The REAL problem with Divine Spirit

[Telitzp]

Okay, look, I am not a Beta so I cannot yell at Korra. However, I want everyone's opinion on this (priest, druid, shaman, paladin).

Divine Spirit - 21 points needed into Discipline
In Wrath, this leaves us with 50 points left (48 if you get improved, which you kind-of have to, duh). Do you know what that means? We just got fucked out of our 51 point holy talent.

This has always been the case. I mean, really, why should we HAVE to give up a 51 point talent to bring this to a raid? Oh... You want us to bring a FULL discipline priest to the raid; but hey, we just nerfed Grace so no point in bringing you anymore.

All I am really saying is, I do not care if you make Divine Spirit base or not, but please just move it up in the tier's so we can get our 51 holy talent and still have improved divine spirit.

What if Blessing of Kings was 21 points?
What if Arcane Intellect was not base and was a 21 point talent in Arcane? (No 51 point talent for you mages)
What if Mark of the Wild was 21 points in Feral and you were a resto druid?

Shoot.. What if Blessing of Wisdom was in Ret (replenishment am I right? lol), and you were forced to spec 21 points in ret.

What do you guys think? Are we getting the shaft (again)?

[Neeklus]

You can't have it all.

I raided all the way up to Illidan as IDS holy without problem. While I couldn't get the HPS of a CoH priest during the spikey raid damage parts, I was a much more stable backup MT/OT healer than most.

For WotLK I'm not bothered. The 51 holy talent doesn't really interest me compared to the utility of IDS. And at least this time I'll have CoH as well.

[Maenetus]

What if Blessing of Kings was 21 points?

Blessing of Sanctuary is.... 21 points

[Soresu]

I imagine Blizz feel that in WoLK, full Disc Priests will be viable for raids, so they don't see the issue with having DS/IDS in the same location as always. They could change one of the worthless talents in the first couple of Tiers of Disc to be it, so it'd be less of a ballache for Priests to have both an Ultimate Holy Talent and a Buff that has perfect synergy with being a Holy Priest, but as the guy above me said, you can't have it all I guess :x

[Gahijnu]

What if PW:Fortitude was 21pt into Shadow?

Sorry, I couldn't resist... but that is what you compare DS with since you bring up AI and MOTW. We already have a buff that is a base spell.

[Maenetus]

Also while warriors hate PW:S and druids/paladins dislike it, it doesn't hurt DK TPS in the slightest.

[Telitzp]

What if PW:Fortitude was 21pt into Shadow?

Sorry, I couldn't resist... but that is what you compare DS with since you bring up AI and MOTW. We already have a buff that is a base spell.

The problem is, (a lot of people have already said this), is that most classes that have improved buffs (besides bosanc, which the dev's have already said they are reworking the prot tree), are all 11 or less points in another tree.

[xt]

well if they remove the cd on gaurdian spirit i see more holy priests wanting it,its looking very good.that means no way u can get ids and if u look at all the new gear it has a crapload of spi on it so in wotlk ids buff becomes too powerful to not take as well

think it will come down to ur guild in the end and wether they feel that taking a ids and the lower healing output that he bring comared to a holy priest is worth it.

and yeah we are shafted compared to other classes if there buffs was a 21 point talent in a tree that isnt viable for endgame pve im sure we ould roll more or less unbuffed ;D

i cant see having ds as a trainable talent will help that much anyway the only reason to get it would be cos it boosts healing/damage and ud still have to go into dis tree to pick up that talent.

[Telitzp]

well if they remove the cd on gaurdian spirit i see more holy priests wanting it,its looking very good.that means no way u can get ids and if u look at all the new gear it has a crapload of spi on it so in wotlk ids buff becomes too powerful to not take as well

think it will come down to ur guild in the end and wether they feel that taking a ids and the lower healing output that he bring comared to a holy priest is worth it.

and yeah we are shafted compared to other classes if there buffs was a 21 point talent in a tree that isnt viable for endgame pve im sure we ould roll more or less unbuffed ;D

i cant see having ds as a trainable talent will help that much anyway the only reason to get it would be cos it boosts healing/damage and ud still have to go into dis tree to pick up that talent.

Yes, but is wrong with moving it up a tier or 2?

[Maenetus]

there are plenty of raid buffs higher in trees, too many to list so here are just the 21 pointers

blessing of sanctuary
insect swarm
sanctified retribution
vampiric embrace
hemorrhage

[xt]

nothing is wrong with that just blizz wont do it cos its not in the masterplan for priests to have ids and coh/gaurdian spi.they want disc to be raid viable so they gove us a straight choice.

[Neeklus]

nothing is wrong with that just blizz wont do it cos its not in the masterplan for priests to have ids and coh/gaurdian spi.they want disc to be raid viable so they gove us a straight choice.

Ah logic at work there.

Thus far IDS was the highest talent in disc that was raid viable. Now they are trying to make it that the entire tree is viable, not just the 21 point talent. Arguing like this is similar to a prot warrior wanting Mortal Strike.

[Maenetus]

note: 48/0/23 may be a common holy (paladin) spec in WotLK

[Telitzp]

note: 48/0/23 may be a common holy (paladin) spec in WotLK

note: who is going to get blessing of kings?
THE TANK?

[Maenetus]

51/20/0 is the other spec that will likely be common

prot paladins always spec kings, though with BoSanc being great... they can't exactly do both

0/11/60 may become the popular ret raiding spec even with 5 points being wasted (kings is probably worth a full 6 points)

[Soresu]

Wasn't this about DS? xD

as an aside, keeping this thread off-track, I've raided with a Protadin since TBC release and he's never, once, had BoK in his build - It's always been brought by Holy Paladins

[Mandible]

You don't have to pick imp DS with the buff / debuff changes. There are more than enough, and better buffs that add the same which will still be in the raid - and its not a necesity for 5 man groups.

In the whole disc being pve viable one question - why pick a disc priest over another paladin? I mean looking at Blessing of Sanctuary doing the same and more for less points as Grace what would be the overall plus over a disc priest - seeing as a paladin atm is still as good or better single target healer, and disc more or less looses out on the raid healing. One extra paladin would be able to add BoSanc to the whole raid so all had 3% dam reduction which lasted the whole fight, and you would still be able to have the other blessings.

[Guran]

Actually, with the WLK changes BoK is probably going to be a tankadin-only buff

And about Grace being useful, you will if you don't have a prot pala in the raid

[Mandible]

Not having a prot pala in our raids is close to impossible.

5 man - not needed.
10 man - its more focused on raid healing and it won't be that needed to make a real difference.
25 man - there will 100% be a prot pala in the raid.

[Telitzp]

Actually, with the WLK changes BoK is probably going to be a tankadin-only buff

And about Grace being useful, you will if you don't have a prot pala in the raid

This is close to warlocks getting Shadow Embrace (5% less melee damage from bosses or w/e).. And to think that Afflication locks weren't wanted for 'this'.

Do you think a priest will want to waste 3 talent points on 3% less damage? No.