Your theories on our new feral stat...

[Tany]

While I agree with you Xebtria in that we only have dodge, we DO currently have the advantage of being overstuffed with HP. So taking that into account the problem is not that we'd die instantly if we got hit, but that we become a problem to the healers if we get hit too often. Our survivability lies in our huge amount of HP. I like that the druid is different in that fact alone. Our armor is also bloated so the idea it seems is that our survivability lies in the fact that yes we will get hit, but not as hard. And when we get hit often, we have enough hp to last until MANY MANY MANY heals come.

My fear is that Blizzard will also agree with you and will eventually reduce our hp, reduce our dodge and stack on some other form of damage mitigation.

To tank X boss should mean that a healer should have to only use X amount of mana on equally geared tanks. If we look at it from this point of view, giving us increased healing could make for leveling the playing field without making us furry-warriors on four legs. So yes, we take more damage, but we also get more healing.

I like being a druid tank with bloated HP and Armor, make those work for the raid and problem is solved... perhaps?

[Cerus]

The extra healing would definitely end up being problematic if not overpowered but a good idea nonetheless. I worry about the same thing that any change or new stat were given would result in a nerf to our armor and health. But I honestly don't think Blizzard would be that idiotic to take away what makes a Druid tank unique. I think it's more likely that our HP and armor would be reduced just slightly to compensate for the new stat and I would imagine they are thinking of something along the lines of pure mitigation.

I would guess that they are shooting for something that would solve the issue that once we are at a certain % of dodge we go for stam. All other tanks have a multitude of choices when it comes to stats and gems and they scale far far better.

If the benchmark average HP for a Druid is 35k and armor 30k then I would be happy if they knocked off a few thousand on the HP and slightly less on the armor. That is of course if we were compensated with a better scaling stat. I'm sure we will hear more in the next few weeks or so.

[Serai]

the healing wouldnt be bad, but agi is already a tanking stat for druids

so if something really new comes it wont be stam/agi/armor/dodge
how the hell arp or haste reduces dmg takes is beyond me tough

[Tany]

But I honestly don't think Blizzard would be that idiotic to take away what makes a Druid tank unique. I think it's more likely that our HP and armor would be reduced just slight to compensate for the new stat and I would imagine they are thinking of something along the lines of pure mitigation.

I can see it now in a blue post.

GC: Druids tanks can now stay in caster form, wear plate armor and use a shield. Oh, they don't get the armor boost from leather and probably shouldn't wear it for tanking now. Ooh ooh and swipe has been replaced with the thing warriors do.

BAH!

[superflystud]

My idea -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=37023.0

[vayron]

I can see it now in a blue post.

GC: Druids tanks can now stay in caster form, wear plate armor and use a shield. Oh, they don't get the armor boost from leather and probably shouldn't wear it for tanking now. Ooh ooh and swipe has been replaced with the thing warriors do.

BAH!

I lol'd. Pure win.

Should've added that we can dual wield staves.

Going back to a few other posts, I don't think Blizzards intentions are to give us something new and nerf what we already have. The intentions of this are to keep us on par with other tank classes. Giving us a new trick and taking away an old one or reducing its power negates any intended benefit.

I believe that Blizz is planning to give us something small. If its an existing stat like block/parry, it would be in small amounts. Enough to bring us on par with other tank classes.

Whatever this new ability is going to be, I believe it will be intended to compliment, not replace, our existing strengths and reduce weaknesses that are expected to arise once T8 gear/content is available.

[Ntrails]

2 choices:

Avoidence/mitigation.

45% avoidence is pretty big - I do not see them wanting ferals to go far beyond that (see sunwell radiance)

So mitigation is clearly the better choice. How will they do that without armour?

Personally - I would make protector of the pack scale with a stat (strength/ap/SPIRIT) and balance with that. Just my opinion.

[superflystud]

Personally - I would make protector of the pack scale with a stat (strength/ap/SPIRIT) and balance with that. Just my opinion.

Lol that's what I said...

[baseball]

having PotP scale with a stat causes its own problems, though. Even factoring in assumed diminishing returns, it would be impossible to tune it to be useful at entry levels without being hopelessly Overpowered post ulduar. PotP uses a flat damage reduction by percentage. having that scale would just be impossible to balance, because you will inevitably have that one bear druid that hits 98% damage reduction.

Honestly having healing on bears scale with stamina/agi is your best option. That's a simple rewrite of nurturing instincts, it stops bears from being hopeless mana sponges post naxx, and it doesn't involve introducing a complicated new stat to balance around. It doesn't stop warriors and paladins from whining that our hit-point epeen is significantly larger and thicker than theirs, though.


The only other idea I've liked is adding a damage absorption mechanic (call it block for simplicity sake) added to ArP or haste.

[Ntrails]

Lol that's what I said...

Aye - I did see your post after I read this one a lol'd. On the other hand /slap fro starting a new thread on the same bloody topic.

Increasing healing done might have its own issues - since it will scale rather oddly (on account of 'double bubble'). An interesting idea without doubt.

I see what you mean about PotP - but the counter is that at entry levels at the moment it is not exactly a vital talent due to the ease of instances etc. Tbh, I am mostly interested to see how blizz will do it, and how they'll stop bears just maxing stamina with no dim returns issue. 100k tank anyone?

[Cerus]

I don't have the inclination or the patience at the moment to brainstorm how they could balance it out but I do believe they are looking at either introducing

A) a completely new "stat" or mechanic that doesn't exist (less likely due to sharing gear with Rogues)
B) giving us an existing stat that we haven't had before like Parry (IE Random talent C ....and also increases your parry rating by blah blah) or
C) working with an existing but low priority stat that exists on leather gear to have it convert into some kind of defensive stat.

I definitely love the epeen side of having the highest HP for a Tank and would hate to see that go but I think they could get away with a slight reduction without too much fuss. I would certainly love to have a bit more options when it comes to tanking stats. "Do I want a bit more of this stat or am I good there and could use a bit more here or there?" That's a question Druid Tanks for sure need to be able to ask.

I don't think were in any danger or losing our highest HP and Armor trophy but we do need something new that will scale into the near future and beyond. I think option B or C are the best choices of the ones I can think of.

[Tany]

The more I dream at work, the more I like the + healing idea. Nuturing Instincts can work off of Expertise and it doesn't have to be just a %. It can work much like spell power does, but just benefit the druid tank.

I think adding a all new def stat to work toward will really change druids. A close second would be a good use for thorns. Too many ideas are swirling in my head and none of them make sense when I write them on paper so I'll skip it for now.

But here's a slightly off topic/ on topic thought. An AoE root for bears concerning AoE tanking. Make it a radius about 5yds from the caster and it'll hold mobs for X amount of damage. That would help grab those mobs that like to run right behind you from jumping on the trigger happy hunter before you can turn and swipe at them. If not a root, then let the AoE vines slow mobs down that run past your circle of vines.

[xebtria]

But here's a slightly off topic/ on topic thought. An AoE root for bears concerning AoE tanking. Make it a radius about 5yds from the caster and it'll hold mobs for X amount of damage. That would help grab those mobs that like to run right behind you from jumping on the trigger happy hunter before you can turn and swipe at them. If not a root, then let the AoE vines slow mobs down that run past your circle of vines.

I like this idea, it reminds me on this spell from Titan quest (hack'n'slay RPG)
http://titanquest.4players.de/mn_dornenhecke.php

yeah, it's a german page, but trying to translate:

thorn hedge:
a protecting bush of thorn plants arises around the character. the enemy cannot permeat this.

thorn hedge has a life bar and a life duration, and does retaliation damage to all enemys trying to permeat it until it wears off or is being destroyed.


yeah, of course it is not possible to implement it 1:1 into WoW (simply because WoW has no collision detect for any player or spells ;-) ), but I think the idea should be clear. maybe some kind of movement, attack and spellcasting penalty while standing in it plus any kind of dot while trying to move while in it (like a mixture of hurricane (movement, attack, spellcast penalty) and death&decay (AoE dot without being channeled) or something like that)
combine this with roots optic just without fixing the player on a specific place, and voila, here's this spell

the more I review the written text, I like this idea more

[Furo]

I can see it now in a blue post.

GC: Druids tanks can now stay in caster form, wear plate armor and use a shield. Oh, they don't get the armor boost from leather and probably shouldn't wear it for tanking now. Ooh ooh and swipe has been replaced with the thing warriors do.

BAH!

^ Tbh the good thing about it would be that we could actually see our sexy t7.5 gear, finally!
Edit: To add something constructive to this, I think it would be nice to let us bears parry. It scales with STR and is more than pure mitigation. And since STR for ferals can only be found on ring/neck it wont be OP at all, maybe even a little too low.

[baseball]

I think it would be nice to let us bears parry. It scales with STR and is more than pure mitigation. And since STR for ferals can only be found on ring/neck it wont be OP at all, maybe even a little too low.

I'm just worried that if they give us parry, we'll be hopelessly OP for two weeks (45% dodge and 15% parry = sad paladins and warriors) and then nerfed, retlol style. You're right that if they make it scale with STR we'd have naturally much lower parry chances, so as DR kicks in more and more for dodge, it might even out.

problem with that is that if they do that, then the old tier gear (Sunwell and BT stuff) becomes insanely powerful because it's LOADED with strength. Even if they adjust that, like they did with prot paladin stuff in 3.0, they still run the risk of having green "of the tiger" stuff be better for tanking than tier pieces.

[Captain Midnight]

Our new mitigation mechanic should be something along the lines of "we summon Thrall to kill everything." For the Alliance...um...antlers? I dunno, I guess I haven't thought that all the way through.

[TheRabidDeer]

I hope its a form of mitigation and not avoidance (ie: block, not parry). Not only would it help in current content, but then we could actually solo old world bosses like paladins can ^_^

[Goulashia]

I think I have the most logical thing. They're probably going to do the same thing they did with DK's. DK's get parry from strength, so my guess Druids will get defense from agility.