3.2 Talent ideas

[wintervictor]

why this ability not modified into WOW

Mass Resurrection:
Resurrect max 6 fallen allies to play, however they will suffer 50% penalty to damage, healing and HP, after 30s they will go eternal rest.

And now...which tree shall i put in..

[DaGhostDS]

Paladins should get nerfed not buffed... except holy pally i consider them needing an Aoe healing effect that would be proper and not overpowered to use on raids and slightly on pvp.

right... you sure you play the same game?

[Astray]

Ret could use some changes, especially against healers. History repeats itself, great against targets with low resilience, bad against healers with a lot of resilience.

[Nd]

Id love a HoT of some sort. Please.

No. Roll a druid then.

[Qorpse]

Well I figured since Judgement now hits like a dead horse, we would maybe see something in that regard.

Have you ever been hit with a dead horse? Not a pretty road I would want to go down. They weigh anywhere from 850-2000 lbs depending on the breed. Now, if it was dead, I am sure stiffness has set in which means you are technically getting hit by a Volkswagen (I checked the weight of both VW's and horses on Wikipedia and they are similar) and in all honesty, at that point, no talent points would be needed. You can hit people with dead horses, that's imbalanced.

-Qorpse

[Lofes]

Have you ever been hit with a dead horse? Not a pretty road I would want to go down. They weigh anywhere from 850-2000 lbs depending on the breed. Now, if it was dead, I am sure stiffness has set in which means you are technically getting hit by a Volkswagen (I checked the weight of both VW's and horses on Wikipedia and they are similar) and in all honesty, at that point, no talent points would be needed. You can hit people with dead horses, that's imbalanced.

-Qorpse

You sir, are now my hero.

/@Topic ....All paladins currently feeling underpowered..... go kill yourself.

[Horn]

[color=navy]-Avatar of Retribution- :Increases the holy damage you deal by 15% and decreases physical damage taken by 15%. You may not cast any direct healing spells while in this form. In addition your Righteous Vengance and concencration deal additional damage equal to your spell critical strike chance percent.

Ret version of Shadowform

/@Topic ....All paladins currently feeling underpowered..... go kill yourself.

Thats what SoM/SoB is for, sir.

[Lofes]

[color=navy]-Avatar of Retribution- :Increases the holy damage you deal by 15% and decreases physical damage taken by 15%. You may not cast any direct healing spells while in this form. In addition your Righteous Vengance and concencration deal additional damage equal to your spell critical strike chance percent.

Ret version of Shadowform Thats what SoM/SoB is for, sir.

Posting in blue to look cool? Kk.

And please don't cry about SoM/SoB it does shitloads of DMG and ignores 100% Armor... the recoil is neglectable if you consider the instantheals you can throw on yourself all the time.. don't know any other DPS classes you see in arena that can heal themselves for substantial amounts and dish out trucks - or shall we say "dead horses" - of DMG at the same time... PLUS the fact that with the SOB glyph you will get extra mana which you dont even need... I remember a time when ret was about actually being able to play and having mana management...

[Horn]

Posting in blue to look cool? Kk.

And please don't cry about SoM/SoB it does shitloads of DMG and ignores 100% Armor... the recoil is neglectable if you consider the instantheals you can throw on yourself all the time.. don't know any other DPS classes you see in arena that can heal themselves for substantial amounts and dish out trucks - or shall we say "dead horses" - of DMG at the same time... PLUS the fact that with the SOB glyph you will get extra mana which you dont even need... I remember a time when ret was about actually being able to play and having mana management...

1. Fear blue text
2. SoM/SoB do not do *shit loads* of damage, try again
3. *instantheals*? Right, ill reset my swing timer to do even more shitty dps
4. Ret can't heal *substantial* ammounts
5. Yes, ret does alot of damage to targets with 100 resilience or lower
6. SoB glyph currently increases mana regened through SA from 10%=>11%, huge right?
7. By "mana managment" do you mean using dark runes/mana potions/Blessing of sacrifice/seal of wisdom/standing in the fire constantly? Because that had nothing to do with "Being able to play".

Get informed.

[Langebrød]

1. Fear blue text
2. SoM/SoB do not do *shit loads* of damage, try again
3. *instantheals*? Right, ill reset my swing timer to do even more shitty dps
4. Ret can't heal *substantial* ammounts
5. Yes, ret does alot of damage to targets with 100 resilience or lower
6. SoB glyph currently increases mana regened through SA from 10%=>11%, huge right?
7. By "mana managment" do you mean using dark runes/mana potions/Blessing of sacrifice/seal of wisdom/standing in the fire constantly? Because that had nothing to do with "Being able to play".

Get informed.

rofl

[Lofes]

1. Fear blue text
2. SoM/SoB do not do *shit loads* of damage, try again
3. *instantheals*? Right, ill reset my swing timer to do even more shitty dps
4. Ret can't heal *substantial* ammounts
5. Yes, ret does alot of damage to targets with 100 resilience or lower
6. SoB glyph currently increases mana regened through SA from 10%=>11%, huge right?
7. By "mana managment" do you mean using dark runes/mana potions/Blessing of sacrifice/seal of wisdom/standing in the fire constantly? Because that had nothing to do with "Being able to play".

Get informed.

Ok, lets follow your lead..

1. No.. it just makes you look stupid.
2. Actually.. I think it does.. Ever been critted for upwards of 6k every 8 seconds? Thats me, And i wear ~600 resil.
3. Ok reset you swing timer, who gives a fuck.. white hits are the least part of your _PVP_ Damage..(We are talking about pvp here I hope you noticed..)
4. Ever played vs ret? Coz I remember quite a few times when a ret would pop bubble and heal his mate to full with 2 heals.
5. See Above.. Just to Clarify.. a ret will destroy me in about 5 seconds when I have no cds left - without hoj aswell and well me vs him were talking about 10-15 to get him to bubble 12 for bubble then another 10-15 this is of course in a 1v1 situation.

Talking in lets say 2v2 it looks like this:
Either I'm with a healer (last comp I was playing was destro/shs(or mut/sd) but the dmg is unhealable for even short periods of time.
Or I'm with a DPS (see above.) Meaning I get wtfpwned in said time (about 5sec)
Now, Of course the ret wont be DPSing me all the time (evasion/stuns/fears/time healing/cloak/vanish what ever) but the one time he gets me, I'm Fucking dead. (30sec hoj anyone? = I avoid 2 if I'm lucky (Chance cloak) and then Die. (at the latest - usually earlyer)
But ofc to consider ive got a partner - he has one too, usually a shaman --> Less cc (tremor/grounding) + we wont be on him we'll be on the shaman who will - hopefully - die during melee bubble if not, GG we lose.
If its a second DPS - probably rogue it all comes down to if I get the fh or the other rogue if he does - im dead if he dosnt he's dead and we will kill the ret 2v1)

Ofc there are other comps rets play with - these are just examples.

6. Oh yeah whine about your perma-full mana pool, seriously.
7. No I mean using SoB (I'm horde i don't know about alliance), using mana pots JoW should be on the boss anyway and I'm pretty sure that using BoS to get extra dmg would be classed as "Being able to play" and I know for a fact our ret in SW pulled good dps and well great support (means shit now I know..) and he never whined about problems with mana. (no he didnt have a spriest)

So.. either you suck (http://wowwebstats.com/fhhlcvq14jvei?s=311613-340560 looks like a pretty good ret - oh snap 5.8k dps on patch) or you are uninformed or a troll.

Basically I agree with the "rofl", and stand by my statement.. any paladin feeling underpowered should kill themselves, because paladins in general - and rets are far from balanced

Now, before you flame me with omg1500 ect.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...27jin&n=strafe - my rogue
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=felos - my (retired after bc because paladins are rediculous) paladin - oh look a gladiator (no not as ret but I played 2k+ in 2s as ret)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=tzyar - my warrior - oh look another gladiator maybe this guy actually has some experience in arenas

Posted you a perfectly good wws so you can see that rets are fine pve wise, dont think I need any proof for holy pve or pvp and to sum it all up http://www.arenajunkies.com/char/US/...jaeden/Euneek/ a ret with 2.6/2.4/2.2 ratings in 2v2/3v3/5v5 respectively.

So, Get informed.

/edit: Woah, Like WHOJAAAAAAA back the fuck up here - I just saw you play 1530 with 52 games and you have a betrayer... aiiiiiieeee im blind, why did I even spend time writing this post. /wrist

/edit^2(I remembered some shit): 2 more things
1. 90% of all paladins now weren't paladins before 3.0 and only rerolled coz of imba ret on betarealm and even if they were palas they all sucked - how many palas were there in highrated arena - thats right, not alot look at shit now.. (http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/ lets play count the paladins)
2. Palas whining for more atm is just so rediculous look at the improvements palas got from bc (where palas were fine) to wotlk. (rediculous - and moreso in 3.1 aura mastery anyone?) Just like a bunch of spoilt brats that cant get enough sweets, i hope all you idiots get massive metaphoric tooth decay.

[Kishin]

After this wall of text, back to the topic.

*Note: I've posted this before in another thread but i thought it fits good in here as well*


Seal Mastery

Adds an additional passive effect to the paladin's seal.


Seal of Light: Increases spellcrit and healing caused by 3%.

Seal of Wisdom: Increases haste by 3% and reduces mana cost of all spells by 3%.

Seal of Righteousness: Seal damage caused is now capable of critical hitting. Also increases your spellpower by 3%.

Seal of Vengeance/Corrpution: Now causes holy damage every 2,5 seconds (down from 3,0 sec). Also increases block chance by 3%.

Seal of Command: Increases seal-activation rate by 33%. In addition, your automatic attacks have a chance to increase the next seal damage by 50%

Seal of Blood/Martyr: 10% of the seals backlash is converted to mana. In addition, when the seal damages you there is a chance that the next Divine Storm will cause holy damage. 33% of the damage caused by this Divine Storm will cause damage to yourself.

Either implent this talent deep into every tree, so every spec can get access to it, or split the effects into separate talents per seal and toss them across the 3 trees.


Maybe something like:

Deep Holy: Wisdom and Light
Baseline Holy: Righteousness
Deep Prot: Vengeance/Corruption
Deep Ret: Command and Blood/Martyr


Nice-to-have for all paladin speccs.
Iunno if some suck a bit or are too OP, but maybe some of you will get the idea.

[Vazor]

Ok, lets follow your lead..

1. No.. it just makes you look stupid.
2. Actually.. I think it does.. Ever been critted for upwards of 6k every 8 seconds? Thats me, And i wear ~600 resil.
3. Ok reset you swing timer, who gives a fuck.. white hits are the least part of your _PVP_ Damage..(We are talking about pvp here I hope you noticed..)
4. Ever played vs ret? Coz I remember quite a few times when a ret would pop bubble and heal his mate to full with 2 heals.
5. See Above.. Just to Clarify.. a ret will destroy me in about 5 seconds when I have no cds left - without hoj aswell and well me vs him were talking about 10-15 to get him to bubble 12 for bubble then another 10-15 this is of course in a 1v1 situation.

Talking in lets say 2v2 it looks like this:
Either I'm with a healer (last comp I was playing was destro/shs(or mut/sd) but the dmg is unhealable for even short periods of time.
Or I'm with a DPS (see above.) Meaning I get wtfpwned in said time (about 5sec)
Now, Of course the ret wont be DPSing me all the time (evasion/stuns/fears/time healing/cloak/vanish what ever) but the one time he gets me, I'm Fucking dead. (30sec hoj anyone? = I avoid 2 if I'm lucky (Chance cloak) and then Die. (at the latest - usually earlyer)
But ofc to consider ive got a partner - he has one too, usually a shaman --> Less cc (tremor/grounding) + we wont be on him we'll be on the shaman who will - hopefully - die during melee bubble if not, GG we lose.
If its a second DPS - probably rogue it all comes down to if I get the fh or the other rogue if he does - im dead if he dosnt he's dead and we will kill the ret 2v1)

Ofc there are other comps rets play with - these are just examples.

6. Oh yeah whine about your perma-full mana pool, seriously.
7. No I mean using SoB (I'm horde i don't know about alliance), using mana pots JoW should be on the boss anyway and I'm pretty sure that using BoS to get extra dmg would be classed as "Being able to play" and I know for a fact our ret in SW pulled good dps and well great support (means shit now I know..) and he never whined about problems with mana. (no he didnt have a spriest)

So.. either you suck (http://wowwebstats.com/fhhlcvq14jvei?s=311613-340560 looks like a pretty good ret - oh snap 5.8k dps on patch) or you are uninformed or a troll.

Basically I agree with the "rofl", and stand by my statement.. any paladin feeling underpowered should kill themselves, because paladins in general - and rets are far from balanced

Now, before you flame me with omg1500 ect.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...27jin&n=strafe - my rogue
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=felos - my (retired after bc because paladins are rediculous) paladin - oh look a gladiator (no not as ret but I played 2k+ in 2s as ret)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=tzyar - my warrior - oh look another gladiator maybe this guy actually has some experience in arenas

Posted you a perfectly good wws so you can see that rets are fine pve wise, dont think I need any proof for holy pve or pvp and to sum it all up http://www.arenajunkies.com/char/US/...jaeden/Euneek/ a ret with 2.6/2.4/2.2 ratings in 2v2/3v3/5v5 respectively.

So, Get informed.

/edit: Woah, Like WHOJAAAAAAA back the fuck up here - I just saw you play 1530 with 52 games and you have a betrayer... aiiiiiieeee im blind, why did I even spend time writing this post. /wrist

/edit^2(I remembered some shit): 2 more things
1. 90% of all paladins now weren't paladins before 3.0 and only rerolled coz of imba ret on betarealm and even if they were palas they all sucked - how many palas were there in highrated arena - thats right, not alot look at shit now.. (http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/ lets play count the paladins)
2. Palas whining for more atm is just so rediculous look at the improvements palas got from bc (where palas were fine) to wotlk. (rediculous - and moreso in 3.1 aura mastery anyone?) Just like a bunch of spoilt brats that cant get enough sweets, i hope all you idiots get massive metaphoric tooth decay.

QQ moar roll a pally if you are so jealous of our OPness.

Update: In Malygos: 2 sparks + Avenging Wrath + me at 7k hp currently + judgment of the martyr crit = dead

[Abandon]

Who would have thought that using a skill that damages you based on the damage you do during a fight with a lot of AoE and massive damage buffs could end badly.

[Horn]

Ok, lets follow your lead..

1. No.. it just makes you look stupid.
2. Actually.. I think it does.. Ever been critted for upwards of 6k every 8 seconds? Thats me, And i wear ~600 resil.
3. Ok reset you swing timer, who gives a fuck.. white hits are the least part of your _PVP_ Damage..(We are talking about pvp here I hope you noticed..)
4. Ever played vs ret? Coz I remember quite a few times when a ret would pop bubble and heal his mate to full with 2 heals.
5. See Above.. Just to Clarify.. a ret will destroy me in about 5 seconds when I have no cds left - without hoj aswell and well me vs him were talking about 10-15 to get him to bubble 12 for bubble then another 10-15 this is of course in a 1v1 situation.

Talking in lets say 2v2 it looks like this:
Either I'm with a healer (last comp I was playing was destro/shs(or mut/sd) but the dmg is unhealable for even short periods of time.
Or I'm with a DPS (see above.) Meaning I get wtfpwned in said time (about 5sec)
Now, Of course the ret wont be DPSing me all the time (evasion/stuns/fears/time healing/cloak/vanish what ever) but the one time he gets me, I'm Fucking dead. (30sec hoj anyone? = I avoid 2 if I'm lucky (Chance cloak) and then Die. (at the latest - usually earlyer)
But ofc to consider ive got a partner - he has one too, usually a shaman --> Less cc (tremor/grounding) + we wont be on him we'll be on the shaman who will - hopefully - die during melee bubble if not, GG we lose.
If its a second DPS - probably rogue it all comes down to if I get the fh or the other rogue if he does - im dead if he dosnt he's dead and we will kill the ret 2v1)

Ofc there are other comps rets play with - these are just examples.

6. Oh yeah whine about your perma-full mana pool, seriously.
7. No I mean using SoB (I'm horde i don't know about alliance), using mana pots JoW should be on the boss anyway and I'm pretty sure that using BoS to get extra dmg would be classed as "Being able to play" and I know for a fact our ret in SW pulled good dps and well great support (means shit now I know..) and he never whined about problems with mana. (no he didnt have a spriest)

So.. either you suck (http://wowwebstats.com/fhhlcvq14jvei?s=311613-340560 looks like a pretty good ret - oh snap 5.8k dps on patch) or you are uninformed or a troll.

Basically I agree with the "rofl", and stand by my statement.. any paladin feeling underpowered should kill themselves, because paladins in general - and rets are far from balanced

Now, before you flame me with omg1500 ect.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...27jin&n=strafe - my rogue
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=felos - my (retired after bc because paladins are rediculous) paladin - oh look a gladiator (no not as ret but I played 2k+ in 2s as ret)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=tzyar - my warrior - oh look another gladiator maybe this guy actually has some experience in arenas

Posted you a perfectly good wws so you can see that rets are fine pve wise, dont think I need any proof for holy pve or pvp and to sum it all up http://www.arenajunkies.com/char/US/...jaeden/Euneek/ a ret with 2.6/2.4/2.2 ratings in 2v2/3v3/5v5 respectively.

So, Get informed.

/edit: Woah, Like WHOJAAAAAAA back the fuck up here - I just saw you play 1530 with 52 games and you have a betrayer... aiiiiiieeee im blind, why did I even spend time writing this post. /wrist

/edit^2(I remembered some shit): 2 more things
1. 90% of all paladins now weren't paladins before 3.0 and only rerolled coz of imba ret on betarealm and even if they were palas they all sucked - how many palas were there in highrated arena - thats right, not alot look at shit now.. (http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/ lets play count the paladins)
2. Palas whining for more atm is just so rediculous look at the improvements palas got from bc (where palas were fine) to wotlk. (rediculous - and moreso in 3.1 aura mastery anyone?) Just like a bunch of spoilt brats that cant get enough sweets, i hope all you idiots get massive metaphoric tooth decay.

I don't think i could be a bigger dick if I tried.

[Elementium]

I kinda liked the concept of a AoE buff from consecration.

[Bluerelic]

Ok, lets follow your lead..

1. No.. it just makes you look stupid.
2. Actually.. I think it does.. Ever been critted for upwards of 6k every 8 seconds? Thats me, And i wear ~600 resil.
3. Ok reset you swing timer, who gives a fuck.. white hits are the least part of your _PVP_ Damage..(We are talking about pvp here I hope you noticed..)
4. Ever played vs ret? Coz I remember quite a few times when a ret would pop bubble and heal his mate to full with 2 heals.
5. See Above.. Just to Clarify.. a ret will destroy me in about 5 seconds when I have no cds left - without hoj aswell and well me vs him were talking about 10-15 to get him to bubble 12 for bubble then another 10-15 this is of course in a 1v1 situation.

Talking in lets say 2v2 it looks like this:
Either I'm with a healer (last comp I was playing was destro/shs(or mut/sd) but the dmg is unhealable for even short periods of time.
Or I'm with a DPS (see above.) Meaning I get wtfpwned in said time (about 5sec)
Now, Of course the ret wont be DPSing me all the time (evasion/stuns/fears/time healing/cloak/vanish what ever) but the one time he gets me, I'm Fucking dead. (30sec hoj anyone? = I avoid 2 if I'm lucky (Chance cloak) and then Die. (at the latest - usually earlyer)
But ofc to consider ive got a partner - he has one too, usually a shaman --> Less cc (tremor/grounding) + we wont be on him we'll be on the shaman who will - hopefully - die during melee bubble if not, GG we lose.
If its a second DPS - probably rogue it all comes down to if I get the fh or the other rogue if he does - im dead if he dosnt he's dead and we will kill the ret 2v1)

Ofc there are other comps rets play with - these are just examples.

6. Oh yeah whine about your perma-full mana pool, seriously.
7. No I mean using SoB (I'm horde i don't know about alliance), using mana pots JoW should be on the boss anyway and I'm pretty sure that using BoS to get extra dmg would be classed as "Being able to play" and I know for a fact our ret in SW pulled good dps and well great support (means shit now I know..) and he never whined about problems with mana. (no he didnt have a spriest)

So.. either you suck (http://wowwebstats.com/fhhlcvq14jvei?s=311613-340560 looks like a pretty good ret - oh snap 5.8k dps on patch) or you are uninformed or a troll.

Basically I agree with the "rofl", and stand by my statement.. any paladin feeling underpowered should kill themselves, because paladins in general - and rets are far from balanced

Now, before you flame me with omg1500 ect.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...27jin&n=strafe - my rogue
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=felos - my (retired after bc because paladins are rediculous) paladin - oh look a gladiator (no not as ret but I played 2k+ in 2s as ret)
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...%27jin&n=tzyar - my warrior - oh look another gladiator maybe this guy actually has some experience in arenas

Posted you a perfectly good wws so you can see that rets are fine pve wise, dont think I need any proof for holy pve or pvp and to sum it all up http://www.arenajunkies.com/char/US/...jaeden/Euneek/ a ret with 2.6/2.4/2.2 ratings in 2v2/3v3/5v5 respectively.

So, Get informed.

/edit: Woah, Like WHOJAAAAAAA back the fuck up here - I just saw you play 1530 with 52 games and you have a betrayer... aiiiiiieeee im blind, why did I even spend time writing this post. /wrist

/edit^2(I remembered some shit): 2 more things
1. 90% of all paladins now weren't paladins before 3.0 and only rerolled coz of imba ret on betarealm and even if they were palas they all sucked - how many palas were there in highrated arena - thats right, not alot look at shit now.. (http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/ lets play count the paladins)
2. Palas whining for more atm is just so rediculous look at the improvements palas got from bc (where palas were fine) to wotlk. (rediculous - and moreso in 3.1 aura mastery anyone?) Just like a bunch of spoilt brats that cant get enough sweets, i hope all you idiots get massive metaphoric tooth decay.

Frankly, I think you have a point on a few things, but its clear you don't play or understand a LK Ret Pally

1. Who gives a shit about the color of the text? Honestly, i like the color blue, though.
2.If you have 600 Resil and you're getting hit for 6k SoC judgements you're a damn liar. Unless the ret pally has wings + trinket, SoC just plain doesnt hit that hard in pvp, not with out full buffs. SoB/SotM are complete crap in pvp currently, you'll kill yourself against any comp that has a healer.
3. Melee swings are a big part of our dps, since they do deliver the seals we use, they account for more than 50% of our damage in raids, and with out it you would feel a tickle from a ret pally. Healing yourself is useful in pvp, might even save your life, but its a crit based proc that randomly allows you to instant cast a FoL. Burst dps needs to be bursty, not 2 globals for raping you followed by a global to heal ourselves, to stop all attacks for ~2 seconds (the global used on FoL, and at least .5 sec of melee swing timer lost usually), thats just plain too long to give your partner to heal you. But more than that, a 1500 heal is less health then an arms warrior regenerates when you try to CC him.
4. This is hilarious, ok, that ret pally has ~5500 mana, 2 HL = 2600 mana, you then assume that the pally needs to heal himself as well, so 5200 mana, a pally can pop bubble, filling both his and his partner's hp to full, and start the fight with 300 mana. He cant use Wings for another 30 secs. If your team has any ability to drain mana, you just won the match cause the ret pally will be unable to do anything other than wander around melee swinging at you.
5. I can't make a response to you bitching about 1v1 and getting counter comp'd or whatever it is that you're rambling about with your terrible grammar, but let me say this, if you're getting killed by a ret pally, you are a terrible fucking rogue. With dismantle and stun lock you can force a pally to bubble before he ever even hits you. If the pally pops both his trinket and HoF to stop your stun lock you still have CoS, Evasion, and Blind to get away so you can prepare to do it all over again, since now hes completely fucking defenseless. Throw in the fact that because hes defenseless hes also very susceptible to w/e help your partner can bring, and if you play with a disc priest he might as well not even bother popping that bubble. Ret pallies are easily the squishiest melee dps class,  no other melee class gets its face pushed in as hard as ret pallies do, we have Bubble and the ability to remove 1 stun every 30 seconds. Meanwhile you play a class that has never died to a warlock, and can kill most clothies with out trouble, if it werent for DK/Holy Pally everywhere Disc priest/Rogue would have no competition all the way to 2200+.
6. The buff to ret mana has nothing to do with their power in arena, but if you must know, its to compensate for the loss of Spiritual Attunement, since ret will no longer gain mana from being healed. Which is fair, considering every other class in the game that uses mana has a self sufficient way of replenishing mana.
7. Did you seriously just reference Sunwell? A ret pally in SW was there because people liked him and he was good at the class, not because he was good in comparison to all the other people at the raid. Ret pallies in BC did pathetic amounts of damage compared to every other dps class except shadow priests. Besides, referencing an instance that required guilds to bring as many locks and shamans as they could find just to meet the dps requirements adds little to the credibility of your argument.

This last part where you started linking dps parses and you find a 1min 59sec patchwerk where a ret pally is doing 5800 dps, thats fucking pathetic, mysteriously hes 11th on dps, OH, I KNOW, thats because your dps looks good when you only parse 2 fucking minutes of it, and even then it doesnt look good when you compare it to all the other 2min clips from dps classes that arent under performing. The tank did 3300 dps too, man hes good.

I didnt bother looking at your characters, cause frankly i dont care, you dont play a ret pally, and just because 1 guy out there broke 2k as ret you think the class is fine, its horribly unrepresented because its incapable of defending itself, it has 1 real defense mechanism, which is easily dispelled by priests, so if your opponent has a priest on his team you're basically a giant target. Bubble is amazing, but its use in PvP is over rated, once a match you can heal yourself to full and wipe all negative effects on me, awesome, except we dont have anyway of preventing us from immediately having to use it, so it just allows us to double our short life span.

As a rogue, i can't understand how you could think ret pallies are fine, we crumple like wet paper to a good rogue, well, i guess i answered my own question...

/edit: Woah, Like WHOJAAAAAAA back the fuck up here - I just saw you're terrible. Rogue forums are that way >>>

[archform]

20% chance on DivineStorm hit your next spell heals you for as much dmg as you deal lasts 5 seconds/ 25 sec internal CD

fortified Will:increase expertise 1/2/3 and your exorcism Critical increases haste by 3/6/9% lasts 10 seconds

Argent Shroud:for 15 seconds any dmg taken has a chance to increase your Healing done to you by 3% stacks up to 5 and chance on hit to increase holy dmg on target by 2% stacks up to 3/// 2 sec internal Cd for both effects they dont share the same internal cd
3min Cooldown

Lights Wrath:for the next 10 seconds all holy dmg dealt to marked Enemy deals half dmg but at the end of the effect all holy dmg dealt to target in the last 10 seconds will crash down upon the marked target dealing 130% of holy dmg dealt during the duration *dmg can not exceed 50% of targets health////this ability is off the GC
5min cd *glyph to lower the cd to 3 min*

[Nikoll]

i'd like to get some expertise somewhere in the deep ret tree. (swift retribution?)
I think the ability for concencration to crit would be a damn good idea for pve and it is too much of a mana whore for most pvp.

this isnt perfect, but I also think a low prot talent that applyed seal of corruption upon damaging attack would be nice. or maybe upon CS/Hammer of Righeous? Or maybe a talent that allows us to apply a 5 stack to a target on a cd (1 min?) and CS/HoR refreshes it. would be a nice DoT for ret, but could put prot TPS to high. as i said, needs work.

[Azshira]

Anyone else notice this? I chuckled a little bit

hehe I just did actually haha now its making me laugh Well done mister