Define Welfare epics

[Wyattearpp]

I would define Welfare epics as any epic you do not have to raid for or that doesn't come from a profession. Although possesing these items doesn't make you a bad player by any means (Blizz put them in there so even the casual players could get some good gear) I think people in full Welfare Epics aren't all that great. Doesn't actually take too much skill to get them.

[Old Coot]

Term used to describe any powerful gear by people who resent other people being able to gear up to their level without having to play the game for two years pre BC raiding MC uphill, both ways, thru a snowstorm, like they did.

Get over it, its called a MMO and they rely on people to keep playing. Those people need more things to work for, or else, they stop playing.

Cheer up, it all starts again in 6 months or so, maybe there will be a new color to cry about.

[Turismon]

I would define Welfare epics as any epic you do not have to raid for or that doesn't come from a profession. Although possesing these items doesn't make you a bad player by any means (Blizz put them in there so even the casual players could get some good gear) I think people in full Welfare Epics aren't all that great. Doesn't actually take too much skill to get them.

And I don't think people in Full T6 are all that great either. Just shows that they spend way more time playing wow. Argument can go either way :P. I still don't see the problem, this "welfare" gear isn't the best gear in the game.

Wow, hate to see how much whining it would cause if Bliz put legendary items in PVP :P. Man I hope so, so I can see the cry fest emerse!

Pretty much sums it up.

[M4d2m0A]

I believe the term Welfare epics came out about around the time that season 2 came out. The major raiding guilds on our server were just finishing up SSC and TK and now all these fools are running around not even attuned for karazhan with full epics. [br][br]
Basically if you were in the group of people that completed every heroic, gruul's, mags, kara, ssc, and tk, before season 2 came out you can probably see why they are called welfare epics.

[Holmendis]

I would not be playing wow unless I thought I could hold my own in pvp without having to invest a lot of time getting geared.

I am not interested in raiding, just pvp. Welfare epics are made to keep me paying the bill. I would actually define a welfare epic as any epic weapon that I will ever purchase.

I think the issue is that pvp epics are not just pvp epics -- they do well (or very well? idk - i don't raid) in raids also. There is probably a small amount of wowers that think because they spent time raiding they should have an advantage in pvp but I doubt that is the case for many wowers. Most raiders raid and most pvpers pvp. All I want as a pvper is an even playing field -- only for pvp though.

You can certainly use pvp gear to raid and pve gear to pvp; you'll just be at a disadvantage

But still, having high end pvp gear is much better for raiding than blue gear / first half of kara / early badge reward. This is how the term welfare epic is coined in season 1-3: any new level 70 clad in green / blues can grind bg and lose 10 arena games to get high end pvp gears for all purpose use. S4 eliminate much of this. Some brutal / guardian gears are still "welfare", but majority now requires a rating. So now there is not as much incentive to use afk bots in BG to farm honor, as you actually need some skill in arena to purchase higher end pvp gears.

This should be the true definition of welfare epics - enable anti-afk bg bots, go to sleep and wake up to a new piece of epic.

[wriot]

As a raider, hardcore or not, you have to get a group of at least 10 people together who are good enough to actually *succeed* in killing raid bosses. Then, even if you kill that boss, you're not guaranteed to get the item you want, because of random drop tables. Then you also have to consider the 1-week lockout on all raids (except ZA), preventing even the amazingly good raiders, who can clear BT/Hyjal in 2-3 days, from getting any more gear per week than a single clear allows. So raiders put in time to:
1) organize a large group of people
2) teach them, through experience, to succeed in killing raid bosses
3) do it over and over each week until every person has gotten most of the gear they want
4) move on to higher level content, repeat from step 2 (or 1, if your guild has unstable membership).

Is the hardship of garnering qualified players reduced through the guild application process?
Does a guild application process only pertain to "hard core" raiding?
I imagine that once players meet the criteria for progressive raiding, then consquently there is less effort in teaching new encounters, or more specifically there are fewer barriers added on to the process beyond the intentional design.With a guild where members seek out participation under a predetermined "set of rules" the problems associated with "PUGs" should be eliminated.It seems to me the problem with epics and their welfare status stem from a very deficient guild building system.

As a player who relies on PvP to obtain their epics, there is a significantly reduced burden on that player to succeed. You, and all the friends you play with, will always earn honor/arena points, no matter how well or poorly you perform. You don't *have* to succeed to earn gear, and everyone of similar skill earns gear at the same rate, since there's absolutely no randomness factor in the acquisition of gear. Unlike raiding, with it's instance lockouts, the efforts of the really good PvPers are constantly rewarding them with more points to buy gear faster.

The battleground pvp game inherently is self-centered versus the pve game where group construction is critical. The pvp game attempts to distribute "reward" as fair as possible to it's large number of participants and the randomness of their grouping. If the pvp game offered randomness with gear progression would "real" competition be viable?

Competition in the pve game does not center around a guild vs another guild in combat for some goal but instead a guild vs an opponent that carries all of the advantages in the fight for about 85-95% of the time.

I think blizzard looked at the competition in bgpvp and recognized that high-end gear made high-end raiders overpowered and forced a lot of selfish individuals into group pve activity. I think blizzard wants the battleground to be unconquerable by a specific race/class so it grants each class an "opportunity" to fight a fair fight.

[Alubob]

wellfare = any trash drops from MH or any PVP honour gear

reason? cause pretty much any one can achieve this.. not so much on the MH stuff but a pally tank and a few healers and some random dps and u can farm MH trash

wellfare is essentially any gear obtained via little effort or skill

[deathrind]

This thread is full of QQ. Really why do people care how another person gets gear in a game, yes a game. If you like to PVE/Raid great go do it, if you PVP/Arena great go do it. But people really need to get over themselves about how people gear up. If you personally get upset or think you worked harder for your gear by farming Kara or Gruuls or any other place as opposed to a person who did BG's to get 100k+ HP's for gear you have bigger issues with life in general and really should take a hard look at yourself and why that is.

[Duffbeans]

I dislike raiding for the content I just want the gear to fuel my Ego

I belive your a scrub raider too.

Yeah, gear is pure ego, i don't know why people bother taking it, i mean they could clear SWP wearing blues and kara gear, right?

Seriously, what a fucking stupid comment.