all pve content cleared ??

[haeresis]

From what I can tell they have only cleared Nax, are the other five raids not available yet to lvl80 players?


Sorry if that has been posted, I didnt feel like sifting through 13 pages of blah in the news thread.

[milkman]

From what I can tell they have only cleared Nax, are the other five raids not available yet to lvl80 players?


Sorry if that has been posted, I didnt feel like sifting through 13 pages of blah in the news thread.

Only nax and the two raid bosses are available to players right now (malygos and sarathim or wutever the name is). They defeated the starter raids that they had 4 months to practice on beta, and since they get paid to play and don't really have real jobs it shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Snappie]

I don't get those guys.

We are proud to declare that all WOTLK PVE raid content has now been cleared. This is both a moment of triumph and a cause for concern. The question in all our minds right now is if we could do this, how soon until the rest of the top guilds in the world clear all the raid content that WOTLK has to offer? Did Blizzard miscalculate in the tuning of these encounters? Or is this Blizzard folding under the weight of a large casual player base that demands to be on equal footing with end-game raiders?

I find this very arogant, since they had the whole beta to practise these bosses, and appearantly they are also getting paid to do this so they have all the time in the world to try and kill raid content. Why are they trying to get to Blizzard then? It is not Blizzard who is miscalculating, it is this guild who seems to be so damn hardcore (which in my humble opinion is a bit sad). Try and enjoy the game for once, and you will find you need more time to actually get this far.

Believe me when I say once the majority of the guilds cleared these three instances, new content is already available to these people.

[Keelie]

I think there should be content in-game that not everybody can clear. Yes, they had the beta to practice, but from what I heard, they weren't even 80 and were in their SWP/T6 gear. From this, it seems that Blizzard is calibrating the content so that a majority of guilds can clear all the content before 3.1 hits, and I personally disagree with this approach. Not everyone needs to be able to clear all the content. I think there should be content that takes an exceptional amount of skill and dedication to clear, and that it also provides a sense of an epic accomplishment or environment. Even for people who aren't capable of ever clearing that content, it provides something to strive for.

[WernerCD]

agreed.

They should make 10mans and 25mans seperate. And then make heroics for each and REALLY notch up difficulty on heroics.

Would give Normal Difficutly for the 'masses' and ability to 'see all the content', while also smackin it up a notch (or 5) for those who Have No Life.

Kriis

[Nilinor]

What part of KARA LEVEL RAIDS didnt you all get?

Kara/Mag/Gruul

Thats what these are, and those were not hard. Remember to, these same hardcore raiders complained about the gear stats for TBC, so Blizzard listened and didnt do the same this time around. Meaning their gear scaled very well.

Remember, it was the hardcore raiders that complained about the gear stats, so Blizzard listened to them and didn't do it.


Btw, Sunwell gear = full heroic gear epics for karazhan when you first go. So they went in their with about the best you could do that on top of the 4 months training they had as well.

[Xeno]

The problem is that their raid wasn't even full of level 80 people. THAT is the problem. Even Karazhan/Maulgar/Gruul were difficult on the initial release. They better tune these bosses up. That is why the guild is chiding Blizzard.

Did they have practice? Yes, and these two guilds are the top world guilds. Unfortunately, no amount of skill should be able to transcend to level 80 end-game content conquering with people below the level cap.

[Nilinor]

To be frank though, they complained cause the levels..

I think they forget, the bosses are 3 levels higher then you regardless of your own level.

So if you go in as level 76, the boss to that character is 79, where it would be 83 to the others.

Same chance to hit/miss and your damage would be negligble when your still doing 3k dps per person.

The only hard part would be the trash, but that would just take a few minutes longer. The only had part about kara and the rest of them was that you had to get gear before you went there, but since the Raiders complained about the gear stats from tbc, they never need to change their gear. That being said, they were ready to do those instances when they were level 70, because of THEIR OWN complaints.

They blame the casuals, but really should be on themselves for bitching about their outdated gear and not wanting to get rid of their raid epics so fast, if blizzard did what they did with TBC, they would not have cleared in 3 days, that a damn guarantee.

[Nilinor]

Advertising makes enough money where they dont need to work (the main core members) along with little gifts from electronics companies for their stuff.


Again like to point out, all Skull bosses = 3 levels higher then your character in regards to hit/miss/crit

So you could go in there with level 74's and still be just as viable, the hard part is the trash, and thats about it.

[Kudos]

What part of KARA LEVEL RAIDS didnt you all get?

Kara/Mag/Gruul

Thats what these are, and those were not hard.

I totally agree, however when TBC came out, there was SSC and TK to attune for. Right now, there isnt those extra harder instances to go and raid. I have no sympathy for 25th of November, who now get to twiddle their thumbs and be bored for the next few months.

[Nilinor]

Yea, probably will do that with ulduar, but we will have to see what the REAL end game is like.

I deem myself as semi-hardcore now, that I got time for it and put in the effort. I know what im looking forward too, and its not tier 7 (the new tier 4) gear, its going to be Tier 9 gear and fighting Arthas on 25man.

The real game hasn't started yet, and Ill be there when it does :P

[Bramickias]

What part of KARA LEVEL RAIDS didnt you all get?

Kara/Mag/Gruul

Thats what these are, and those were not hard.

It's funny but, Blizzard already said that the T4 raids were too hard for their liking when TBC shipped.
And just like me you think they were fairly easy, yet they make sure T7 is even easier then that. The Naxx that came with WotLK is more on the level of difficulty of kara/mag/gruul as they are today after many many nerfs ... and that is so easy it hurts.

[Viertel]

Advertising makes enough money where they dont need to work (the main core members) along with little gifts from electronics companies for their stuff.


Again like to point out, all Skull bosses = 3 levels higher then your character in regards to hit/miss/crit

So you could go in there with level 74's and still be just as viable, the hard part is the trash, and thats about it.

This is incorrect.

Yes, boss monsters are always PLvL+3, but the bosses themselves are hardcoded with attack power and raw damage output against a certain armor value of that level. So while you *could* tank as a 75 Warrior/Paladin/Druid/FotMKnight, you're going to get fucksmashed because your armor value isn't up to par.

[yomyom]

This is incorrect.

Yes, boss monsters are always PLvL+3, but the bosses themselves are hardcoded with attack power and raw damage output against a certain armor value of that level. So while you *could* tank as a 75 Warrior/Paladin/Druid/FotMKnight, you're going to get fucksmashed because your armor value isn't up to par.

Good thing then that he was talking about dps, and that not ALL members where low level.

I for one would assume the tank would be 80 and in ok gear.


But I do also agree that this is people shotting them selves in the foot, they QQ they had to replace gear, now they QQ that they can step right into a raid with the gear they got in SWP.

[Treelo]

What part of KARA LEVEL RAIDS didnt you all get?

Kara/Mag/Gruul

Thats what these are, and those were not hard. Remember to, these same hardcore raiders complained about the gear stats for TBC, so Blizzard listened and didnt do the same this time around. Meaning their gear scaled very well.

you clearly didn't do Gruul and Magtheridon before all the nerfs, they were quite hard then and no way could they have been done at level 75 / 76.

At the launch of TBC, people spent months working on these because they were hard.
That the top guild is able to clear everything as fast as this at level 76 means that pretty much any guild will be able to clear it at level 80 given a week or two. It's not like TwentyFifthNovember are that much better than other people that your average guild will be working on these raids until 3.1 is released.

[Nilinor]

They were hard because people didnt gear up in heroics like they were meant to, they ran to Kara etc with greens and S1/S2 gear thinking they can roll it. It don't work that way, your supposed to gear in the heroics before going there, not going in your fresh 70 greens.

Thats why people complained it was so hard.

Also @ Yomyom

Thanks for explaining that part, I really didnt think I would have to type out a long discussion in my posts saying how 5 people were 80 when they went, 3 of them being tanks :P

[Viertel]

It's funny but, Blizzard already said that the T4 raids were too hard for their liking when TBC shipped.
And just like me you think they were fairly easy, yet they make sure T7 is even easier then that. The Naxx that came with WotLK is more on the level of difficulty of kara/mag/gruul as they are today after many many nerfs ... and that is so easy it hurts.

People that say Karazhan was too easy, or that the T4 raids were, didn't do them right at launch. If you did, you're lying through your teeth if you expect intelligent people to believe.

Magtheridon was the hardest simply because of the ridiculous amount of damage the adds could do, unlimited infernals being spawned, retarded fast casting right off the bat spells, and fast casts as well. Plus, the Magtheridon fight required not one, or two, but FOUR groups of people to click cubes on a rotation and starting off sometimes the damn script didn't run right and the blast nova was never interrupted.

Secondly, Nightbane was pretty fucking brutal right out the gate -- especially on tanks. People cheesed the adds with snake traps starting off just because of how retardedly difficult in proportion that fight was to the rest of the instance. Plus, Shade of Aran's wonderful ability to chain "specials" back to back instantly was always a blast. Prince was fairly brutal on the tank as well.

Gruul himself was a prime of example of how T4 out of the gate was focused on "no quarter given". Shatter had a ridiculous range and if you were even remotely close to someone you both died - the damage from chains was absolutely stupid. Plus, the fight went on for much longer than after his first nerf because

A) Karazhan geared fucking blew chunks

B) His health was retarded.

T7 is tuned to be ENTRY LEVEL. It's what T4 content should have been, but the epic fail prevented that.

27DicksInNovember's statement is just meant to enrage people. They know the content's a joke, and we know it. But they know retards will get upset and post, and whine, and cry. Naxxramas has barely changed except for 3 fights in execution, and the other two raids are laughable at best.

And if they didn't realize how easy 9/10 of the raid content would be considering it's recycled, then they're just fucking morons.

[Nilinor]

The big thing through all this is that they didnt have to gear themselves like people did for BC, and thats is the hardcore raiders fault for bitching about their tier 2 shit being useless in expansion. They want to complain everything is focused on casuals when it was their whining that made it so you didn't have to gear at all to get to the raiding.

Really they have no one to blame but themselves.

[Blikje]

Besides, the real skill in WoW now is in PvP. yet the bigger e-penises come from PvE.

Bullshit. Anybody can do anything in pvp, with zero skill you can still join any bg and arena. You can even win in bg because of the raid you're in and you can still win enough arena's on low rating. So doesn't matter what you do you still get the pvp gear (which is of absolutely no use since it doesn't give you any new content) it just takes you more time. There are people afk-ing in bg's which allready shows you really don't have to do much, ofcourse I do hate afk-ers and as far all i care they should get a lifetime ban when caught 3 times or something.

Compare this to PVE: there are allot of guilds that did pve but did not clear sunwell, probably allot that didn't clear bt and mh either. If you afk in pve you get replaced and even kicked after a while. If you peform bad you get replaced, unless everybody is performing bad which means you'll have to try allot harder as a guild.

As far as i see it you can get some very good PVP shit by talking to nobody and just farming bg's. For arena pvp you need to teamplay with 2, 3 or 5 friends. But to pull of the hardest instance you need to teamplay with 25 people. And if you don't want to die too many times you need to do it well too. Also, see what they did with pvp from the start of TBC... They threw in arena system and 1 new bg, after that they only released a couple of armour sets. Compared to pve (again) this is totally nothing. It's like throwing a bone to the pvp-ers while giving pve-ers a diner.

I wouldn't wanna focus my playing on something that's actually getting second grade attention from Blizzard if I had a choice. I'd rather go for the real deal. Too bad I don't have allot of choices anymore as I go to work and school, hopefully enough time to get satisfied by the 10 man raid versions.

Now on-topic
It is rather weird they can pull this off so fast. Even if i'm totally not hardcore (mostly because of lack in time recently) I wouldn't mind dungeons that are extremely hard to beat for guilds like Nihilium. Games like this are meant to have something for every player. I consider PVP as very open to casuals and the more casual you are the longer leveling will take you in the first place. Casuals have allot to do in this game, don't think there where allot of mmorpgs out before which where this casual friendly. Problem is casuals have been asking for more, allot of them want to see the same content.

So if allot of casual players want the same content of course the focus is on what the hardcore people do. For example: people start asking why DK's start at 55 but new alts have to leveled from the start, people want their alts on cap level fast. For me leveling is something I really like enjoy, most talk is about people getting 80 now and i wonder why you should care so much. They obviously don't like leveling and want to enjoy it on the top there but there's a whole continent added to the game full with quests and stories. Doesn't mean whole general chats have to filled with the discussion about it. Gives me the feeling everybody is looking upward to them while totally ignoring the leveling content.

So here is Blizzard and their largest player base (casual mostly) asking for the endgame content too. Blizzard is not stupid and know it's smarter to give what the majority of customers ask for instead of giving the really dedicated customers their exclusive part of the product. Allot of companies do give exclusive products to their more active and important customers. So I personally blame the community, or at least a large part of it, for seeing hardcore raiding guilds as the real goal in their game and demanding they can get to the same goal as they are customers too. While in an rpg game they should really be setting their own goals.

I really feel this down-tuning of endgame content isn't making the game better. It leads to everybody being able to do the same thing as 'that average player' and when this has been reached who says the new average won't complain?

[zizfizziks]

Every xpack should just launch with 1 encounter that's literally impossible until the next xpack. That should shut these kids up.

A single room, single boss encounter with like 50 billion HPs that would take the best of the best a week to down in a continuous fight. Jackasses, get a life.