Raid as demonolgy! here's the build

[thelorddave]

I want to see Metamorphosis good as well - I would happily trade Ruin for an excellent 51 point talent in Demonology. Unfortunately, as it stands, Metamorphosis is not that talent. Just look at Haunt - does its own damage, increases DoT damage, and then heals you for 20% of ALL damage done to target durings its 12 sec duration (less if dispelled). Metamorphosis seems like a purely PVP talent which MAY have some raid utility (i.e. boss has lots of adds). I do not see how 75% of spell power translated to attack power will make up for the loss of Lock spell casting and Felguard melee damage. Sorry if my previous post was a bit blunt, but I am upset that some classes are getting excellent 51 point talents (Warriors/Rogues) and the one I really want to use is broken. Additionally, it upsets me that a 21 point destruction talent is far superior to the 51 point demonology talent. We still have quite a bit of time before the xpansion goes live, hopefully it will get fixed!

[gonewild]

Didn't mean to imply use of Shadowburn in DPS rotation - just that is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Sacrificing 3% spell damage on ISB procs is worth it (to me) for an instant cast direct damage spell that can crit, especially with Ruin involved.

i don't mean to be rude but you seem to have very little idea about end game pve itemization. a standard 8/8 t6 warlock currently should be sitting in at least around 30% unbuffed destruction spell crit rate as 21/40. with the change of ISB to work only on self direct shadow spells, it means its uptime is extremely high, close to 100% (some statistics involved) with this crit rate. i understand at the beginning of wrath raiding, your crit rate will be much lower, but moonkin aura will provide 5% extra and 50/21(40/21) has extra 2% when compared to 21/50(21/40), so the crit rate will still be high enough to keep ISB up almost 100% of the time. therefore by speccing 4/5 imp ISB, you effectively lose 3% dps. and out of all the BC boss encounters, there is absolutely not a single one in which shadowburn can make a difference.

[faris1]

the only thing I think that would fix meta is if they allow you to keep your pet while its active. Or they simply just make meta way overpowering and roll almost the entire demon tree into one talent, since thats basically what it makes you give up is almost all 50 points you put in demon.

[Shatteryoface]

Not sure if anyone has considered this spec yet but it seems to be pretty good. Considering saccing you succubus now only gives you a 10% increase to shadow dmg where as its 15% atm, what about not saccing her and keeping her out. Yea you lose another 5% increase to shadow dmg but you're gaining another 10% chance to crit on your shadowbolt's (master demo + demonic tactics). So this spec is giving you...

(This is considering you will have your Succubus out)
* 15% chance to crit
* 5% increase to shadow dmg
* 12% increase to spell power
* 100% crit dmg bonus

Be gentle people...I've never rolled a lock before but I'm pretty familar with the class. So let me know what you think.

[Shatteryoface]

Wow ok I know I'm a n00b cause I didn't post a link to the spec I was talking about, lmfao. So here it is

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...03500035200000

[thelorddave]

i don't mean to be rude but you seem to have very little idea about end game pve itemization. a standard 8/8 t6 warlock currently should be sitting in at least around 30% unbuffed destruction spell crit rate as 21/40. with the change of ISB to work only on self direct shadow spells, it means its uptime is extremely high, close to 100% (some statistics involved) with this crit rate. i understand at the beginning of wrath raiding, your crit rate will be much lower, but moonkin aura will provide 5% extra and 50/21(40/21) has extra 2% when compared to 21/50(21/40), so the crit rate will still be high enough to keep ISB up almost 100% of the time. therefore by speccing 4/5 imp ISB, you effectively lose 3% dps. and out of all the BC boss encounters, there is absolutely not a single one in which shadowburn can make a difference.

No need to apologize! I greatly appreciate learning ways to improve my play. However, you do need to remember that only about 1-5% of the WoW community has ever seen 8/8 T6 gear! Unfortunately, I have been on several 1% wipes where getting off a Shadowburn may have helped, as opposed to getting stomped by the boss while trying to get a SB off. When I am sitting pretty with 30% crit and some T7 gear, I will gladly respec to drop Shadowburn - until then, I'm hanging on to it.

[thelorddave]

Wow ok I know I'm a n00b cause I didn't post a link to the spec I was talking about, lmfao. So here it is

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...03500035200000

Going that deep into Demonology without getting Felguard is very bad idea - likely you do not understand the DPS output of a Felguard with a fully stacked Demonic Frenzy buff. Aftermath is another waste of points - no boss will be affected by stun. Demonic Pact should not be passed up - raid wide spell damage bonus = a LOT of damage. That's about as nice as I can be.

[MortuariusBC]

No need to apologize! I greatly appreciate learning ways to improve my play. However, you do need to remember that only about 1-5% of the WoW community has ever seen 8/8 T6 gear! Unfortunately, I have been on several 1% wipes where getting off a Shadowburn may have helped, as opposed to getting stomped by the boss while trying to get a SB off. When I am sitting pretty with 30% crit and some T7 gear, I will gladly respec to drop Shadowburn - until then, I'm hanging on to it.

i assure you that many many many more bosses have been downed with an extra shadowbolt here and there than bosses will ever be downed by shadowburn. Consider exactly how much HP a major 25man raid boss has at 1% health. All that extra damage throughout the fight is > that extra sburn at the end.

trust me many times i considered and tried many times to make sburn a raiding spell... even way back in the naxx days.

[thelorddave]

After careful consideration (and some number crunching) I agree with the OP's original proposed spec. I has become apparent to me (and likely painfully obvious to some others) that I have limited raid experience and did not fully understand the necessary transition from a 5-man group spec to a raid spec. I greatly appreciate the lesson from those more experienced.

As an effort to further develop my understanding (and possibly help some others with the same problem), I started a thread regarding the differences between group and raid speccing - I would appreciate any other insights.

The thread is here...again thanks!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14738.0