[Discussion] SoC Change

[exphius]

But knowing that the fight is gonna last more than 1 minute where the 5 stack is obtained and maintained for atleast 1 minute.

Also on a side note i used both seals at different times on warriors in the beta, there wasnt much difference in "dps" in 1v1. But in arena where its gonna last alot longer than just a simple 1v1. I would assume that it would put out more damage. Hell if i needed the fast burst to finish someone off i would switch to command just to judge them.(preferably after a hoj). OH and even that is questionable since we are assuming you already have a 5 stack. this in instance would be a bigger judge from vengeance than command wouldnt it?

[Montoya]

But knowing that the fight is gonna last more than 1 minute where the 5 stack is obtained and maintained for atleast 1 minute.

Also on a side note i used both seals at different times on warriors in the beta, there wasnt much difference in "dps" in 1v1. But in arena where its gonna last alot longer than just a simple 1v1. I would assume that it would put out more damage. Hell if i needed the fast burst to finish someone off i would switch to command just to judge them.(preferably after a hoj). OH and even that is questionable since we are assuming you already have a 5 stack. this in instance would be a bigger judge from vengeance than command wouldnt it?

Since it is classified a magical debuff (as far as I know) it is susceptible to being dispelled, is it not?

[Kawasaki.gdm]

yes it is, but thats good, becose your enemy will expend alot of mana on dispels and more time dispeling than healing.

I tested, and is very good in PVP also, vengeance judge do more dmg, and to finish someone just cast command and stun/judge, hammer.

[Vorpal]

Also remember the 30% resist dispel from talents

[Naur]

Do you count with the SoC glyph -20% more chance to proc-?

Edit: tested with servant of Sevine and both are similar in dps, but think vengeance dps was lucky with 16 judgement crits and only 2 hits in the test. Vengeance judgement is far better than SoC: 2941 crit VS about 1400.
So VS high armor targets vengeance, and VS light armor, SoC! 8)

[Montoya]

Do you count with the SoC glyph -20% more chance to proc-?

Edit: tested with servant of Sevine and both are similar in dps, but think vengeance dps was lucky with 16 judgement crits and only 2 hits in the test. Vengeance judgement is far better than SoC: 2941 crit VS about 1400.
So VS high armor targets vengeance, and VS light armor, SoC! 8)

That's probably a VERY good summary.

[Rollo]

thank you for the clarification Basutai =)

[Deleted]

i wrote it before and no u can test it on the PTR that SoC got buffed.

before u did 500 judgement dmg and 1000 with stun +noraml chance to crit(now by 50+%).
mow u do 1000 and 100% crit with stun.
so u crit with art of war and righteous vengeance with a over 50% chance with 2.5k.
(the numbers are only for an example. most people do a lot more)

blood does less and kicks ur self with 33% of that dmg, and it doesn't crit when stunned.

the seal of blood is better (18%-20% more than command) but it doesn't dmg u,
and with the glyph of command command is much better now than any other seal in the game for dps.

[Vorpal]

i wrote it before and no u can test it on the PTR that SoC got buffed.

before u did 500 dmg judgnent and 1000 with stun.
mow u do 1000 and 100% crit with stun.
so u crit with art of war and righteous vengeance with a over 50% chance with 2.5k.
(the numbers are only for an example. most people do a lot more)

blood does less and kicks ur self with 33% of that dmg, and it doesn't crit when stunned.

the seal of blood is better (18%-20% more than command) but it doesn't dmg u,
and with the glyph of command command is much better now than any other seal in the game for dps.

Command is better for PvP and solo but in a PvE enviroment where there are healers and long ugly fights you can't use SoCasino, Blood/Martyr is a lot better for pve damage since it's more dependable and powerful in the long run.

[Deleted]

1. if u fight 5-15 min in pve there is nothing like luke with command.
if u try it 100 times u will see that u have sometimes 3% more procs and sometimes 3% less.
but the proc does only bit of our dmg, so u do only 1% more or less dmg.

2. there is no healer for a pally.
yes they heal u because u would cry without it, but normaly they wuoldn't heal u.

3. as i said the new judgment of command deos more dmg than blood. command 1:0 blood
blood deals dmg to u. command 2:0 blood
the seal of command deals 18% less dmg than blood. command 2:1 blood
with the command glyph, command does more dmg than blood. command 3:1 blood

=> yes u need a glyph, but there arent so many others that are realy good for palladins in pve.
10% more judgment dmg.
and 2 free slots.

so in the end command IS NOW BETTER than blood.
and ur healers are happy that u don't hurt urself

[Vorpal]

1. if u fight 5-15 min in pve there is nothing like luke with command.
if u try it 100 times u will see that u have sometimes 3% more procs and sometimes 3% less.
but the proc does only bit of our dmg, so u do only 1% more or less dmg.

2. there is no healer for a pally.
yes they heal u because u would cry without it, but normaly they wuoldn't heal u.

3. as i said the new judgment of command deos more dmg than blood.  command 1:0 blood
blood deals dmg to u. command 2:0 blood
the seal of command  deals 18% less dmg than blood. command 2:1 blood
with the command glyph, command does more dmg than blood. command 3:1 blood

=> yes u need a glyph, but there arent so many others that are realy good for palladins in pve.
10% more judgment dmg.
and 2 free slots.

so in the end command IS NOW BETTER than blood.
and ur healers are happy that u don't hurt urself

1) Mate... some fight in pve are more than 10 mins, Illidan Stormrage's fight is around 25mins THAT'S more that enough time to prove Blood/martyr superior.
2) Healer won't heal you? Are you telling me they don't heal taping lock or SP who spam Shadow word: Death?
3) If you aks around in the forums and if you watch a naxx run you will see what i mean, You thing Command is better and from what you write that's perfectly right, your only mistake is that you don't count the factor of time. Command will most probably proc 7 timer per minute and 8,4 if you have the glyph (Thanks Rawberry for the numbers) while Blood/martyr work on every hit.
4) You forgot that our gear now uses haste rating, which does not work for command but does work greatly with blood/martyr.

[Deleted]

i wrote 15 min and not 10 and i us it only for an example.
the healers heal u but its better if they have time to heal others.
yeah u kill bosses now easy, but when u make the first try every heal is important(like every dmg)

command has a 40-42% chance to proc with an attackspeed of 3.5 - 3.8
so if i lower the dmg to like blood (1/2) i have a chance to proc of 80-84%.
if i use the glyph i have 60-62%.
if i compare it with blood now blood would need a 120% chache to proc(only symbolic)

and the patches with the judgment buff where the last two, and the first did nothing for pve,
and many people didn't realize the new and much better judgment.

and as anybody knows was the weak pve judgment of command the most important thing for using blood

and haste should improve command now.
for the chance to proc u would now use the unmodified attackspeed.
and if u attack faster then u have more attacks/time with the same procchance(not shure about that, but thought it was anounced the command gets better with haste).
and like u said 8.4 procs/min when u hit with auto 16,67 times per min it would proc more than halfe of your attacks
=> does more dmg than blood.

[Rawberry]

Well look at it this way. We are getting more synergy with talents now then before at the price of more damage. Then again didn't we pay for having our on demand spell/talents to be a bit nerfed for more damage.

It's a nice vicious cycle that Blizzard is playing with our class.

A vicious cycle?

Hmm, I wouldn't call the Wotlk development a vicious cycle. Yes we have been screwed in the past but even you have to agree that the Paladin is looking atleast 200% better in Wotlk when compared to TBC?

And besides a double-damage, critted Judgement of Command was so overpowered at level 80 .