Then we'll miss one talent point

[getefix]

For a pure dps spec you don't need Imp MotW, SI, and more than likely you shouldn't have Feral Charge. That's 4 points that you can put into Feral Aggression to use FB when you have SR and Rip up, which if you do things right should be quite often. With the change to the amount of energy drained by FB it is a more useful attack now.

imo no
as people have pointed out before, feral charge is good if you're moving from adds to a boss for dps. as well, you need brutal impact, feral charge, or nuturing instincts to progress the tree.
as well, without SI, you can't progress to mangle, unless you grab something less useful (PotP, IW, Primal Tenacity). Unless they change PotP to be cat form too, it's not useful.

I like this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9614

EDIT: and for bear, I would do http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...3&version=9614
Imp LotP > more dps imo. Threat shouldn't be an issue.

[takim]

You don't need 3/3 in improved mangle in a tank build. I don't like Master Shapeshifter in a tank build either. I would take ILotP and KotJ. I prefer the enrage dmg increase and I feel it makes for a better build when I'm in kitty form

I think Feral Aggression should be in a pure dps build. Since it is not a complete energy dump now it does make it into rotations more often. FB Still needs work but I find that a talent that affects it is more useful than SI,ILotP and Furor.

[Eilt]

Pure Kitty DPS Spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=55020203232201005312003031351120350301200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00&glyph=101700010306&version=9614


Third major glyph would be Savage Roar

[Elunedra]

You don't need 3/3 in improved mangle in a tank build.

ofc u dont but its highly recommended for single target tps

[takim]

ofc u dont but its highly recommended for single target tps

I should have clarified. 2/3 is more than enough. That .5s really does not matter all that much and threat is hardly an issue.

[Deleted]

You don't need 3/3 in improved mangle in a tank build. I don't like Master Shapeshifter in a tank build either. I would take ILotP and KotJ. I prefer the enrage dmg increase and I feel it makes for a better build when I'm in kitty form

I think Feral Aggression should be in a pure dps build. Since it is not a complete energy dump now it does make it into rotations more often. FB Still needs work but I find that a talent that affects it is more useful than SI,ILotP and Furor.

I should have clarified. 2/3 is more than enough. That .5s really does not matter all that much and threat is hardly an issue.

King of the jungle is a cat talent. You wouldn't want to waste it for bear, and 4% more damage in bear is a lot better than the 2,5% extra damage overall from KotJ and the more damage you will take.

Second, taking 2/3 imp. mangle is just daft. Your global cooldown is 1,5 seconds, so if you have 1 point or 2 points, your mangle cooldown is just the same really. Its either 3 or 0. I prefer 0, and use my talents on something else.

[Chastise]

why does no one include Protector of the Pack in their "pure" dps builds...

imo 6% more attack power for 3 talent pts is better than 4 % crit for 5 talent pts...

they changed the attack power so now it works in cat form...i guess im just a little curious...

i just threw this together quickly but im pretty sure its the best dps spec (crit is a non issue for me being over 50-55% in raids)

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...6&version=9614

[Hosebee]

Couple points, in defense of not having charge in a dps build, how many bosses/mobs actually do a knockback in raiding if you're possitioned correctly? I can think of maybe 2 instances where kitty charge is somewhat useful. Also note that I actually have it in my own spec was just pointing out some other options.

In addition I'm reading the Imp MotW to work like Kings so if there is no paladin you get the non improved Kings buff. Not that it gives you the attributes without casting the spell. That means that it's still a resto talent.

[Chastise]

No, they changed the tooltip once...the AP is in cat and bear, the damage reduction is just bear...it was in a blue post a while ago

[Biznick]

is the 2% buff to stats from imp MoTW only active when the buff is on, or is it a passive buff from the talent?


if it's only active whil the buff is on, theres not much reason to even spec into at all if you know you're raiding with a resto druid.

[conscript]

No, they changed the tooltip once...the AP is in cat and bear, the damage reduction is just bear...it was in a blue post a while ago

AP only applies to bear form. Feel free to spend 100g proving me wrong if you don't believe it.

[getefix]

Couple points, in defense of not having charge in a dps build, how many bosses/mobs actually do a knockback in raiding if you're possitioned correctly? I can think of maybe 2 instances where kitty charge is somewhat useful. Also note that I actually have it in my own spec was just pointing out some other options.

back to gluth from zombies
back to anub from the adds after locust swarm
back to sarth after a flame wall
back to maex after being web wrapped
back to loatheb after a spore
onto gothik after gates open(although should have sprint)
going between four horsemen
back to grobbulus after getting poison or OTing adds
onto arch if ya don't mind the cloud :P
i've never thought about thaddius but it might work if you stand at the back of his hitbox?
could use it when going back to saph after ice block but i doubt you would want to get there before your tank
all heroic bosses aside

there's more than 2 :P

[takim]

King of the jungle is a cat talent. You wouldn't want to waste it for bear, and 4% more damage in bear is a lot better than the 2,5% extra damage overall from KotJ and the more damage you will take.

Second, taking 2/3 imp. mangle is just daft. Your global cooldown is 1,5 seconds, so if you have 1 point or 2 points, your mangle cooldown is just the same really. Its either 3 or 0. I prefer 0, and use my talents on something else.

That is why I said it makes for a better build when I go kitty and the damage from the enrage debuff is negligible when you consider raid buffs.

In addition I'm reading the Imp MotW to work like Kings so if there is no paladin you get the non improved Kings buff. Not that it gives you the attributes without casting the spell. That means that it's still a resto talent.

So your saying that 2/2 of the talent will get you a 40% more powerful MotW and then add 2% more too it? I don't read it that way. I do not think they would word it that way if it that was the case however we are talking about blizz here.
Still doesn't change the fact that furor is still pretty useless in most situations and taking IMotW would be a better benefit in solo/group play.

[Rawf]

I didn't realise the AP in PotP worked in cat form too.

Redone pure dps spec http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...6&version=9614

Bear form spec is a bit hard..

[Nathanyel]

You don't need 3/3 in improved mangle in a tank build.

Pure. Fail.

And no, the AP from PotP applies to Bear only.

A quick Cat build I put together yesterday, FR glyph because it doesn't know the Berserk glyph yet, don't know where to put in the SR glyph, probably replaces Mangle, no Feral Aggression because, hey, Rip can crit, no IW because we're in a raid with at least one warrior.

[takim]

I didn't realise the AP in PotP worked in cat form too.

Redone pure dps spec http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...6&version=9614

Bear form spec is a bit hard..

PotP does not work in cat form. period. end of story. It has already been said many times. There are posts floating all over the place that proves this. I'd like to know where people are getting this kind of information.

Pure. Fail.

Explain Nulgar and tps is not an answer. If you need full 3/3 mangle to keep threat then you fail.

Edit: Nevermind. I see 0/71/0 is clearly THE build to have. /sarcasm

[Hosebee]

If I remember correctly mangle-bear has a 1.5 second GCD not a standard 1 second, hence the extra .5 seconds off mangle cd brings it more in line with a standard every GCD rotation. That could have changed and I could be wrong but I seem to remember that.

[silenpengu]

i believe this is true

[Solux]

It annoys me how every time Druid talents come up for discussion, people fail at basic English.

Survival of the Fittest reads: Increases all attributes by 2/4/6%, reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 2/4/6%, and increases your armor contribution from cloth and leather items in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by 11/22/33%.

Note where the comma before and is, it's important. What it says is all forms have 2-6% increased attributes and chance to be critted reduced by 2-6%. The armor contribution only applies to Bear and Dire Bear form because those are the only subjects in that sentence fragment.


Protector of the Pack reads: Increases your attack power by 6% and reduces the damage you take by 12% while in Bear or Dire Bear Form.

The whole sentence is the same form as the last fragment, because there is no comma Bear and Dire Bear Form are the ONLY subjects here, meaning the extra attack power applies only to Bear/Dire Bear and not also to Cat/Moonkin/Caster/Tree/Travel/Flight/Aquatic Form. This has been repeatedly confirmed.

I haven't seen enough testing on Lacerate with Savage Defense, but the initial calculations were taking the initial application of Lacerate as able to crit and therefore proc the shield, but the ticks not able to crit and therefore not able to proc the shield, I can see this being kept consistent, otherwise Lacerate goes down in usefulness or we can potentially proc the shield more often than intended.

[The Cat]

It annoys me how every time Druid talents come up for discussion, people fail at basic English.

Survival of the Fittest reads: Increases all attributes by 2/4/6%, reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee attacks by 2/4/6%, and increases your armor contribution from cloth and leather items in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by 11/22/33%.

Note where the comma before and is, it's important. What it says is all forms have 2-6% increased attributes and chance to be critted reduced by 2-6%. The armor contribution only applies to Bear and Dire Bear form because those are the only subjects in that sentence fragment.


Protector of the Pack reads: Increases your attack power by 6% and reduces the damage you take by 12% while in Bear or Dire Bear Form.

The whole sentence is the same form as the last fragment, because there is no comma Bear and Dire Bear Form are the ONLY subjects here, meaning the extra attack power applies only to Bear/Dire Bear and not also to Cat/Moonkin/Caster/Tree/Travel/Flight/Aquatic Form. This has been repeatedly confirmed.

I haven't seen enough testing on Lacerate with Savage Defense, but the initial calculations were taking the initial application of Lacerate as able to crit and therefore proc the shield, but the ticks not able to crit and therefore not able to proc the shield, I can see this being kept consistent, otherwise Lacerate goes down in usefulness or we can potentially proc the shield more often than intended. I'd also like to know if FFF can proc the shield, since it can also crit.

While I agree with everything you said, it amuses me that you ask if FFF would proc the shield since in the description it says melee crits.