Feral (Cat) PvE Dps in 3.1

[shammyhoho]

btw, which is better? idol of worship or idol of the ravenous beast?

[getefix]

I'm pretty sure this depends on your gear and glyphs. The 2pcTier 7 bonus adds an extra 4 seconds to rip and the idol adds another 4 seconds to rip while the glyph of shred adds another 6 seconds to rip. I don't want to do the math but I'm feeling that with really long rips like this the shred idol is better as your rip will still last for 22 seconds. Once you get to 4pc Tier8 you can replace that 4 sec rip loss from the 2pc tier7 with the rip idol and you'll have less juggling going on.

[Nalla]

Noone mentioned Armor Penetration here.

[Woogs]

On average, stat values go like this; Agility > Strength > Crit Rating > Armor Pen Rating > Expertise/Hit Rating > Haste Rating. Expertise/Hit rating will become a less valuable stat, Haste rating's value will overtake it after a couple percent, as your current Hit/Expertise value raises.

People over value Hit/Expertise in PvE. When we miss a combo move, we are immediately refunded 80% of the original cost. We have a talent, Primal Precision, that adds the same functionality to our finishers. So really a miss isn't that much of a DPS loss and will result in a greater DPS loss if you are gemming/enchanting for the Hit/Expertise cap.

For gems; Red - Agi, Yellow - Agi/Crit, Blue - Stats.

For glyphs; you should be using Savage Roar, Rip, Shred.

Don't forget to pull out your old T6, the 4-piece set bonus has become very powerful again in 3.1. If you are using the Sunwell pieces plus 1 of the original 5 pieces, you'll be set in those slots till you get T7-25 or better. Try to use it alongside the T7 2-piece bonus for best results.

EDIT: Forgot about idols, Idol of Worship is about 2x times as powerful as the Idol of the Ravenous Beast in terms of DPS. Doesn't matter what combination of glyphs or feral talents since they both don't scale in terms of player's stats. Rip will always be the best DPE ability and your goal will always be to get the most up-time out of it.

[getefix]

For gems; Red - Agi, Yellow - Agi/Crit, Blue - Stats.

Don't forget to pull out your old T6, the 4-piece set bonus has become very powerful again in 3.1. If you are using the Sunwell pieces plus 1 of the original 5 pieces, you'll be set in those slots till you get T7-25 or better. Try to use it alongside the T7 2-piece bonus for best results.

Amazing bonus, terrible stats. Absolutely not. As well, anyone who had Tier 6 already has full Tier 7.25 or 8 by now.

Yes you regain 80% energy on a finishing move that doesn't land, but SR doesn't miss and rip is really the only finishing move that we use (sometimes FB but rarely). Missing on shreds when you NEED to get CP's, or rake's when rake has just finished it's last tick, sucks. Agi/crit is not a combination you should be using IMO. If you have enough +hit from your gear then just gem straight +agil regardless of socket bonuses.

[camy011]

^wrong, take http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45265 for example. I have already used all my jc gems on other equally good socket bonuses.

I could put 16 agi in there and not get the socket bonus or
I could put 8 agi / 8 crit and get 8ap from the bonus.
8agi+8crit+8ap > 16agi even after kings.

Blue sockets are another matter though, that is why I am jewel crafting =]

[Woogs]

Amazing bonus, terrible stats. Absolutely not. As well, anyone who had Tier 6 already has full Tier 7.25 or 8 by now.

Yes you regain 80% energy on a finishing move that doesn't land, but SR doesn't miss and rip is really the only finishing move that we use (sometimes FB but rarely). Missing on shreds when you NEED to get CP's, or rake's when rake has just finished it's last tick, sucks. Agi/crit is not a combination you should be using IMO. If you have enough +hit from your gear then just gem straight +agil regardless of socket bonuses.

I have full T6 from BC, one piece of T7.5 and one piece of T7.25. Your point is moot.

About the energy refund from Primal Precision for finishing moves, that was one point I made to argue why hit is on the lower end of value for DPS stats. I'm not arguing you should not go after hit at all, I'm arguing that you shouldn't try to cap it for PvE which I hear a lot. On average, mathematically 1 crit rating > 1 hit rating.

If you want to follow the gem color requirements, those are best DPS gem choices.

[getefix]

^wrong, take http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45265 for example. I have already used all my jc gems on other equally good socket bonuses.

I could put 16 agi in there and not get the socket bonus or
I could put 8 agi / 8 crit and get 8ap from the bonus.
8agi+8crit+8ap > 16agi even after kings.

Blue sockets are another matter though, that is why I am jewel crafting =]

I guess ulduar gear is different now that stat bonuses are surpassing benefits from straight gemming. Still, If I wasn't hit capped then I would put a +8hit+8agility. If I was hit capped AND expertise capped then agil/crit would be the last option.

[sd78]

There's absolutely no reason not to be hit and expertise capped.

Each miss or dodge is a direct loss in DPS and can potentially screw up your rotation.

[shammyhoho]

moving on to pvp, whats the best pvp cat spec and glyphs?

[The Cat]

Umm I don't get why people say hit/exp isn't that important cuz of energy refund. Hit/exp is important for melee white auto attacks, which if you are hit/exp cap is just as much damage as rip/shred.

[stripesrus]

Umm I don't get why people say hit/exp isn't that important cuz of energy refund. Hit/exp is important for melee white auto attacks, which if you are hit/exp cap is just as much damage as rip/shred.

Hit and expertise are a dps increase BUT agility provides a higher dps boost comparatively. In other words gemming for 16 agility provides better dps than gemming for 16 expertise/hit. The reason is that agility affects all of our attacks.

Missing specials lowers our dps but the penalty for missing isn't big since missed specials refund 80% of our energy. Missing auto attacks is also a dps loss but white hits only account for 25% of our dps.

To conclude, hit/expertise rating affects approximately 50% of our dps potential (taking clearcasting to account) while agility affects 100% of our dps potential.

[The Cat]

Just because it "affects" less of our dps doesn't means it's less effective. The effectiveness of agility and armor pen after hit/exp cap is 10 fold the effectiveness of agility/armor pen before hit/exp cap.

[stripesrus]

Excuse my grammar, it's been a long hard day.

The simple fact is that agility affects all of our attacks thus making agility better than hit at all levels. If you go through the druid forum's stickies, elitist jerks site, Rawr or even Tossk, you would notice them placing agility higher then hit/exp for dps. These people are not throwing out random numbers but have done countless calculations to prove their assertion of agility being better.

[The Cat]

The simple fact is that agility effects all of our attacks thus making agility better than hit at all levels.

With that logic explain then why Elitist Jerks suggests stacking armor pen over agility but armor pen doesn't affect bleeds. Agility affects all our attacks so it's clearly better!

The simple fact is you need to take the "max dps stats" with a grain of salt. The perfect feral "rotation" is impossible to perform.

[shammyhoho]

moving on to pvp, whats the best pvp cat spec and glyphs?

[awake283]

Did about 6.8K on XT-002 tonight. Cats are looking pretty good in 3.1.