Warrior: Blood Craze usefulness

[Felix]

I have seen many top arena warriors using this talent (not all though) but I am sceptical of whether it really is a useful talent to have. Once you receive a crit strike it regenerates 3% of your total health over 6 seconds. Its nice to have such a hot but does it really help to the expence for example of 4/5 in CP or 3/3 in Cleave?

[Googolplex]

I have seen many top arena warriors using this talent (not all though) but I am sceptical of whether it really is a useful talent to have. Once you receive a crit strike it regenerates 3% of your total health over 6 seconds. Its nice to have such a hot but does it really help to the expence for example of 4/5 in CP or 3/3 in Cleave?

No!

[Decapitation]

Cleave is total crap, CP is better but its up to you what will you use. Advantage is that both Enrage and Blood Craze can proc when you are only hited (as a compensation for resilience) and not crited. Also more hp you have, more hp you regen so also thats a bit gear depedant question

[Azain]

my question is, where are you dropping the points to get 3/3 BC? the only thing i can see is going 1/5 commaning presence, however it then becomes a discussion of AP and offense vs BC and survivability. its amazing against rogues or pets where a 100 crit heals you for 500. but in all likelihood there is a healing reduction on you, and even if BC is always up its not going to make a difference in the 10 seconds you get focused really hard.

also depends on which arena you are talking about. becomes far more relevant in 2v2 and 3v3 than it does 5v5...

[frosty]

i would deffinately go for blood craze over imp shouts and deffinately over imp cleave :s - obviously bloodcraze is much better than impi commanding shout, the only question really is about 60 attack power or about 350 health (with my warriors crap hp) every 6 seconds - i would prefer blood craze, it has no cooldown, so you can be on about 120 health regen every 2 sec all the time against other warriors/rogues which in the long run from a 2v2 perspective would save your healer some mana, and if you are a warrior with full pvp gear, with about 13-14k hp unbuffed you should deffinately go for blood craze

[Felix]

i would deffinately go for blood craze over imp shouts and deffinately over imp cleave :s - obviously bloodcraze is much better than impi commanding shout, the only question really is about 60 attack power or about 350 health (with my warriors crap hp) every 6 seconds - i would prefer blood craze, it has no cooldown, so you can be on about 120 health regen every 2 sec all the time against other warriors/rogues which in the long run from a 2v2 perspective would save your healer some mana, and if you are a warrior with full pvp gear, with about 13-14k hp unbuffed you should deffinately go for blood craze

Even under a 35/23/3 build?

[frosty]

yes, 35/23/3 is the build i currently have on my warrior too, im with a shaman in 2v2, since the new season things have gone very well, have only lost one so far, rating is no 1610 with still some awful gear like 2 high warlord, blue outland rings and lunar crescent which is getting a little bad ^^

[Azain]

yes, 35/23/3 is the build i currently have on my warrior too, im with a shaman in 2v2, since the new season things have gone very well, have only lost one so far, rating is no 1610 with still some awful gear like 2 high warlord, blue outland rings and lunar crescent which is getting a little bad ^^

yea it does depend on whom you play with. BC and 3 in tact mastery (for spell reflect macro) are nice because shammys can be open to CC if totems are getting killed. also they have purge/WF which is a huge dps boost.

personally i run 33/28 because with a druid in 2v2 i get no damage buffs other than faerie fire. im not forced into this spec, but i prefer flurry and imp shouts because i have roughly 10 seconds to kill my target, or at least inflict a lot of damage. that 10 seconds of course being the double cyclone, feral charge, assuming that 1 is trinketed out of.

i can definitely see the use of blood craze in 2v2 or 3v3 as i said earlier, where the warrior is more likely to have it proc, but even still if they focus your shaman and just CC you, how is 65 ap static in a 3-5 min fight not better than constant BC procs when the fight is already over?

[Felix]

yea it does depend on whom you play with. BC and 3 in tact mastery (for spell reflect macro) are nice because shammys can be open to CC if totems are getting killed. also they have purge/WF which is a huge dps boost.

personally i run 33/28 because with a druid in 2v2 i get no damage buffs other than faerie fire. im not forced into this spec, but i prefer flurry and imp shouts because i have roughly 10 seconds to kill my target, or at least inflict a lot of damage. that 10 seconds of course being the double cyclone, feral charge, assuming that 1 is trinketed out of.

i can definitely see the use of blood craze in 2v2 or 3v3 as i said earlier, where the warrior is more likely to have it proc, but even still if they focus your shaman and just CC you, how is 65 ap static in a 3-5 min fight not better than constant BC procs when the fight is already over?

at the cost of CP yes, and CP itself is questionable, 3 points is only like 200 health or 57 AP? so depends yea i dunno, the first three tiers of flurry does have some options.

So did you decide which talent is better Azain?

[Azain]

no, i left it open as based on what you want to go, offense or defense, and what your team makeup is. to me they have roughly the same benefit. personally i dont have tac mastery for a spell reflect macro or blood craze, i go strictly for the offensive talents, ie more attack power and flurry. if you are 35/23/3 or 33/25/3 or have a weak or easily CC'd healer then yea get it. if not go for max damage.

to shift this conversation a little bit...how do you feel about both anger management and improved hamstring?

personally i haven't used either in favor of 5/5 2h spec, AM just doesn't seem on par with other 11 point talents for both warriors and other classes. imp hs is nice if you have a druid or shammy healing you, but with a priest or pally it seems rather pointless. also it can hurt you when fighting another warrior or class which gets buffed by root effects (2nd wind for us, not sure if any others even exist).

sorry to leave that up in the air and answer your question with another :/

[frosty]

i'd just like to add that tactical mastery actually comes very handy against resto druid/warrior or restio druid/warlock teams where their druid is constantly trying to cyclone and entangle me, if you are spell reflecting that every10 sec then you are taking away the druids main advantage over my healers advantages... especially when all druid/warrior try to do is, the warrior goes for my shaman while druid root + cyclones me

[Azain]

i'd just like to add that tactical mastery actually comes very handy against resto druid/warrior or restio druid/warlock teams where their druid is constantly trying to cyclone and entangle me, if you are spell reflecting that every10 sec then you are taking away the druids main advantage over my healers advantages... especially when all druid/warrior try to do is, the warrior goes for my shaman while druid root + cyclones me

if its druid/warrior you are on the warrior, and the druids CC each other, or your priest burns the druid etc etc, rarely do i get cycloned in 2v2 unless its so their druid can heal his warrior w/o damage, but thats only when it gets close at the end and im not going to waste all my rage to reflect given the chance of killing him.

with druid/lock most druids will not cyclone the warrior because it wastes damage on dots. if your immune for 10 seconds thats a huge waste of mana from the locks perspective, and with a lock you want to maximize your dps, and then catch the healer trying to split heals and keep both people up (generally a lock will dot up both, and then you get the fear/silence/dc to get both of them low, finish w/e one the druid doesn't heal first)

i agree completely with root. a warrior w/o a priest or pally is asking to be CC'd. however this falls upon your 2v2 partner to help you out. if its a priest, silence or fear and spam mana burn while the druid wastes his time rooting, when he does land it and procs 2nd wind, which is always nice, just immediately dispel. if its a shaman, melee and earthshock, grounding totems etc etc....a pally has freedom which can't be removed by druid warrior and takes some time against druid/lock. last healer is a druid, which of course they are going to simply lock each other, and you have to hope that your druid is better :P or that you can out damage the warrior to put some pressure on their druid.

[frosty]

if its druid/warrior you are on the warrior, and the druids CC each other, or your priest burns the druid etc etc, rarely do i get cycloned in 2v2 unless its so their druid can heal his warrior w/o damage, but thats only when it gets close at the end and im not going to waste all my rage to reflect given the chance of killing him.

im not with a druid, im with shaman, what normally happens vs warrior/druid is i try go for the warrior, if i see the druid out of bear form and in a position at which i can get at him i will go for it, but normally when im on the warrior, and the warrior is trying to kill my shaman then the druid is cycloning/rooting me - his warrior doesnt go for me

[Azain]

im not with a druid, im with shaman, what normally happens vs warrior/druid is i try go for the warrior, if i see the druid out of bear form and in a position at which i can get at him i will go for it, but normally when im on the warrior, and the warrior is trying to kill my shaman then the druid is cycloning/rooting me - his warrior doesnt go for me

ah yes, i wasn't aware you paired with a sham. that was actually my combo at the end of last season. in that case with WF, grounding, ES and purge you should win every game. druids rely on hots to heal and are not mana efficient at spamming HT.

so if your shammy can ground and ES the roots or cyclones, and you pressure the warrior, the druid is forced to heal instead of CC. heals that get instantly purged, and its GG for them.

how well do you handle warrior/pally and warrior/priest?

[frosty]

i handle warrior/paly very easily, paladins have nothing to regerate mana like shamans with totems and water shield, basically the shaman is behind a pole 99% of the time so he cant get intercepted at, and heals me when needed, so its just me and their warrior fighting all battle and the pallies mana goes down much faster than my shamans
warrior/priest - i have not came across that combo so far this season, but i would deffinately go for priest to prevent mana burns, and of course priest should die easier than a shaman, so i dont see why we should lose to that combo

[Azain]

i handle warrior/paly very easily, paladins have nothing to regerate mana like shamans with totems and water shield, basically the shaman is behind a pole 99% of the time so he cant get intercepted at, and heals me when needed, so its just me and their warrior fighting all battle and the pallies mana goes down much faster than my shamans
warrior/priest - i have not came across that combo so far this season, but i would deffinately go for priest to prevent mana burns, and of course priest should die easier than a shaman, so i dont see why we should lose to that combo

well aside from divine fervor or favor w/e that spell is and of course divine illumation, pallies also have wisdom :P so assuming your shammy stands behind a pole to los and their pally does the same, there is no reason a pally would ever run oom. aside of the fact he can toss 1-2 holy lights and then just drink...

warrior/healer vs warrior/healer fight should never end if its just two warriors fighting in the center. especially when you consider things like shield and disarm etc etc, i would venture to say that pally will not find himself very highly ranked in 2v2.

[frosty]

pallies also have wisdom

remember shammies can purge
and i shouldnt have said that he runs out of los all fight because half the time he does "annoy" their healer with rank 1 earth shock and to stop them from drinking trying everything to avoid warriors los, and then its normally me attacking the warrior, but the fight does end, in not too long, remember that we are both going to constantly have enrage on, so thats going to be an extra 25% damage all fight, it doesnt last too long, and another mistake that their warrior does quite often is faces his back to me in order to try and get to the healer, but it doesnt work so he is just really wasting time when he can be dpsing me

[pwnmaster]

If I'm not mistaken bloodcraze procs off crits? If so if you have a high res lvl like me it rarely procs so I have decided not to use it anymore.

[Stolen]

If I'm not mistaken bloodcraze procs off crits? If so if you have a high res lvl like me it rarely procs so I have decided not to use it anymore.

If a crit is removed with resilience blood craze (and enrage for that matter) will still proc

[pwnmaster]

If a crit is removed with resilience blood craze (and enrage for that matter) will still proc

Well I tried it for a couple weeks and it never seemed to proc that much so I got rid of it.