Judgement of Command and Heart of the Crusader

[Dwarfmantang]

Does Heart of the crusader work with things like Command or Blood or is it only with Judgements that give debuffs?

[Rawberry]

Does Heart of the crusader work with things like Command or Blood or is it only with Judgements that give debuffs?

Debuff Judgements.

[Xylia]

but aren't all the new judgements debuffs now anyway, so it will be good for pvp then extra 3% crit on top of whatever you use and still get damage from command/blood whatever

and new eye for an eye will benefit from that nicely too

[Rawberry]

but aren't all the new judgements debuffs now anyway, so it will be good for pvp then extra 3% crit on top of whatever you use and still get damage from command/blood whatever

and new eye for an eye will benefit from that nicely too

No, not all Judgements are debuffs. Judgement of Command, of the Martyr and Blood are direct damage Judgements, they do not apply a lasting debuff as for example Judgement of Justice does.

Heart of the Crusader only works with the following Judgements:

- Judgement of Justice
- Wisdom
- Light

and new eye for an eye will benefit from that nicely too

Eye for an Eye does not apply any sort of debuff. It is a direct damage effect, and thus Heart of the Crusader does not come into the equasion.

[Xylia]

i thought they added only those 3 judgements now and still does damage of your seal? so what now we have 5 judgements for each seal on our attack bar instead of 1 judgement for all?

[kerbulance]

don't you have to judge wisdom/light/justice debuff to even judge any of the damage seals???

[Samiel]

Rawberry likes to confuse the heck out of people I think.

There are three new Judgement Spells in WotL

Judgement of Justice
Judgement of Light
Judgement of Wisdom

However, you can *still* follow the old mechanics of putting up a seal, and judging it, using the old Judgement system.

What Rawberry is doing, is trying to confuse the hell out of people, by talking about things in a convoluted way I'm guessing?

[Guran]

Rawberry likes to confuse the heck out of people I think.

There are three new Judgement Spells in WotL

Judgement of Justice
Judgement of Light
Judgement of Wisdom

However, you can *still* follow the old mechanics of putting up a seal, and judging it, using the old Judgement system.

What Rawberry is doing, is trying to confuse the hell out of people, by talking about things in a convoluted way I'm guessing?

Rawberry is correct. The talent only works on Judgements giving debuffs.
Currently, that's all Judgement spells, but not the extra judgement effect from Seals.
In other words, the talent will grant it's effect whenever you have either of the three Judgement debuffs on your target. Since all the seals only do extra damage when you judge, it doesn't work on 'judging a seal'

[Rawberry]

Don't worry Ugrateful, Judgements have not been placed on a GCD (yet) .

[Biral]

It's to my understanding that they have replaced the skill "Judgement" with the triple team of "Judgement of Justice", "Judgement of Wisdom", and "Judgement of Light".

This leaves room for three Paladins in a raid group applying Judgements and allows the same amount of debuff slots to be assigned to any raid with more than three Paladins, meaning that bringing more than three would be more of a hamper than a help, to both the raider and the raid.

Seals no longer being consumed on a Judgement is a godsend and makes sense given the mana cost increase and duration increase of the Seals.

I'm still concerned about the mana regen though...

[Adrianna]

Don't worry Ugrateful, Judgements have not been placed on a GCD (yet) .

Have you not been playing recently Rawberry? Judgements are now on the GCD as of the most recent build.

[Samiel]

Really? Because when I logged in yesterday, they weren't.

Seals however are

[Adrianna]

I just logged in before I posted to be sure. Cast a seal, you must wait for GCD to judge. Judge, you must wait for GCD to do anything else.

Edit // I tested AGAIN just now. Judgements are on the GCD.

[Rawberry]

*Gasp*

I'm updating my beta build at the moment as I had not played since last Tuesday. And because I had not read about a change in the patchnotes regarding the Judgement mechanic I assumed that it had not changed.


I have mixed feelings at the moment regarding the situation. It's a huge change no doubt, but we now have 2 minute seals and ofcourse they do not get removed anymore when we Judge. It's a tradeoff really, and I'd rather have the latter.

I'll post again whenever the Blizzard Downloader feels like finishing my download.

[Rawberry]

Oh and Ugrateful, 2 disappointing changes after all the major improvements our class the Retribution tree has had? I certainly won't loose any sleep over it.

[Rawberry]

That's how i see it anyways. The only feeling i have on what i feel are moronic changes like these is. Do we have to do a damn trade off for every small meaningless buff you give us Blizz ? Seriously seals being on 2 mins isn't all that big of deal with the mana changes to soc and other seals.

I do agree with you to some level, however the biggest change in the Seal mechanic is that they do not get removed after casting our Judgement which saved on alot of GCD in the long run.

I'll have a go at playing and see how it turns out.


Blizzard Downloader at 27%, 4 hours remaining. FTW?

[Samiel]

I am not sure what to say Ungrateful.

You came of as a sober and thoughtful person earlier this week, when it was all goodness, and now you're showing that you are having troubles with small things that really have no major impact on the class as a whole.

Judgement on GCD, is not a big deal, we still have the capability to do the same burst as before, well more actually. (More burst actually.) CS, Autoswing, SoComm proc, DS/Stun, Judgement....

What I want to know, is if GCD triggered for Judgement when OTHER spells are used, if it isn't, then nothing has changed.

[Whitcher]

Because TBC was so heavily PVP oriented, Blizzard is getting back to the PVE aspect in WotLK. Two minute seals allows for a lot better mana efficiency and not having to reactivate the seal after judging also extends our mana usage. The 1.5 second gcd is a small price to pay for such a needed buff.

[Rawberry]

Ugrateful, maybe you should stop looking at the beta patchnotes. And this is well ment advice.

You are way too wound up on the matter, ranting and raving on every little change that affects the Paladin class in a negative way totally overlooking the great changes we are currently heading towards.

Changes will happen, good and bad. All that matters is that, at the moment (with the current beta build) our beloved Paladin class is in a much better state than it has been in the last 4 years.


Let it go mate.

[Samiel]

As an aside, If you want to post feedback, that Blizzard will watch, post on their Beta forum boards.

Replynig to feedback on a forum, they do not, read, in a situation where all you can see are numbers, without hands on experience, is like the Colorblind Person picking a favorite color. You can't truly appreciate and see it as what it is, until you've experienced it.