Are Human rogues really so superior?

[lexonio]

This voting sucks... Always 50:50...
Farming s2 for human now, btw

[Mezz]

ok... now... uhm... srsly...W T F ?

Stay Undead - 80 (50%)
Reroll human - 80 (50%)

How the fukk did you guise manage THAT?

This voting sucks... Always 50:50...
Farming s2 for human now, btw

gj gj :3

[georgie123]

humans look so awkward running and undeads are ugly...
roll GNOME!
/disucss
(no honetsly, have u ever considered other alliance races? Stoneform is not bad, not bad at all...)

[Lesane]

humans look so awkward running and undeads are ugly...
roll GNOME!
/disucss
(no honetsly, have u ever considered other alliance races? Stoneform is not bad, not bad at all...)

I guess he finds racials more important than looks if he makes this topic, don't you think? And going from human to dwarf is not exactly an upgrade either looks or racial wise imho :P

[skyclops]

Really surprised no one put troll rogues

Trolls

Starting Attributes
Strength 22
Agility 25
Stamina 22
Intelligence 16
Spirit 21


Berserking - active
Increases your attack speed by 10% to 30%. At full health the speed increase is 10% with a greater effect up to 30% if you are badly hurt when you activate Berserking. Lasts 10 sec. 3 min cooldown Cost 10 Energy
Berserking has gone through a lot of changes, and to date is the only ability that requires rage/mana/energy. While the cost can be cumbersome, I think most will agree the current form of Berserk is better than its older forms. While its not the most amazing ability for PvP, it does give you awesome potential for Raid DPS. Believe it or not most of our PvE damage comes from auto-attack swings, so a speed boost to that actually does more than youd think. I think its also important to note that it can be combined with Slice and Dice to be a truly lethal ability.


Regeneration - passive
10% health regen bonus, 10% active in combat
This is one of the better passive traits a Rogue can have since it cuts downtime but more importantly gives added survivability in combat. Troll Rogues are the only race that can gain health in combat without heals/potions.

Formula for the Rogue:
1 spi = .5 hp / 2 seconds out of combat

Formula for the Troll Rogue:
1 spi = .55 hp / 2 seconds out of combat
1 spi = .055 hp / 2 seconds during combat


Beast Slaying - passive
5% damage bonus to Beasts
Considering that more than 25% of the things you fight in your WoW career will be considered beast this is actually a nice damage bonus. Not very useful for PvP, but can really move you along through PvE grinding nicely.


Throwing Specialization - passive
+5 to Bows and Throwing Weapon skills
Makes using a Bow or Thrown weapon a bit more reliable, especially nice for pulling or hitting runners. Provides a nice and consistent application to PvP and PvE.

Summary: The Troll race lends itself nicely to PvE with a damage boost to the most frequent mobs. Not to mention having the highest theoretical DPS in end game Raid Instances thanks to Berserking. Add Regeneration and throwing specialization on top of it, and Trolls are arguably the best Grinding/Raid race

[lexonio]

Yeh. Nice theorycraft. But I was talking about... ehm... pvp

[Tribu]

ut you dont need the perception in pve tho will can still take some fear effects of if feared in pve... as the game is not only pvp id stay Undead and yur example was kinda limited to Arena only not to whole game

[blackwater]

Human is far superior in arena obviously.

Theres a warrior/rogue dps 2's team over 2300 rating, they only got there because that are both human, that says it all.

[craigyboy]

A good rogue or druid will very very rarely be seen from perception for the 20 seconds it lasts if they are unpredictable and random.

[Deleted]

A good rogue or druid will very very rarely be seen from perception for the 20 seconds it lasts if they are unpredictable and random.

No matter how random they try to be, it's still purely about luck.

[Skalu]

that's unfortunately wrong craigy, have you ever been the victim of what we call perception rush ?

the human rogue rush towards the front entrance, mounted, percept 20 yards before and stealth, and now, you are fucked... can't REALLY do something.

of course pre-vanish, stay back in a corner, etc... CAN work, but that's not more reliable than finding stealthies with percept, for sure...

and well, concerning a resto gear without imp stealth, common... you even don't need percept to spot him, i sadly know what i am talking about

[L2theBR]

Double DPS, human all the way, it is all about openers. Rogue/Healer, WotF is far superior to perception. My main is a human rogue, he has double 4 piece T6/Arena gear and I'm stuck atm at about 2050. My undead rogue, that I made sometime back with my same arena partner, however *same make-up* I was able to hit 2200 very easily. WotF is way more clutch and game winner then getting a single opener. Most teams can dodge perception anyway if they are any good. A *good* team will be able to rebound from it very easily. TBQH I would rather have stoneform (dwarf racial) over perception. Allows you to reset the fight against warriors/other rogues to let your healer drink. In 3s or 5s, again WotF is WAAAY better then any of these other racials.

People who QQ saying if I had perception I would be XXXX (insert stupid high rating here) and are dwarf/undead, are completely wrong, and shouldn't be PvPing at all. If you are NE, then you can QQ that you would be *slightly* high, maybe another 150 points if that. Gnomes can claim that too, but escape artist *can* be pretty clutch, but again it isn't that great.

[wortuzalian]

By the time he gets to 70 and decently geared, WotLK will be out, priests will get 10s sleep in addition to fear, rogues and druids may not be AS prominent in arena, and he'll regret putting all the work into another rogue just to be on the wrong side of battlegrounds.

[greenmasheen]

i have a simple answer to this, NERF HUMANS :-*

[Harrower]

I have exactly same dilemma. I have two rogues - undead and human. And I'm confused about which should I stay. My focus will be on PvP, and yes, arenas are most part of PvP. Of course I will also do some instances too.



Undead:

+ WotF, short cooldown ability which break fear, charm and sleep. So it works against Warlocks, Priests (except Shadow Priest), Warriors and Surv. Hunters. So trinket can be saved to remove these effects again or against long duration stun, blind.
+ Cannibalize.
+ 10 shadow res.
+ Undead looks and animation are great.
+ Horde win most BG.

- I have my Undead Rogue in PvP server, but rogues, especially undead rogues are overpopulated here, making less chance to get into instance group, raid or arena team.
- I don't have any friends or guild in current server.
- I have no money on this character, tho I can transfer character from Alliance side (pvp server) and through Tanaris AH I can "transfer" money.



Human:

+ Perception. Kinda tricky racial, and really depend on luck. Best thing which may happen is if enemy rogue waste hes Vanish but still eat Sap. Outside Arena it's not so great tho.
+ Human rogues are more "welcome" in raid or arena groups because of their PvP and PvE friendly racials.
+ Reputation. Less farming which is nice.
+ I can instantly buy epic flying mount if I want, so np with money.
+ Friends, guild. Tho guild is kinda casual but I'll focus on PvP anyway.

+/- Weapon expertise, but it seems that in WotLK I will spec Mutilate for PvP or even PvE, so I'm loosing Expertise racial which is not so nice.
+/- My Human rogue is in PvE server. The bad thing is that I can't gank here for fun, but outdoor PvP is kinda dead anyway and I don't really like ganking while I'm leveling or farming. The good thing is that acording to statistics in current PvE server rogues are less populated (they are 3rd least populated class here), that's probably because most people chose rogue for ganking and they chose PvP server.
+/- Maybe it's a myth but people for serious PvP'ing chose PvP server not PvE, so there might be trouble to find serious PvP arena teams(?)

- Alliance lose most BGs, not a big deal just have to find premade.



In consilution:
Racials and looks favor toward undead. Perception is too random while WotF will always do it's work. But there are so many other factors which in my current situation favor human.

[eil]

Perception is, hands down, the best rogue racial in 2v2. Sapping an opposing rogue at beginning of a match or finding a druid before he throws up hots or shifts to bear is huge in 2s as double DPS or single especially considering the majority of top 2s teams that have a druid or rogue.

It's nice to able to start with strong pressure for either an early kill or a headstart in the mana war.

[Levk]

NIGHT ELVES ARE FINE.

[Gimnus]

Changes that should be in the next beta push. Bear in mind that some of these may change somewhat or entirely, and there may also be other changes coming in subsequent pushes:

Orc
- Hardiness now reduces the duration of stun effects by 15%


Troll
- Racial Passive "The Voodoo Shuffle": Reduces the duration of all movement impairing effects by 15%. Trolls be flippin' out mon!

- Berserking: no longer has an activation cost of energy/rage/etc


Draenei
- Gift of the Naaru: The amount healed is increased based on the caster's Spell Power or Attack Power, whichever is higher. This ability does not lose casting time from taking damage.

- Shadow Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Shadow spells by 2%


Dwarf
- Frost Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Frost spells by 2%

- Racial Passive "Mace Specialization": Expertise with Maces and Two-Handed Maces increased by 5.


Undead
- Shadow Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Shadow spells by 1% (yes, this is lower than the other resistance racials)

- Will of the Forsaken: removes any fear, sleep, or charm effect (no longer has a lasting immunity).


Night Elf
- Quickness: reduces the chance to be hit by melee or ranged attacks by 2%

- Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 3%


Tauren
- Endurance: now scales based on base health, to be tuned to approximately a 5% heath increase if the player were wearing green quality gear

- Nature Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Nature spells by 2%


Gnome
- Escape Artist: the freeing effect can no longer be resisted

- Arcane Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by Arcane spells by 2%


Blood Elf
- Mana Tap: ability removed (partially integrated into Arcane Torrent)

- Arcane Torrent: restores 15 energy, 15 runic power, or 6% of mana to the Blood Elf (along with the current 2s silence effect)

- Magic Resistance: reduces the chance to be hit by spells by 2%


Human
- Perception: changed to a passive, now grants one character level of passive stealth detection

- Racial "The Fall of Humanity": Feign death which may trick enemies into ignoring you. Any threat is restored versus enemies still in combat upon cancellation of this effect. 5min cooldown

- Racial Passive "Human Supremacy": The dominance of Humanity is evidenced by having one more racial bonus than normal. Actually, make that two counting this one. (just a tooltip, no actual functionality)

- The Human Spirit: spirit bonus lowered to 5%


Note: this is a list of changes/additions, not an exhaustive list of all abilities. Racial abilities not mentioned here haven't changed (or are ones I forgot to put on this list).

new race abiletys, gess humens and undead migth fail. a

[Varithorn1]

Human Rogues are amazing, because they beat other rogues!

[TraceTheRogue]

The only reason Humans are superior is the +5 Expertise on swords and the Perception (now passive). Other than that, nothing else. Fall of Humanity is meh..