18.09 resto changes - PvE discussion

[procne]

from what i read on main page:

Restoration
<b>Skills</b>

• Gift of the Wild now affects the whole raid.
• Lifebloom healing reduced. Mana cost increased. (Check Skill list for details)

<b>Talents</b>

• Flourish renamed Wild Growth.
• Wild Growth (Tier 11) - Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 15 yards of the target for 350 over 7 sec. The amount healed is applied quickly at first, and slows down as the Wild Growth reaches its full duration.\
• Gift of the Earthmother (Tier 10) changed to reduce the base global cooldown of your Rejuvenation and Lifebloom spells by 4/8/12/16/20%.
• Tree of Life (Tier 9) increases healing received by 6%. (Previously 3%).
• Improved Tree of Life (Tier 9) now increases your healing spell power by 5/10/15% of your spirit while in Tree of Life Form. (Previously reduced the mana cost by 5/10/15%) :

and it seems like a huge nerf to me.
what concerns me most is lifebloom and wild growth. so wild growth is nerfed from 1600 to 350 (!) healing over 7 seconds. ofc, scaling would be most important here but i doubt blizz increased coefficient here. so basically we are left with 51-point talent that heals for less and during longer time than priet's coh?

as for lifebloom nerf - question is how much more does it cost and how much less does it heal. on ptr yesterday lifebloom was healing ~8% less than on live. so much more did they nerf it?

as for tree of life change - its nice that bonus healing was increased from 3% to 6% but why remove reduced mana cost effect? they just changed tree completely removing everything it has now and giving something else. i dont like such changes.

i like gift of the earthmother change tho, which reduces global cd even more but still...

we have lifebloom and wild growth nerfed badly. i dont see how wild growth can be competitive vs other aoe heals. i dont even think i would include it in my talent tree. we can keep more lifeblooms in raid but their hps get significantly nerfed. so how i see it now is that either druid will be single target healer with nourish / regrowth (still less efficient than pala) or will be hot bot designed to keep lifebloom on 10 ppl in raid providing support for raid healing.

[TerryBogard]

they changes are in actuality a poor excuse for a nerf and I hope more are on the way. Lifebloom has always been OP and its finally being scaled down. Wild Growth still scales with spell power so 1600 was a huge number and needed to be lessened. As far as your mana pool goes, you never run out so the cost of ALL druids heals should be increased. Every other class pots you should too.

Druids please stop complaining that you are slightly less OP but still OP. You outheal all other healer specs by a ratio of 2 to 1 in WotLK. Fun for you but shits creek for all other healers.

[Jukaï]

from what i read on main page:

Restoration
<b>Skills</b>

• Gift of the Wild now affects the whole raid.
• Lifebloom healing reduced. Mana cost increased. (Check Skill list for details)

<b>Talents</b>

• Flourish renamed Wild Growth.
• Wild Growth (Tier 11) - Heals up to 5 friendly party or raid members within 15 yards of the target for 350 over 7 sec. The amount healed is applied quickly at first, and slows down as the Wild Growth reaches its full duration.\
• Gift of the Earthmother (Tier 10) changed to reduce the base global cooldown of your Rejuvenation and Lifebloom spells by 4/8/12/16/20%.
• Tree of Life (Tier 9) increases healing received by 6%. (Previously 3%).
• Improved Tree of Life (Tier 9) now increases your healing spell power by 5/10/15% of your spirit while in Tree of Life Form. (Previously reduced the mana cost by 5/10/15%) :

and it seems like a huge nerf to me.
what concerns me most is lifebloom and wild growth. so wild growth is nerfed from 1600 to 350 (!) healing over 7 seconds. ofc, scaling would be most important here but i doubt blizz increased coefficient here. so basically we are left with 51-point talent that heals for less and during longer time than priet's coh?

as for lifebloom nerf - question is how much more does it cost and how much less does it heal. on ptr yesterday lifebloom was healing ~8% less than on live. so much more did they nerf it?

as for tree of life change - its nice that bonus healing was increased from 3% to 6% but why remove reduced mana cost effect? they just changed tree completely removing everything it has now and giving something else. i dont like such changes.

i like gift of the earthmother change tho, which reduces global cd even more but still...

we have lifebloom and wild growth nerfed badly. i dont see how wild growth can be competitive vs other aoe heals.&#160; i dont even think i would include it in my talent tree. we can keep more lifeblooms in raid but their hps get significantly nerfed. so how i see it now is that either druid will be single target healer with nourish / regrowth (still less efficient than pala) or will be hot bot designed to keep lifebloom on 10 ppl in raid providing support for raid healing.

Flourish (Forget the retarded new name) had to receive some nerfing, as it was dominating group healing in Naxxramas 25, albeit I agree they nerfed the snot out if, together with Lifebloom.

Hopefully these 'nerfs' are the 'adjustment' needed for the amout of healing power we will receive from our Spirit and the doubling of our ToL aura. On beta I currently am between 900 and 1000 spirit unbuffed, granting above 135 bonus healing spellpower while in Tree of Life Form, and hopefully Blizzard will realize they will have to revert the Lifebloom changes back to the previous build and have Flourish, although left to be seen, be between its old and its new value, around 2200/2500 healing done in 7 seconds for rank 4.

Why ? Flourish is obvious - they more then halved its healing power, it' nerfed to hard like this. Lifebloom will still be required in rolling rotations on 3 or 4 tanks. Lifebloom in the previous build was at between 900 and 975 healing p/s. Compared for group (not raid or aoe) healing it already was inferior to Flourish in the previous build, which started at 1200 p/s and then decayed into 850 p/s on its targets.

Now about Gift of the Earthmother ... you like it ? It's nerfed. Heavily. Nerfed so hard its unusable now. Not only will it not help you receive the 1 second gbc anymore (which is required, in my opinion) but they also removed what little bonus utility/gimmick it granted to Nourish, rendering that spell completely useless as well.

They heavily reduced the healing of our two main spells, increased the cost on one marginally and removed the bonus 15% mana reduction, so I wont be giving any comment about my mana sustainability in combat, but I cant say I'm optimistic.

they changes are in actuality a poor excuse for a nerf and I hope more are on the way. Lifebloom has always been OP and its finally being scaled down. Wild Growth still scales with spell power so 1600 was a huge number and needed to be lessened. As far as your mana pool goes, you never run out so the cost of ALL druids heals should be increased. Every other class pots you should too.

Druids please stop complaining that you are slightly less OP but still OP. You outheal all other healer specs by a ratio of 2 to 1 in WotLK. Fun for you but shits creek for all other healers.

You must be a Shaman ? Dominating Black Temple and above with Chain Healing ? That's what we have been doing in Naxxramas with Flourish. Pot meets Kettle.

'Wild Growth' does not, like Lifebloom, benefit 100% of your spellpower, only a portion, so that argument is invalid. In fact, Lifebloom got stomped on so insanely hard its the worst scaling healing spell in Wrath of the Lich King. If I point out to you its our main healing spell, can you atleast understand our frustration PvE wise, hm ?

About the mana regeneration, I agree to an extend. But like the poster below me points out - not only do they increase all our healing spells by 15%, they also increase the cost of our main healing spell by another 4% base manacost. Also, I'd like to point out that 'pot chugging' is anyhow a 'thing of the past' for all classes, so be glad.

[procne]

they changes are in actuality a poor excuse for a nerf and I hope more are on the way. Lifebloom has always been OP and its finally being scaled down.

somehow its not OP enough to make druids needed in sunwell for example

Wild Growth still scales with spell power so 1600 was a huge number and needed to be lessened.

it didnt scale so much. yesterday on ptr with 1200 spellpower it healed for 2400-2600 over 7 seconds. now it will heal for 1100-1300 over 7 seconds? unless coefficient is increased.

As far as your mana pool goes, you never run out so the cost of ALL druids heals should be increased. Every other class pots you should too.

i do pot but i agree mana costs could be increased. but now they BOTH increase mana cost of lifebloom by 40% as i heared and removed mana cost reductions from TOL. it will almost double mana cost for lifebloom.

Druids please stop complaining that you are slightly less OP but still OP. You outheal all other healer specs by a ratio of 2 to 1 in WotLK. Fun for you but shits creek for all other healers.

with what spells?

[procne]

Flourish (Forget the retarded new name) had to receive some nerfing, as it was dominating group healing in Naxxramas 25, albeit I agree they nerfed the snot out if, together with Lifebloom.

Hopefully these 'nerfs' are the 'adjustment' needed for the amout of healing power we will receive from our Spirit and the doubling of our ToL aura. On beta I currently am between 900 and 1000 spirit unbuffed, granting above 135 bonus healing spellpower while in Tree of Life Form, and hopefully Blizzard will realize they will have to revert the Lifebloom changes back to the previous build and have Flourish be between its old and its new value, around 2200/2500 healing done in 7 seconds for rank 4.

Why ? Flourish is obvious - they more the halved its healing power, it' nerfed to hard like this. Lifebloom will still be required in rolling rotations on 3 or 4 tanks. Lifebloom in the previous build was at between 900 and 975 healing p/s. Compared for group (not raid or aoe) healing it already was inferior to Flourish in the previous build, which started at 1200 p/s and then decayed into 850 p/s on its targets.

i agree with higher ranks of flourish. 4k over 7 sec on last rank for aoe heal seemed way too high imo. 2000 would be fine idd. i think it would be near other aoe heals then. but nerfing 1st rank from 1600 to 350? i mean, i know its lvl 60 spell, but making 5x lower? i didnt see yet higher ranks but i guess they were nerfed to ground as well.

Now about Gift of the Earthmother ... you like it ? It's nerfed. Heavily. Nerfed so hard its unusable now. Not only will it not help you receive the 1 second gbc anymore (which is required, in my opinion) but they also removed what little bonus utility/gimmick it granted to Nourish, rendering that spell completely useless as well.

it was nerfed before to 10% reduction of global cd, now its up to 20% which is fine imo. and i didnt really care for mana recovery from nourish altho it was interesting mechanic

They heavily reduced the healing of our two main spells, increased the cost on one marginally and removed the bonus 15% mana reduction, so I wont be giving any comment about my mana sustainability in combat, but I cant say I'm optimistic.

[droozle]

Druids please stop complaining that you are slightly less OP but still OP. You outheal all other healer specs by a ratio of 2 to 1 in WotLK. Fun for you but shits creek for all other healers.

Terry Bogard, please stop complaining about druids by posting hundreds of calls for nerfs in every thread on the druid forums. By now we know you don't like druids because you keep losing from them in arena's. Either roll a druid yourself to enjoy the class's overpoweredness or stop doing PvP. Warcraft could use a little less focus on PvP anyway.

[Kushiaji]

These nerfs were needed, but way way overshot. Totally changing mechanics of ToL, making our dominant heal worst in game with a double nerf, Earthmother, its just meh. And to think I almost decided to go resto from balance, heh. Hope to see appropriate tuning soon..

[TheYang]

as i said in the other thread http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=16748.0

uuhm... i don't know what to think of this...
with the global cd change again it is ok to take a little of lifeblooms strength...

but how much really was taken? just the 49 healing over 7seconds (=7less heal per tick)
or was the scaling with spellpower reduced?
if so by how much?
before the patch it should have been pretty exactly 100% of the spellpower (~52% of the +heal)


/e:

But you're not supposed to be THE raid healer.

Yes we are
why?
'caus resto shamans chainheal is a usual spell, as such it should be the weakest
'caus heal priests circle is a 51 point talent, as such it should be very strong
'caus our druid flourish/wild growth is a 61 point talent, as such it should be even slightly stronger than the circle of the priest,
and for a hot to be strong you got to have a much higher heal if the hot completes it's duration (because it does that extremely rarely)

/e: i don't care about mana, in wotlk raids with all totems and shadowpriests etc raidwide i can't believe we'll have problems.

[Koumaru]

i didnt see yet higher ranks but i guess they were nerfed to ground as well.

Yup, 1085 base value at the final rank. Hope for a coefficient buff...

First I was excited about Nourish. Then its mana cost more than doubled, and its only advantage over Regrowth is a half second less casting time (but a lower TTO - Time 'til OOM).

Oh well, there's still Flourish! Oh wait, never mind.

Still have trusty ol' Spambloom. What? That, too?

...

Patiently awaiting the next beta build,
Kou

[procne]

ye, i saw that already. even tho hot might still heal for more than coh, it still requires 7 seconds for it. plus we lose much of that healing as well. and so our 51 point talent becomes crappy.

[eronaile]

Maybe you want to read http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=16748.0 for some more "You were nerfed rightfully and you're still overpowdered rouge" crap ;D
Although I have to admit my post was a bit... emotional, some seconds after I read the changes ^^
Some 50% of this nerf would have been ... OK. I can just hope this is gonna be fixed soon. Maybe Blizz just wants to test how much punishment a class can take, as they did with the Deathknight. DK received a fix pretty soon, making him at least SOMEWHAT useful once again. So there's still hope for restoration druids.

[procne]

those ppl that pop in that thread laughing at druids "hahaha finally u were nerfed" because they play arena only and were pissed by losing to druids all the time are very annoying.

eh thats why i hate arena. forums are filled with ppl shouting "xxx is OP, nerf!". and they all behave like only pvp mattered. they clap with joy at the sight of every nerf, not even fully understanding it. and pve suffers very much to it. im not saying resto druids are not op in arena. i think they are thx to travel form and instant spells. but in raids we dont do so well.

i was looking forward to 3.0 patch, cause it seemed as a lots of useful stuff. but now we have our main spell's power nerfed twice + mana cost nerf. wild growth was nerfed to the ground making it pretty useless. the only positive things would be gift of the earthmother, living seed and nature's splendor.

[cryogenic]

It's stupidity 2v2 is about keeping away from your opponents, resto druids are crap for 5v5 there is nowhere to hide or run they are only effective in 2v2 which will never be balanced as the most evasive classes will always win.
Making them pretty much a live feral druid as a healer makes the entire druid class a useless PVP class feral is a joke the balance was that you could PVP resto in 2v2 with a huge nerf it means reroll because a shaman has travel form high defense even snares and offensive capabilites to go with it's healing....
It's really just stupid, one class is always going to be over-represented in 2v2 if not druids shamans now perhaps as druids have been nerfed in not just healing but with regards to escaes through feral charge as well being moved up tiers.
Druid seems broken in all regards atm.

[greenstripes]

Why is it always druids vs. shaman in the druid forums? I'm curious, as a resto shaman I always compare to a priest as they're the competing raid healer. Whatever, I'm here to say as a competing healer I still find you threatening.

From the perspective of a raid healer, i can tell you right now that skipping Wild Growth would make you an idiot. It'll still do loads of healing in 25 mans, before it was obscenely overpowered, now it's just plain useful. Slap it on a group that's taking damage, then continue with the hots. That'll be real nice. You wont be raid healers, but you were never raid healers, and you did OK anyways. You'll still be the druid healers that you were before, just now you wont completely lose out on fights with heavy AoE.

[MortuariusBC]

It's stupidity 2v2 is about keeping away from your opponents, resto druids are crap for 5v5 there is nowhere to hide or run they are only effective in 2v2 which will never be balanced as the most evasive classes will always win.
Making them pretty much a live feral druid as a healer makes the entire druid class a useless PVP class feral is a joke the balance was that you could PVP resto in 2v2 with a huge nerf it means reroll because a shaman has travel form high defense even snares and offensive capabilites to go with it's healing....
It's really just stupid, one class is always going to be over-represented in 2v2 if not druids shamans now perhaps as druids have been nerfed in not just healing but with regards to escaes through feral charge as well being moved up tiers.
Druid seems broken in all regards atm.

i also find it amazing that druids get such a bad rap MAINLY due to 2v2

not many teams want a druid on 5v5... they are the least used healer on top teams

i have an affliction lock and i CANNOT dps a resto druid down... eventually i end up lifetapping and they throw occasional moonfires... i fought a resto druid for over 40 min 1v1 in 2s arena when my healer died and their dps died... i still dont consider them OP because 1v1 means crap... 2v2 is always gonna be imbalanced

i didnt plan on using my druid as my main, but i was very happy to see them get some decent AoE raid heal ability... blizzard cant possibly let these nerfs fly...

i havent checked on beacon of light since the PTR but a pally was healing all of use in the beacon range for 10K+ heals...

[procne]

and why is it always pvp talking? all the time i hear that druids were op in arena blabla. but noone seems to care how did druids do in bt or sunwell for example. why is everything about arena?

i curse the day blizzard added those 2 damn rooms...

[Tickspoon]

i dont see how wild growth can be competitive vs other aoe heals.

You didn't have an AOE heal at all before. Now you have one, which stacks with other AOE heals.

Heals aren't meant to be competitive, they're meant to be complementary.

[procne]

just tested on ptr (1216 healing spellpower):

on live my lifebloom ticks for 280 out of TOL
2 days ago on ptr ticked for 260
now it ticks for 211 (!)

so my healing gets nerfed by 25%.

as for wildgrowth:

2 days ago rank 1 (obtainable on lvl 60) started ticking with 460 down to 250
now rank 2 (on lvl 70) starts ticking for 210 down to 156. that generates 1280 healing over 7 seconds. why should i even bother with this spell? before half of its duration dmg will be covered by other aoe heals.

[Madus]

wild growth is just useless like starfall now.
But atleast it dont have cooldown.

[xebtria]

moar free points for balance.