SV raid spec

[Draka-X]

just wondering but what would you guys think of this spec?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...10253105330351

im also wondering what you guys would think about taking out to point in careful aim or rapid killing and put it into focused fire?

1) careful aim would be really good because if you think about it buffed up you would probably have about 500-600 int (in WOTLK not in TBC) which is a huge boost. so would this compared to focused fire be better? 2% dmg sounds ok... but wat about the bonus AP gained from your int

2) 2 min CD reduction on RF (rapid fire) is actually pretty awesome for a SV hunter because this means on a long boss fight you get to pull it off at least 3 times (personal experience) and with the master tactician and Expose Weakness talent up + this huge dmg boost.. you get a reaaaaaaaaal fair bit of dmg.
picture--> master tact + expose weakness proc--> pop RF --> rf expires --> pop readiness--> pop RF--> wait 3 mins for RF again

so what do you guys think?

[Rainediam]

umm... that's a marks build...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

I think that would work pretty well for survival. That or move the points from focused fire to go for the throat maybe. but the 2% is a significant amount. It's hard to say now until you choose a pet and what have you. For example. as a survival hunter with go for the throat your pet's focus dump will never go away since you crit so much. So in my opinion those two talents are kind of a toss up until we really see how hunters preform at 80.

[Draka-X]

oh snap i posted the wrong talent build i meant this :
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=cxbZ0eVZec0w0hfVccxzAo

if anyone could help me theory craft whether 3 RFs with EW and MT on or a 2% overall increase would be better?

also in term of go for the throat... well im not sure about this one because in terms of pets and raiding im a real noob to that. from my own personal experience my pets tend to die like 4 secs into a boss fight and i also didnt think that the dmg it was doing was that great.. or mayb its just me? or i had a shit pet? anyway pets hav more survivability in WOTLK seeing how avoidance = 75% less dmg from AoE spells (finally!!)
mainly im stuck between focused fire or rapid killing

any thoughts?

[player404]

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=cxb...zMxoZec0w0hfVz

This is the best personal DPS raiding spec imo.
Didn't know if it's better to put the points in focused fire or piercing shots, so i guessed.
Feel free to modify.

[Guran]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

That would be mine
Simply keep up Serpent Sting and once the boss hits 30% fit in 2 Kill Shots every 15 sec, which works perfectly in a cycle. (sting, KS, 4xSteady, KS, 3xSteady, repeat)

[Zeodragon]

sur raiding
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

this s the best tree i think it is set to crt base only
u need this cuz now SV takes away the job from SP ( shadow priest) u need to keep crting that is the way to be the best meber and a raid and do high dps

[Cloudz]

sur raiding
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

this s the best tree i think it is set to crt base only
u need this cuz now SV takes away the job from SP ( shadow priest) u need to keep crting that is the way to be the best meber and a raid and do high dps

Is your keyboard missing some letters? O_o

[Zeodragon]

Is your keyboard missing some letters? O_o

idk lol not at home using my friend computer and his keyboard sucks

[Guran]

The chances that point of no escape works on bosses are minimal (and if it does, I don't know if the extra raid dps will make up for the crappy dps survival will do running back and forth). Entrapment is close to useless for raiding (and actually can be a problem since it can stagger inc AoE pack pickup which either wastes time, or gives you dead AoErs.) Clever traps is useless, trap mastery 1/2 is more than enough. There is no reason not to get +3% hit, it is points spared from gear. Resourcefulness? You got to be kidding me.

I'd go for this initially with several points being flexible:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
Wyvern Sting and Potent Venom may be better spent in Improved Aspect of the Hawk. Full Master tactician is likely not needed also. Focused Fire could probably be better. As for improved feign death, well you need the points to break tier and honestly if there is predictable heavy AoE burst (or unavoidable random target damage that boss mods can warn you about) a second or two out of dps for a needed threat clear and a very decent amount of damage reduction sounds useful.

You forgot GftT and took a solo talent instead. what's up with that? O_o

[Kimmuriel]

I'd run with this:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...10000000000000

I'll explain some of my choices as best i can- it looks to many to be geared more for instances/PvP but there are reasons why it should hold up in raids too.

Focused Aim: The majority of DPS casters have this somewhere in their tree in some form. It is incredibly useful for fluid DPS and to avoid disruption to a fast rotation.

Careful aim: Like the above poster this is ridiculously good looking for a 2nd tier talent - Dreanic wisdom pots- arcane brilliance etc these BoK effects these will all directly effect our RAP. At the moment i have 294 Int at 70, thats more RAP to me than my EW (expose weakness) or TSA. (present or future variant). will be higher in wrath i imagine.

Rapid Fire: Now with haste effects popping up all over the gear that ive seen thus far in wrath + the removal of clipping of auto shots from steady haste is going to be more beneficial. Rapid fire is already ridiculously good- coupled with the extra pts you can spend you can have readiness too for double the length of time.

I can see alot of ppl conscerned already about the threat gen of 2 rapid fires in quick succession. My advice is to hold off on the worry for now as slav and tranquil air totem are being removed, Warrior's def stance gets +45% threat increase - all signs that the way characters gen threat is being reviewed. So i don't think threat will be too much of an issue in this.

FD: If it does become an issue 1 pt in FD has always been enough to improve the the reduction in resists to a satisfactory amount.

GFtT: Go for the Throat- with so much crit and the changes to pets, 1 pt in this should be enough to provide ample focus for either a DPS pet or utility pet.

Aimed shot: 2.5 sec cast down from 3 + MS effect that works on bosses + sniping adds dmg modifier to it + haste effects etc. This shot is effected by haste - haste is no longer going to be an issue of min maxing for a hunter to avoid shot rotation disruption so i'm up for looking at a way of bringing it into my rotation at some point if haste effects work. if not its still a great openr and threat generator for MD's

Scatter shot: I used to not bother with it for DPS raid builds but there have been times when i've been called upon to keep a trash mob at bay for a short while- handy if a mage DC's as it allows you to run up and trap alot easier. Its just a great all purpose shot tbh.

Entrapment + Clever traps maxed: These are handy fillers. An above poster explained how entrapment can be detrimental to AoE'rs and can cause problems. I won't argue with that as i am happy to agree however as a filler talent that CAN assist in 5mans and PvP i'd take it over the wing clip/ savage strikes option as a filler to open up the higher tiers. Might be personal preference here as i genrally avoid using AoE traps and slows on AoE fights as a rule and instead focus fire the main trgt. The choice to not use a frost trap is the bright white is annoying to some folks and mobs tend to die quick in AoE anyways so a slow is not doing a great deal.

The clever traps is for when i am called upon to trap on the odd occassion. Remember Moroes? when everyone was just starting kara i remember being given an add to trap- this talent coupled with readiness kept my blue/green geared ass safe in that fight by making it far easier to trap and kite if need be. Let me live another day to parade round in some T6.

Detterance: is a life saver - we should never have aggro in the first place agreed but ive used this on fights like Blood boil and some trsh that resist traps to keep them busy and to avoid those fatal blows. Its a good allrounder that just gets better for the same number of talent pts.

Trap mastery: 1/2 is good enough to trap lvl 73 mobs majority of the time 2/2 is not really needed.

Wyvern sting + potent venom: My personal choice here as i love Wyvern sting. It's 12 secs but again you have readiness so its a situational CC that if needed can be extended with the use of readiness. The potent venom choice is down to reading the talent. If i'm correct and reading it right it will INCREASE MY DAMAGE DONE TO THE TARGET BY 3% (i initially read it as increase the dmg of my wyvern sting and serpent sting but re-reading i think this is wrong).

So to explain that a bit better- whilst under the effect of either your wyvern sting or Serpent sting you deal 3% more damage to the target.- That to me seems quite nice to have tbh.

Sniper training: totally awesome and with the point in aimed shot thats 1 more additional shot that will cause 6% more dmg past 30 yrds.

Hunting party: is really impressive synergy with a feral druid- Imp leader of the pack gives us 5% more crit and when we crit with LotP on us we heal - whilst in return we now give the feral druid more energy/rage. some folks look at this and berak down the Mp5 to less than 20- but for a whole grp- and seeing as its not just mana but all types of abilty bars - its a bonus that i'd be keen to take with me.

I left out Explosive shot as although it looks alot like a beefy multi shot, I've always been skeptical about a ranged AoE. Mainly because if im shooting from 30+ yrds away and grab aggro (rarely happen with talent choices and being careful BUT never say never) with an AoE - everyone up close to the mobs AoEing has to move. It's also situational, the 5yrds from trgt is handy around CC if you wanted to live dangerously but again i think Explosive shot is something i can live without for now.

The reasons for not speccing into Master tac. I was specced into it a while back. I saw it up on a regular basis in current WoW but for the points i just didn't see it being worth it in the end. My crit is very high fully raid buffed anyways. Unbuffed i'm sitting on 35.99% Crit- add to that possible buffs like GotW (agilty) pots, scrolls, food + kings + GoA totem i hit 50% quite often so crit really shouldnt be an issue i don't think. atleast not to warrant 5/5 master tac.

Hopefully i've gone some ways to explaining the method in my madness and the selection of my chosen talents- some are self explaantory so havent been explained. The title of this post is SV raid spec and as such its in keeping with what i like most about the tree.

Quick shots and Focused fire- whilst amazing talents and good to have are, in my opinion, down played a bit now with the introduction of more haste items, ammo dmg added to steady and clipping removed from steady. Whilst they do provide significant DPS increases- i reckon with my build and appropriate gearing i could equal the out put of a similar build with those talents whilst buffing my party better.

Thanks for finding time to read this post. Much appreciated - feed back is welcome.

[Kimmuriel]

TYVM - didnt consider that aspect of Explosive shot thank you. may be a very good reason to do away with scatter ty.

[Guran]

@Kimmuriel: just wonna say that now with the increase in proc rate for Master Tactician, it gives you just under 6% crit (5.97% to be exact) on average with a 2.8 bow and no haste increases (and that's including a Serpent Sting every 10 sec not proccing it, as I wasn't sure)
With the new clipping changes, WF totem and so on, I would say it can go up even further, basicly being far better then Lethal Shots would be.
Personally, I'ld change Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire to imp. Hunter's Mark. Mostly because you will still only use Aimed Shot as an opener only and well, I just have the habit of forgetting Rapid Fire on trash, so imp mark helps my DPS more there as well :P

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
That's my build, might swap a talent or 2 around in the coming week

And the 7 BM off-spec is impossible as Survival simply because you want atleast 14 in Marksman and that would leave you capped at 50 for Survival.

As a side-note: The 45% extra threat for Warriors was always there, but it used to be 30% base and 15% talented, now it's just all base.

[thunderdome]

I thought it was +10% base and +15% talented before

[Guran]

oh snap i posted the wrong talent build i meant this :
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=cxbZ0eVZec0w0hfVccxzAo

if anyone could help me theory craft whether 3 RFs with EW and MT on or a 2% overall increase would be better?

also in term of go for the throat... well im not sure about this one because in terms of pets and raiding im a real noob to that. from my own personal experience my pets tend to die like 4 secs into a boss fight and i also didnt think that the dmg it was doing was that great.. or mayb its just me? or i had a shit pet? anyway pets hav more survivability in WOTLK seeing how avoidance = 75% less dmg from AoE spells (finally!!)
mainly im stuck between focused fire or rapid killing

any thoughts?

As for pets goes: DPS pets will be able to heal themselves while hitting a boss (I believe a 20% chance to gain 5% of their max hp), which, on top of judgement of light (which will be castable from 30y and will give a holy pala 10% haste, which makes up for the GCD) and the addition of more heals that heal anyone in raid that needs it (including pets) will keep him alive pretty well.
As for his DPS goes: ~10-15% of your total depending on his focus dump and other abilities.

As for the talent build goes:
* Focused Fire should overall give you more, or atleast the same DPS as Rapid Killing Talent and works in all scenarios (solo, trash where you forget RF, ...)
* 1 point in GftT should give your pet a major DPS boost, worth about 2-3% of your total DPS. Worth giving up 1 point in Focused Fire imo.
* AoE'ers hate Entrapment, it breaks apart groups. You need mobs to stick together for Explosive Shot as well, so don't nerf your own AoE dmg. Move it to Savage Strikes or Deflection imo.
* Deterrence can save your ass pretty often, especially on bosses with random target fixations.
* Improved Feign Death, doesn't only makes the resist chance go from 5% to 1%, but also saves you from dying from AoE while the raid is whiping. Considering pets will get an extra rank of Avoidance, as well as the health return they put in for melee, I fear for quite some AoE in WLK
* Wyvern Sting + Potent Venom; I'm not sure how it stand against Focused Fire & imp AotH talents in terms of DPS, I would have to test that one first, but atm I'm more of a Viper-guy.

So with above suggestions, you'ld end up with a build like this:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=cxo...e0broGfVccxzAo

Looks a bit weird at the start, but if it works, who cares? :P

[Spl4sh3r]

umm... that's a marks build...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

I think that would work pretty well for survival. That or move the points from focused fire to go for the throat maybe. but the 2% is a significant amount. It's hard to say now until you choose a pet and what have you. For example. as a survival hunter with go for the throat your pet's focus dump will never go away since you crit so much. So in my opinion those two talents are kind of a toss up until we really see how hunters preform at 80.

Specc is completely off the way of the Survival hunter....I mean why choose Focused Fire or Master Tactician. And you get more dmg% from Potent Venom (3%) and Master Tactician is really a waste of talent. At the moment I got around 40% crit raid buffed. And I feel like having more then 35% won't give you more crits just a higher number :P

I would go for something like this
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

Or slightly changed for a better PvP ability
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

[Guran]

The 3% dmg on Serpent Sting is worth it.

I did a comparing with highest ranks of both Steady Shot and Serpent Sting in the expansion using my current gear (2.6k AP against target including everything, 40% crit including MT)

Result:
Steady Shot: 2047,47 damage each hit
Serpent Sting: 1543,5 damage each 15 sec.
That's 504 damage lost every 15 seconds to keep Serpent up.
As a result I get atleast:
Steady Shot: 9 times 61,42 damage
Serpent Sting: 46,31 extra damage
Total damage gained: 599 damage
Win of 95 damage or 6 DPS

Granted, it's not much, but that's excluding armor on the mob, or any Nature damge increasing abilities such as a shadow priest, a boomkin, an Enhancement Shaman (while the SS debuff is up ofc), ... and not counting in the fact that at 30% you're using Kill Shot, which has even higher average damage.
So I'ld say it's not exactly amazing, but it is better.
(Note: Steady Shot scales far better with AP and also scales with weapon dmg and ammo, so the further you will go in raids the less benefit this talent will give you)

The 10-15% is what my pet is now. He usually is around this number depending on what group I'm in and what buffs I have on. But with pet's white hits, Claw & Kill Command added up that's what shows on my SW Stats personal dmg chart.

As for GftT goes, 1 point in it means your pet will be able to do 1 Claw/Bite/whatever everytime you crit, which I think costs 25 as well in WLK (but I might be wrong). With an average damage of around 150, you can easily check the DPS:
Assume an average 15 attacks that can crit every 15 seconds (6 auto-shots + 9 steady/kill shots). That's 1 attack per second that can crit. With a 25% crit rate, that's 37.5 DPS from GftT. With a 40% crit rate that's 60 DPS. That's including MT ofcourse.
If you max out GftT you will make it far more difficult as you will constantly be topping off his focus bar, but say around 70-100 DPS with Focus to spare for other abilities.

Edit 1:
Serpent Sting with Shadow Priest(5%) and Boomkin(6%) would get almost 200 damage increase, meaning the difference with my current gear would become 329,56 damage between steady and serpent and a damage gain from the talent of 604,36 which results in a 18 DPS gain. That's with T5-level gear. A starting raider would see more gain from this due to the Serpent Sting damage being closer to Steady Shot.

Edit 2: Just 3 things for Spl4sh3r:
1) Entrapment + Explosive Shot. One only works on close groups, the other one breaks close groups apart. Think about it.
2) Master Tactician in the expansion will give around 6% crit with a 2.80 speed weapon, that's 20% more effective then what you get from Lethal Shots. But a base of around 35% raid buffed is indeed a pretty good goal to aim for. It would give you 41% with MT, which is more then enough to make AP start scaling really nice. Problem is, you need agi for EW, which gives both :P
3) Potent Venom does not give you 3% DPS, it varies depending on your AP scaling, the armor of the mob and so on. On mobs with high (20ish%) armor just Serpent Sting along is better, on 0 armor mobs it gives you the full 18 DPS at the loss of a possible crit.

[Draka-X]

sur raiding
http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

this s the best tree i think it is set to crt base only
u need this cuz now SV takes away the job from SP ( shadow priest) u need to keep crting that is the way to be the best meber and a raid and do high dps

point of no escape is useless in raids fyi.

potent venom is also a pretty crap skill if u think about it. reduce serpent sting cost by 30% and u do 3% more dmg with serpent sting on... if u consider all the factors like the mana cost (even reduced..its still a huge waste of mana and your 8 points wasted on point of no escape and Potent Venom could go to..

actually some of the talents you have are really weird, cos i wouldnt really get entrapment or resourcefulness.. also,trap mastery is now known as clever traps and trap mastery was removed lol..

imp feign death is more of a PvP skill than a PvE skill to me if you ask me. if yur in a dungeon or raid and u gain aggro or sudden AoE or w/e occurs im sure as hell not going to be staying FDed on the spot especially if its an AoE like blizzard.. i would be running my ass off potting and bandaging (if i get no heals).. i hav faith that FD wont get resisted

thanks for all those who game me suggestions it was actually really helpful/insightful..

thanks all

[Trizade]

This is something i would go for. 2/2 Imp FD reasoning being clever traps is less likely to find a useage. If you know large raid AOE damage is going to hit you, 30% reduced damage and an agro reset could be highly handy. An extra 2% damage 20% crit on KC -> another 110 AP or so.

[Guran]

This is something i would go for. 2/2 Imp FD reasoning being clever traps is less likely to find a useage. If you know large raid AOE damage is going to hit you, 30% reduced damage and an agro reset could be highly handy. An extra 2% damage 20% crit on KC -> another 110 AP or so.

If you only plan on using imp FD for oncoming AoE, why not get Deterrence then?
And 2/3rd of your Int is not 110 AP, it's more like 300-400
And last but not least: Entrapment + Explosive Shot. They don't mix.

[Trizade]

If you only plan on using imp FD for oncoming AoE, why not get Deterrence then?

Because a 30 second cooldown -> a 3 minute one where boss abilities are far more consistant. Detterance would be useful for say Bloodboil currently, but thats it.

And 2/3rd of your Int is not 110 AP, it's more like 300-400

It's 1/3 actually and i may be wrong but i don't see hunters getting 600-700 int in wotlk at level 80 ~ early stages ^^. With max T6 i have around 275 currently, and level 77 items have similar stats.

And last but not least: Entrapment + Explosive Shot. They don't mix.

Personally i'm just looking for ways to improve DPS. Both deflection + imp wing clip don't do that, rethinking now perhapps savage strike would be a best bet either way thier still fairly usesless.