Death strike vs obliterate and blood strike vs heart strike

[Aeline]

So I've been paying close attention to the Blood tree since the talent calculators were released. I was planning to spec blood for end game pve dps. At first I was fine with using Obliterate because I know it does a lot of damage. But with the new talent changes, it seems like they are trying to switch us over to Death Strike, just because its a healing mechanic. I'm pretty sure Death Strike doesn't do quite as much damage as Obliterate but I could be wrong. They have yet to change the Abomination Strength talent so I know I still want to use Obliterate, but now that Blood Worms are a proc off Death Strike, and Mograine's Might now affects Death Strike instead of Obliterate, I'm having second thoughts about my rotation.

My other concern, which deals with Blood Strike and Heart Strike, is I don't know which one to use. Heart Strike does about the exact same thing as Blood Strike, just with higher numbers, and the haste nullifyer speaks for itself. The only reason I am considering using Blood Strike is because of the Sudden Doom talent. Double damage on Death Coil seems like a sweet deal to me, especially if that crit, it could probably be compared to a Destro lock. Just... a whole 5 talent points for only a 20% chance? Could use some buffing, but still useful. All I want to know is, would it be more dps to use the higher hitting heart strike, or the lower hitting blood strike with a chance for sudden doom?

If anyone could help fix up a rotation that gets benefiets from all of these abilities that would be great, but right now I am jsut debating myself left and right.

[Kanana]

Heart Strike will also proc Sudden Doom, so it's a complete replacement for blood strike.

[Aeline]

Heart Strike will also proc Sudden Doom, so it's a complete replacement for blood strike.

Does it? Didn't catch that on the tooltip anywhere, but if thats true then it solves one of my problems : )

[Kanana]

Yeah, the tooltip hasn't been updated, but a blue replied somewhere saying Heart Strike will proc Sudden Doom.

[Bloodmilk]

Yea a blood DK will be using plague strike, heart strike, and obliterate for damage or death strike for health if you need it.

The only thing I don't understand is why blood strike is on the talent Might of Mograine. It's the same tier as Heart Strike, so anyone who gets that talent won't be using blood strike anymore.

[Donnicton]

Yea a blood DK will be using plague strike, heart strike, and obliterate for damage or death strike for health if you need it.

The only thing I don't understand is why blood strike is on the talent Might of Mograine. It's the same tier as Heart Strike, so anyone who gets that talent won't be using blood strike anymore.

*maybe* obliterate. with the new death rune mastery, death strike is looking more and more useful.

dilemma is now obliterate doesn't receive a critical damage bonus without going deep deep frost. which kinda devalues the fact that it can reach a +17% crit chance modifier.

although death strike can reach 14% with dark conviction, annihilation, and vicious strikes, you have to be a really really odd spec for that, so for all intents and purposes you'll typically have +11% with dark conviction and vicious strikes. as well, death strike can receive a whopping +90% crit damage bonus on might of mograine and vicious strikes. meanwhile annihilation still gives you a 10% chance to lose all of the diseases on the target even with it(which, if you've ever played a class that has clearcasting, 10% can still be a lot). on top of that, with death rune mastery, when the runes activate again, they'll be death runes.

i haven't heard too many details on what death strike does yet beyond unsubstantiated rumors of weapon damage + healing based on disease count, but unless it has a cooldown it can potentially be competitive to obliterate in utility, damage, and overall function(assuming the right spec of course).


edit: also, yeah, forgot to mention the blood worms on death strike.

[klineshrike]

So I was wondering where the bigger numbers on Heart Strike come from? Are there new ranks missing or am I failing to see something, because its the same % of damage and a lower addition from diseases..

[Shido]

So I was wondering where the bigger numbers on Heart Strike come from? Are there new ranks missing or am I failing to see something, because its the same % of damage and a lower addition from diseases..

if i remember blizzard saying that both HS & PS have higher training lvls if you have points in those talents.

[Donnicton]

if i remember blizzard saying that both HS & PS have higher training lvls if you have points in those talents.

Yep, that's just rank 1, which has an equivalent level of 50 given a 41 point talent. But as it catches up, Heart Strike will do more damage than Blood Strike.

It's meant to be a total replacement of the ability, like with Hemo and Sinister Strike, or Claw and Mangle.

[Aeline]

Hmm, I hadn't taken the 90% bonus crit damage on Death Strike into account. Yeah that sort of sways my descision. And the blood worms will be more damage and utility in raids, I'm assuming they hit for over 100 but no more than 200 at level 80, which is a pretty big boost to dps depending on how many you get. Death Strike vs. Obliterate will have to be something I test out myself, but for now I am leaning towards Death Strike. I will have to have a ton of crit if I want to get good damage out of it though, because if it doesn't crit, it doesn't do enough damage to be worth using over Obliterate.

In any case though, I may have to fit Obliteration somewhere into my rotation just because of Abomination Strength.

[Arkwel]

Pretty sure Heart Strike doesn't replace blood strike.

At rank 1, Blood Strike does 60% weapon dmg + 109 for every disease effect on target, and it's instant.
Heart Strike rank 1 does 100% weapon dmg and lowers targets max hp by 20%, on Next weapon swing.

I would rather you Blood Strike...

[somedude]

Pretty sure Heart Strike doesn't replace blood strike.

At rank 1, Blood Strike does 60% weapon dmg + 109 for every disease effect on target, and it's instant.
Heart Strike rank 1 does 100% weapon dmg and lowers targets max hp by 20%, on Next weapon swing.

I would rather you Blood Strike...

check out the new talent trees they changed heart stike

[Donnicton]

Pretty sure Heart Strike doesn't replace blood strike.

At rank 1, Blood Strike does 60% weapon dmg + 109 for every disease effect on target, and it's instant.
Heart Strike rank 1 does 100% weapon dmg and lowers targets max hp by 20%, on Next weapon swing.

I would rather you Blood Strike...

......Have you even been paying attention to the beta changes?