Combat Compendium

[bbr]

I'm going to toss a bone in here and say:
* [Golden Saronite Dragon] http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45132
* [Golem-Shard Sticker] http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45246
This is currently the best weapon combination we can get until 3.2 is implemented.
Then, combined with [Conqueror's Terrorblade Breastplate] + 2 expertise talent points, we'd have 105 expertise rating = 3 rating over the cap.
Best all round.

Another option for the offhand would be : [Combatant's Bootblade] http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45930
This gives less dps, but is a 1.4 speed dagger. Not sure which of the 2 daggers would be better in the end though. Due to 3 exp rating wasted, and a potential extra stat on the second dagger, the bootblade may actually be better. Personally, I think I'd go for the bootblade rather, the speed would ensure better poison procs, which are a large part of your dps nowadays.


Maces seem to be slightly behind, in terms of MAEP at least, and swords, just won't cut it.

when peoples goes to arguments not related to the main topic

On another note, If you want to be taken seriously, don't write like an idiot.
Aside that it's near incomprehensible to begin with, most people will just skip your post and discard your writings as just another frustrated 12 year old.

Register here : http://elitistjerks.com/forums.php
And write a few posts in the way you did here. If you're not banned for general idiocy within a week, I'll personally send you a few K gold.

Thanks.

[Floxior]

@Gafo: Well I am a Combat Rouge too and I can hold repture on my enemy without anyproblems
@ Shadowfade: Well 5k DPS but I also made so much DPS without the KS and AR glyph I do 5,3k DPS in much trys at bosses like Mimiron. So I am wondering, and my Spreadsheet ist telling me to that I would made more DPS with SND glyph.

But atm I have one glyphe in my eyes its the rougedeal glyphe if you have a 2nd rouge in the raid you would able to buff each other with it if you use it everytime if its ready you have a big DPS boost.
With that glyph it would be much bigger.

[capi1216]

Hey everyone,

Hoping you're all enjoying the top positions on the meters as much as I am

I have been searching around for the top combat build between the 3 we have. I have noticed people saying that 15/51/5 is greater than the rest w/ 18/51/2 being last however, w/ the modified vulajin spreadsheet and my gear (im not BiS but have a few pieces that are) i'm showing 18/51/2 higher than the rest. Also, since 15/51/5 scales better w/ buffs etc than 7/51/13 wouldnt 18/51/2 scale better than both of them considering that other than the 13 in sub, 18/51/2 has the same points as the others PLUS better poisons?

If anyone can clear this up for me I'd be super grateful!

Thx

Capi

[elapadrinar]

died atleast 3 times in ulduar last night cos of wrongly timed KS... "oh now`s the time, shiiit! Eye beams on me!...

I heard you could killing spree during Kolgoran.

[Auchinfail]

I have been searching around for the top combat build between the 3 we have. I have noticed people saying that 15/51/5 is greater than the rest w/ 18/51/2 being last however, w/ the modified vulajin spreadsheet i'm showing 18/51/2 higher than the rest.

This hold true for me as well.

Ive been running 15/51/5, but switched over to 18/51/2 last night after crunching said spreadsheet.

Anyone have any energy starving problems with only 2/5 RS?

[Ashmodan]

I heard you could killing spree during Kolgoran.

Well dunno if we got adds atm. Or confused about that trash pull with giants who throws those red circles on the ground ect.

[capi1216]

Anyone have any energy starving problems with only 2/5 RS?

I can honestly say that there isn't once that I feel I need more energy. W/ the 15/51/5 i used to have alot of time left on SnD and Rupture w/ already eviscerating and having that awkward moment when you've evis'd have 3/4 combo points but have 5 seconds on SnD and 4 secs on Rupture.... w/ 18/51/2 seems more stable to me...SnD, Rupture, Evis, SnD etc... not SnD Rupture Evis EVis(?) SnD....

[Voij]

Hey everyone,

Hoping you're all enjoying the top positions on the meters as much as I am

I have been searching around for the top combat build between the 3 we have. I have noticed people saying that 15/51/5 is greater than the rest w/ 18/51/2 being last however, w/ the modified vulajin spreadsheet and my gear (im not BiS but have a few pieces that are) i'm showing 18/51/2 higher than the rest. Also, since 15/51/5 scales better w/ buffs etc than 7/51/13 wouldnt 18/51/2 scale better than both of them considering that other than the 13 in sub, 18/51/2 has the same points as the others PLUS better poisons?

If anyone can clear this up for me I'd be super grateful!

Thx

Capi

Iirc 18/51/2>15/51/5>7/51/13 in Naxx-Gear.

About the scaling, I believe it was said that 15/51/5 scales better than 18/51/2 and thus you'd pick 15/51/5 with full Ulduar-Gear. Still not sure where 7/51/13 lands with 4pc T8, I think it's not gonna be all that great though, simply because the Bosses I've seen so far and not all that Rupture-friendly. (Can't always stand close to some Bosses, lot's of Adds to kill fast, etc.)

[capi1216]

Iirc 18/51/2>15/51/5>7/51/13 in Naxx-Gear.

About the scaling, I believe it was said that 15/51/5 scales better than 18/51/2 and thus you'd pick 15/51/5 with full Ulduar-Gear. Still not sure where 7/51/13 lands with 4pc T8, I think it's not gonna be all that great though, simply because the Bosses I've seen so far and not all that Rupture-friendly. (Can't always stand close to some Bosses, lot's of Adds to kill fast, etc.)

See that's where I get lost... I dont understand how 18/51 wont scale like 15/51... i mean, what exactly does 5 points over 2 points in Relentless strikes change? I know RS is a GREAT talent that should not be gone w/o but right now w/ 2 points, its doing its thing... I was thinking, if 15 in 15/51/5 scales then so will the 18 in 18/51/2.. i mean, other than the 3 extra points in sub, its basically the same build.... other than ofcourse the extra 3 for vile poisons (which should scale w/ more AP as well)... I'm going to try and see what uldular gear has been discovered and then put those in unless we know what's best in slot for combat already... I just cant comprehend 5 points in RS scaling that much above 2 points....

[Voij]

See that's where I get lost... I dont understand how 18/51 wont scale like 15/51... i mean, what exactly does 5 points over 2 points in Relentless strikes change? I know RS is a GREAT talent that should not be gone w/o but right now w/ 2 points, its doing its thing... I was thinking, if 15 in 15/51/5 scales then so will the 18 in 18/51/2.. i mean, other than the 3 extra points in sub, its basically the same build.... other than ofcourse the extra 3 for vile poisons (which should scale w/ more AP as well)... I'm going to try and see what uldular gear has been discovered and then put those in unless we know what's best in slot for combat already... I just cant comprehend 5 points in RS scaling that much above 2 points....

Heard it from EJ, where it was stated that 4-5pc T7.5 favors 18/51/2 whereas 4-5pc T8 favors 15/51/5.

[Annoying]

Quick note @ OP:
I'd add JC gems to the blue gem slots. They really are awesome. JC's get to gem for up to 3 blue slots for free essentially.

[n0point]

Hello guys, I'd like to say that I really appreciate all the work you have done.

Most of the things said here are commong knowledge to good rogues but puting it together and updaing it as a QA thread really helps all of us i believe.

Now to continue with my question. I play an almost BiS geared(pre uld) combat 15-51-5. The only problem I have is with trinkets, as I am cheap and havent gotten the greatness yet(and probably wont with all the new gear).

I usually ran with MoT and Grim Toll and i used to love GT for its passive and proc, espcially since the proc has gone up to 40% up from 30% after 3.1. I had 306 hit total with GT equipped.

On our first Uld raid i got a very interesing trinket from FL10 - [Pyrite Infuser] - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45286
It has more passive hit then GT but has a proc for 1234 AP instead of ArP.
My first idea was to switch the GT with this new trink( PI from now on) and leave the MoT. After the raid though, i decided to do some tests.

Over 1 mil damage on a dummy, unbuffed, i usually do around 3300 dps with MoT and GT. I ran that again just to check, and then ran same period with MoT and PI - increased around 20-30 dps. Not enough testing to come to a conclusion but still some improvement.

Then I got an idea which i now would like to test and share. Using two trinks with hit, GT and PI, i still pulled around 3350 dps over 1 mil of damage, and had 400+ hit now. Both procs have cd's around 45 seconds, but are still very usefull, especially with good timing of KS.

My actual question is, am I correct in assuming that having more hit will benefit me more after being fully raid buffed, so this combination of trinkets would outperform MoT + any of them on say, patchwerk?
And it also means that I am asking a question on rogue buff mechanics in general - does stacking more hit(without losing a lot of other stats) benefit the rogue after full raid buff much more?

Sorry for this wall of text. Just thought this was an interesting thing to test out.

PS - Edited out some mistakes, sorry my english is far from perfect.

[Voij]

Hello guys, I'd like to say that I really appreciate all the work you have done.

Most of the things said here are commong knowledge to good rogues but puting it together and updaing it as a QA thread really helps all of us i believe.

Now to continue with my question. I play an almost BiS geared(pre uld) combat 15-51-5. The only problem I have is with trinkets, as I am cheap and havent gotten the greatness yet(and probably wont with all the new gear).

I usually ran with MoT and Grim Toll and i used to love GT for its passive and proc, espcially since the proc has gone up to 40% up from 30% after 3.1. I had 306 hit total with GT equipped.

On our first Uld raid i got a very interesing trinket from FL10 - [Pyrite Infuser] - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45286
It has more passive hit then GT but has a proc for 1234 AP instead of ArP.
My first idea was to switch the GT with this new trink( PI from now on) and leave the MoT. After the raid though, i decided to do some tests.

Over 1 mil damage on a dummy, unbuffed, i usually do around 3300 dps with MoT and GT. I ran that again just to check, and then ran same period with MoT and PI - increased around 20-30 dps. Not enough testing to come to a conclusion but still some improvement.

Then I got an idea which i now would like to test and share. Using two trinks with hit, GT and PI, i still pulled around 3350 dps over 1 mil of damage, and had 400+ hit now. Both procs have cd's around 45 seconds, but are still very usefull, especially with good timing of KS.

My actual question is, am I correct in assuming that having more hit will benefit me more after being fully raid buffed, so this combination of trinkets would outperform MoT + any of them on say, patchwerk?
And it also means that I am asking a question on rogue buff mechanics in general - does stacking more hit(without losing a lot of other stats) benefit the rogue after full raid buff much more?

Sorry for this wall of text. Just thought this was an interesting thing to test out.

PS - Edited out some mistakes, sorry my english is far from perfect.

Pyrite Infuser is simply better than MoT, nothing more to it.

That aside, the EP-values mentioned here/at EJ always expect you to have all raidbuffs, so just compare the EP-values and you're good to go.
(That aside, using both trinkets puts you at a LOT of Hit, try to exchange some of your other stuff with hit on it.)

[n0point]

Thanks a lot for a quick reply. I quess ill be swapping some chants and gems after I get home from work.

[capi1216]

I'm trying to compare the current combat builds w/ BiS Uldular gear and was curious if there is a list of items discovered already that I can use as a template to get the best combat build @ BiS or very close to it... from the spreadsheet I have, wearing full t8 and a few items marked (uldular) its looking like 18/51/2 is ahead of the rest by 37 dps and a 3/5/5 rotation... followed by 15/51/5 and then 7/51/13..

thanks!

[ant1pathy]

Annoying - I've assumed if you're a JC at the level needed to cut Dragon's Eye's you know to use them instead of purple gems. I could add it, but won't in order to punish people who manage to get to that level and don't use them.

capri1216 - BiS with what we can see is not BiS for what's out there. There's a LOT of undiscovered items still. And the difference between 18/51/2 and 15/51/5 is likely to be so small that it won't make a difference for this round of gear. Vile Poisons may end up a bit better than maxed RA, but if the smoother cycle helps me personally, so I'm sticking with RA till it's noticeable.

[ifrit]

So, I'm into Rogue theorycrafting for four years now and it's the first time I'm just plain confused about what seems to be the general opinion concerning a DPS aspect of the class: Glyph of Slice n' Dice.

I completely understand that on a certain gear level, it's easy to keep your favourite rotation up without using the SnD glyph but still..doesn't it mean that you're able to do some other things in those three seconds?

I liked the glyph right from the start, especially since its a static bonus that also applies to 1-3p SnDs, meaning the %ual addition of seconds to it is even higher than at 4-5p SnDs.


Now everyone is recommending the Killing Spree glyph and I just don't get it. To use that (quite dangerous) skill two or three more times in a fight should outweigh other glyphs? How much of my overall Dmg is Killing Spree? According to recent wws logs that value ranges from 2-4%, rarely 5%, sometimes even less since it's not possible or recommendable to use it (Kologarn..KSing Adds is just a waste of time and heal, Hodir where it puts you out of lightbeams and their buffs and maybe right into ice rocks that hit you, Yogg-Saron where you have to kick and avoid clouds in p1, face off of him in p3, auriaya with voids and sonic screech that has to hit you, hodir with chainlightning, suddenly hitting you, your tank and 4 other melees.. and so on).
Here are two wws' to look for the numbers:

http://wowwebstats.com/trt6ftdpdlzli
http://wowwebstats.com/doohgezyxzp6s

(if it's not in English, look for "Mordlust". That's Killing Spree.)


At the end of the day (fight), SnD should save me some energy (since refreshing gets postponed by 3s) and yield more dps (the 3s are used to what, get in another Eviscerate or to better cycle and therefore play more effectively). At least that is my view on it.


Anyone willing to explain to me, what makes the KS or even AR glyphs(the one I'd consider to use if I get convinced in not using SnD Glyph anymore) better respectively what makes the SnD glyph that bad?

Thanks in advance.

[Dharenna]

On spreadsheet and target dummy tests SnD glyph might be nice energy save.
But almost every 2nd encounter in Ulduar currently favors rogue who has burst
cooldowns available for every 30s to 2 min period. There you get more from KS glyph.

Few examples where KS is clearly superior choice:
- Razorscale P1 - when he lands for few seconds and heavy burst needed during this time
- XT fight when heart is exposed and it takes extra damage.
- Auriaya - well timed KS makes you immune to AoE fear, can use it at least 2-3 times per fight.
...

[Bullahr]

Im not that much of a theorycrafter, i have a combat rogue as alt and i have been able to gear him quite nicely during the first part of wotlk. I just wanted to add my 2 cents regarding KS, for me it seems that i allways stay behind the boss when i use it so the dangers by using this move isnt that big in my opinion, of course if theres more mobs nearby it gets a little dangerous, but anyway the mobs gotta die at some point dont they ?

[ifrit]

On spreadsheet and target dummy tests SnD glyph might be nice energy save.
But almost every 2nd encounter in Ulduar currently favors rogue who has burst
cooldowns available for every 30s to 2 min period. There you get more from KS glyph.

Good point and tbh one of the reasons I came here. I need to get my DPS a little up (around 6k on normal fights without extraordinary buffs/debuffs) for Thorim and Freya hard modes (and the other as well).

Few examples where KS is clearly superior choice:
- Razorscale P1 - when he lands for few seconds and heavy burst needed during this time
- XT fight when heart is exposed and it takes extra damage.
- Auriaya - well timed KS makes you immune to AoE fear, can use it at least 2-3 times per fight.
...

Well, guess I should use a Spec with KS Glyph and one without it so I can appropriately switch according to the boss, but I'm also heavy into PvP and therefore need the Dual Spec for 41/5/25. :\

And you're right, KS can used on other occassions to avoid such things too like Ignis flametrash, Ignis when he uses Flame Jets, Razor to squeeze a little extra damage when she flies up again (like with Sapph) or Freya's Roots in Hardmode.
On the other hand we have enough fights where you get punished for using KS, think of Mimiron P4 when you KS and get destroyed by a almost invisible rocket that lands directly beneath him.

Anything else on the DPS math that I overlooked that makes it plain superior anyways, not regarding perhaps needed burst-DPS in some fights?