Tanking,Spanking, and Waffles.

[Xthform]

I've been lvling a paladin for about a week now I'm lvl 71 I have duel spec (prot/ret) and my hopes are to be a serious tank once I hit 80. I have a few questions on the tanking front thought, Firstly what my priority is with stats what enchant to put on my weapon and a few questions on talents such as where I should throw my extra points once I grab everything outa prot.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMGsIufdxoNGmcz This is what I've come up with so far I have no idea where to throw the extra 11 points. Any advice on these issues would be awesome and thanks in advance.


P.S. Waffles > Pancakes

[cidic]

P.S. Waffles > Pancakes

yes they do... and they deleted the waffles thread

[Xthform]

sadly I know which is why I worked it into my post for tanking help Ive got the rotation and everything down but I need to know what to enchant and gem for also I have no clue what to put on my wep that new parry enchant, mongoose, accuracy theres alot of choices.

[Kandrassan]

If money is not an issue, get Blade Warding, it's the best protection enchant right now (for paladins at least).

For gems, personally I socket all my blues +24 stam, all my reds +8 dodge/+12 stam, and all my yellows +8 defense/+12 stam. Stam is always nice, and dodge is strictly better than parry (especially with Wrath gear being so high on parry, and that diminishing returns on parry happen twice as quickly as dodge)

For the rest of your talents, I'd say get 2/2 Judgement, 3/3 Heart of the Crusader, 3/5 Conviction, 2/2 Pursuit of Justice, 2/3 Sanctity of Battle.


The extra crit chance is really nice, even though paladins already don't have much use for additional threat, once you get ShoR you'll start seeing with crit is nice (Nothing pulls even snap aggro off you when you get your opening ShoR to crit for 10k holy damage )

As a tank, especially in Ulduar, you're required to move around a lot, and getting there faster is always better.

And the 2/2 Judgement is because, even though in an ideal 969 rotation you don't need it, you'll find yourself straying from the rotation from time to time, due to having to taunt/move/perform a particular boss action.

Also, 969 falls apart a bit when under the effects of Bloodlust, so having your abilities up again sooner does some to fix that.

Also, taking Sanctity of Battle 2/3 increases your Exorcism damage by 10%, which is a great ability to use after you throw your shield, as you can easily get it in as well before the mob reaches you.

[cidic]

well one of the best pallie tanks I've ever had the pleasure to run with is Discostu (from my realm)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...nds&n=Discostu

We have been friends since TBC days when I started to play again. I'd follow his setup for gems/enchants and the like if I ever do make a pallie he would be the person I'd goto for my questions.

[Xthform]

Hmm thanks alot Kand that answered alot of my questions and I probably will end up getting blade warding since money is of no object especially if it makes me better at what I want to do. Another question though after I reach Def cap what should I gem enchant for? stam, hit, dodge etc etc?

[Kandrassan]

Stam and dodge. More so stam. Ulduar bosses are easily capable of hitting for 15k per hit, so getting up to 40k buffed HP (like 30k unbuffed) should be a goal of yours once you're active in Ulduar. (seems like this isn't your main, so I'm sure you'll be getting geared quite quickly)

Keep your hit at least 140-160 or so, but honestly, paladins don't have threat issues, so you should be gearing for survivability.


Just remember, that after you reach defense cap, it's not like defense becomes useless. It still actually gives a nice amount of avoidance, just not as much as raw dodge rating, and depending on how high your dodge is, it can actually be better than parry rating.

[Xthform]

Hmm thanks that about answers all my questions and your right this isn't my main my main is a rogue that I've been playing for over 4 years now and I'm tired of dps and my healer got boring not to long after I started raiding with him so tanking was my last resort which has been pretty fun so far. I already have all the craftable epics you can buy for tanking ready for him once he hits 80 and I have a BiS healer living with me so I'll be able to jump right into heroics once I hit 80 so gearing up will be very easy.

[gmf1]

If money is not an issue, get Blade Warding, it's the best protection enchant right now (for paladins at least).

Negative on that one it sucks until it procs more often.

[Tyneside]

If money is not an issue, get Blade Warding, it's the best protection enchant right now (for paladins at least).

For gems, personally I socket all my blues +24 stam, all my reds +8 dodge/+12 stam, and all my yellows +8 defense/+12 stam. Stam is always nice, and dodge is strictly better than parry (especially with Wrath gear being so high on parry, and that diminishing returns on parry happen twice as quickly as dodge)

For the rest of your talents, I'd say get 2/2 Judgement, 3/3 Heart of the Crusader, 3/5 Conviction, 2/2 Pursuit of Justice, 2/3 Sanctity of Battle.


The extra crit chance is really nice, even though paladins already don't have much use for additional threat, once you get ShoR you'll start seeing with crit is nice (Nothing pulls even snap aggro off you when you get your opening ShoR to crit for 10k holy damage )

As a tank, especially in Ulduar, you're required to move around a lot, and getting there faster is always better.

And the 2/2 Judgement is because, even though in an ideal 969 rotation you don't need it, you'll find yourself straying from the rotation from time to time, due to having to taunt/move/perform a particular boss action.

Also, 969 falls apart a bit when under the effects of Bloodlust, so having your abilities up again sooner does some to fix that.

Also, taking Sanctity of Battle 2/3 increases your Exorcism damage by 10%, which is a great ability to use after you throw your shield, as you can easily get it in as well before the mob reaches you.

Not quite this:

The gem information is practically correct while being technically wrong. Parry doesn't diminish any faster than dodge, it simply has always had a higher rating:effect ratio, but that's just nitpicking. Also, don't gem for socket bonuses that aren't worth it. i.e. if you need defense and you have a red socket with a +block rating bonus, put a def/stam or just def gem in there. If you are going for the bonus, use the gems indicated above, though.

Don't get Sanctity of Battle. It's a talent for people who can't read. You will use Exo approx. once for an entire fight. Get Crusade. The return per point is much higher, even when you're only getting 3% (and scales better with gear).

969 doesn't fall apart under BL. Your abilities don't come off of cool down any faster, so it is, for you at least, almost a total waste.

And for the love of god, don't get blade warding.

[Martini]

-->And for the love of god, don't get blade warding.<--

This.

On paper that enchant is awesome, great, yummy, delicious. In practice the proc rate is terrible, making the enchant crap.

As far as your priorities go..

As a tank of any class. Defesne cap comes first. 540 Defense to be precise (535 for heroics). This is so you do not get crit by mobs of lvl 83 (raid boses) and below.

Since you're a paladin the next best thing for you do do would probably work at getting block capped, or what is also known as unhittbale. This basiclly means that all incoming damage will either: Miss you, be parried, be dodge, or be blocked. As long as you keep up holy shield you will never take a normal hit. The way you reach that is by obtaining 102.4% avoidance (up to this point block can be counted as avoidance).

As far as spec goes, even though you are running around a lot and moving bosses, you as a tnak need to learn to keep up maximun threat. This means you're keybinding need to be set in such a way that you are comfortable moving and pressing keys at the same time. 96969 rotation is strickly the best threat rotation we have as paladins. Yes you will stray form it at times it inevitable, but if you can at all stick to it you should, so putting 1 point on improved judgements is still the best route to take. And that extra point can be put in other useful places. 53/18 is pretty much a standard spec. And if you go to Elitistsjerks, Maintankadin, or Tankspot, you will be able to find in depth guides as to what the different talents mean to you. These sites also have some really nice gear guides as well.

Gemming depends on the gear you are wearing and what you are going for as a tank. If you browse through the site I mentioned earlier you will also be able to easly find some gemming guides for different purposes. Following set bonuses are all well and good, but sometimes (acctually a lot of times) there are better options.

And not I need to start my work day. But agian, read through those sites, they have tons of information. Later I will edit my post with some specific links, just don't have the time to find them atm. Good luck to ya.

[Sasquach]

And if you go to Elitistsjerks, Maintankadin, or Tankspot, you will be able to find in depth guides as to what the different talents mean to you. These sites also have some really nice gear guides as well.

ElitistJerks - Best Prot Pally thread on there, rest of site is good too though
Maintankadin - Whole site is nice
Tankspot - Again, whole site is pretty nice

There is also an FAQ on this site that has some useful information, although its somewhat basic. That post is: here.

I personally like Accuracy and the BC Potency for weapon enchants. Currently I have Accuracy on mine, as the hit and crit is definitely nice. The Titanium Weapon Chain is also nice, but the effect doesn't stack with Pursuit of Justice. So that is why I consider Accuracy to be better than the weapon chain, even though the weapon chain is much cheaper. I haven't even really tried the Blade Ward enchant myself, as I have heard it does have a pretty low proc rate as well.

As far as the rest of your gear goes, the gearing priority is 540 Defense, 102.4% Total Avoidance (5% base Miss + Miss% + Dodge% + Parry% + Block%), and then more Stamina. After that you can start building up separate pieces for different sets. I have pieces for an Effective Health set, a Block Value set, and an Avoidance set. Granted some pieces I use for more than one set, but just a general idea that you have some different pieces for different situations. Gemming is slightly different on each set as well... For Effective Health, stamina is king. For a block value set, Stamina and Strength are good things to gem for. For Avoidance, Stamina for blue, Stamina/Dodge for red, Stamina/Defense for yellow. Natually though, if the socket bonus is crap, just do Stamina. And of course, you want to stay above 540 Defense, and 102.4% Total Avoidance in all three sets.

And yea... Crusade > Sanctity of Battle... It is still not worth subbing in Exorcism on your normal rotation, so it will only be used once or twice per encounter. So factoring that Consecration and Holy Shield can't crit, Crusade wins out as it affects everything.

[Martini]

ElitistJerks - Best Prot Pally thread on there, rest of site is good too though
Maintankadin - Whole site is nice
Tankspot - Again, whole site is pretty nice

Thank you for doing that. It would have taken a while for me to even get to.

[DX272]

this isn't a bad build either
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVbtA0uMGsIufzxf0x0r

should try it out the crit u get and the increase dmg on all targets

[Offhand]

Cookie-cutter: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdgobhbcNGmcz, the four points in imp BoM/benediction can go anywhere. Full conviction vs pursuit of justice is also a personal choice.

Check out the basic training section on maintankadin for the more general basics on tanking.

[Tyneside]

this isn't a bad build either
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVbtA0uMGsIufzxf0x0r

should try it out the crit u get and the increase dmg on all targets

What are you talking about? That's a pretty bad build.

Drop Stoicism, Get JotJ, drop a point from SA, and just because you want Sanctity of Battle to be good doesn't mean it is. PoJ, especially in Ulduar, will see way more use.

[Martini]

this isn't a bad build either
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVbtA0uMGsIufzxf0x0r
should try it out the crit u get and the increase dmg on all targets

I concur with the poster abouve me, Tyneside, that build was terrible.

Stocism is no going to do uch of anything for you in PvE, sure you get stunned in PvE but not enough to vailidate the points going into this talent.

IHoJ and JoJ both reduce the CD on our only real interrupt ability, HELLO!
And JoJ is our version of Thunderclap, it reduces the melee speed of the target you're fighting, you know like the boss hits you less often?

PoJ - oh look large area of fire get out fast cause it kinda sucks to be hit by the boss and this fire at the same time. This ability gets you out even faster. And in Ulduar there is a lot of MOVE YOUR ASS moments...

HotC okay if you don't have a ret pally grab it. If you do, you're most likely wasting talent points...

2/2 Improved Judgemnts makes me sad... I know you can't alway stick to our lovely 96969 rotation, but it is still the highest TPS rotaiton we have. Putting 2 points in this screws that rotation up. And if you are good at folowing the rotation makes that extra point a waste anyway.

Thats going to leave you with a choice of filling in Conviction, getting crusade, or getting SoB (not seal of blood) Crusade wins, period

Full conviction vs pursuit of justice is also a personal choice.
Check out the basic training section on maintankadin for the more general basics on tanking.

Pretty much on those points in benediction. Like I said no ret pally go ahead, but if you do its completely wasted, pretty much the same for BoM especially since you'll most likely be passing out BoSanc for that 3% reduced damage to everyone in the raid.

[Tyneside]

2/2 iJudge isn't terrible, it's just generally wasteful. Saying that it "screws up the rotation" implies that it actually gets in the way, which it doesn't. It is just a filler point.

[Martini]

2/2 iJudge isn't terrible, it's just generally wasteful. Saying that it "screws up the rotation" implies that it actually gets in the way, which it doesn't. It is just a filler point.

details details...but yeah you're right

[Nybras]

you'll most likely be passing out BoSanc for that 3% reduced damage to everyone in the raid.

This isn't true anymore. If you have a disc priest that is. http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57472