfs, reshuffling etc in talents of Classes whom REAL ppl play and they got to adapt their play style accordingly?