25 Assembly of Iron Hardmode - Silent - Eu, Illidan

[FritzTheCat]

However they did it, it was done, and they deserve the grats. Period. Hard modes make you explore every option and they found one that worked. Whatever it was, grats to 'em.

The rest of you idiots screaming 'gg blizz' or 'cheaters' etc - Holy shit do you ever need lives. Yer just hating cuz it wasn't your crew.

[Xes of FH]

Here is my take on it for it is worth.

First of all, gratz on the kill. I know the fight is not a free kill with or with out the VW tanking. But to say that you did not "bug" the encounter is false. Back when VW's where tanking 3D Sarth Blizzard stated that pets are not meant to tank raid bosses. Call it what you want, but that to me this is a bug, a cheat, or an exploit.

Look, I understand that Blizz screwed up with the over buff they gave to this fight, but to sit there and act like this is an 100% legit kill is stupid. At least when Ensidia killed Hodir they came right out and said that they knowingly bent the rules.

Once again gratz on the kill, but to me this fight is still not possible.

[Mocau]

I still don't see why using game mechanics is cheating or exploiting ??? Imo, using HS is really different !
You should try and make VW tank and see how easy it is (it's not...)

[Bisley]

a bug is an accidental code error. IE: attacking with a pet makes the boss stop using the ability.
cheating would be using an outside method. IE: 3rd party addon or application that makes you capable of getting tailoring up to 10000 to make a GM only item.

"exploiting" refers to "exploiting a bug" meaning "bug" and "exploit" are essentially the same thing.

using something that blizzard overlooked and didnt intend isnt exploiting or cheating, its a battle of ingenuity.
you can tell by a lot of the fights they want it done a certain way. like heigan. they WANT people to dance the entire fight. when naxx first came out the range on his spell disruption was short enough that you could stand at the corners and not have to dance half the fight. neither a bug, or a hack, merely something blizzard overlooked. If you downed heigan using a working method that blizzard never even though people might try, does that make you a hacker/cheater? No. It means you thought of something before them and they'll change it.

[Kelvall]

When exactly did they change the IC hard mode, to make it harder?

[Dukamok]

It's only intended if a warrior is the main tank, priests are healers, and rogues are dps. All other kills are invalid. Cheaters, all of you! Exploiters! I heard some of you even use "consumables" and "cooldowns", which is just another way of exploiting and cheating and ruining the game for everyone! I hope you all get banned for exploiting and cheating such easy content which I can do with my eyes closed when I'm sleeping. Pff. Cheaters.

This, again. If Blizz "didn't intend for Voidwalkers to be tanking" AND nerfed them and they STILL pulled it off, obviously they need to rethink the change they made or nerf it harder.

Grats to Silent

[DepecheMode]

So they did something that you can´t manage = they abviously cheated.

I "love" how small minded alot of people are

[Mocau]

SO do I

[Xes of FH]

It has nothing to do with being small minded. As I said in my original post, the fight will still be hard with or with out a VW tank, only difference one is possible and one is not.

My biggest problem is that you sit here and act like it is a legit kill. Take the example of when a priest to use reflective shields to kill 3D sarth. Did they use game mechanics? Yes. Where they considered cheating or exploiting? Yes. Did they get there titles taking away and temped banned? Yes.

Now I am not saying that the difficulty of doing that even comes close to what you had to do on council, nor do i think you should lose your achievements, but using game mechanics in ways not intended is a bug/exploting.

I guess in the end, it will be up to Blizzard to judge if the kill was legit or not. If they continue to allow pets to tank, i guess you guys where right and i am wrong. But I will bet that you will not see VW tanking raid boss for much longer.

[atf]

Ever heard the THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX expression?

[korruna]

Yeah except DV didn't hearth their tanks out. If you think this works, you obviously have no idea how the encounter works. Let me educate you:

The instant a tank gets agro they have a debuff for 25 seconds. No, there is no way to cheese the debuff. It is applied the instant someone in melee range gets agro so you cannot range taunt it from let's say a Death Knight or a Paladin for added damage from Overwhelming Power. Hearth stone is a 10 second cast time. You would need a 1 second margin of error as well because Steelbreaker must be taunted OFF of the current tank in order to Hearth out successfully.

That would mean 1 tank is only tanking for about 13-14 seconds per transition, and unlike a legitimate kill where the tank can be brought back to life via Soulstone or Rebirth, that tank is simply gone from the encounter. A typical Steelbreaker kill would take at least 90 seconds. That's 6 tanks, and you probably would need even more than that.

If you honestly think you can kill Steelbreaker with 6 tanks, 6 healers, and 13 DPS then all the power to you but you're a complete moron.

[DepecheMode]

It has nothing to do with being small minded. As I said in my original post, the fight will still be hard with or with out a VW tank, only difference one is possible and one is not.

I guess in the end, it will be up to Blizzard to judge if the kill was legit or not. If they continue to allow pets to tank, i guess you guys where right and i am wrong. But I will bet that you will not see VW tanking raid boss for much longer.

It was not directed to you but people in general.

I don´t see why useing a VW tank would not be legal though.
Aslong as blizzard give them the ability to do it I´m perfectly fine with it.

To me killing Hodir the way Ensidia (I still think they exploited it for good reasons though) did is an exploit this is not.

Would it be considered an exploit if I use my bubble once a mob have chosen a target for his supernuke ability and then click it off me once he finished casting so that the agro drop doens´t matter since I´ll have time to pick him up again before he kill someone else? Because I´m pretty sure that´s not intended from blizzard either.

To me, exploit = useing an ability that´s not a part of the fight to your advantage, buffs, bugs or what ever tricky way you find.
Useing abilities that has ben given to your class to your advantage is just good knowledge of your class and ability to think outside of the box.
If Blizzard doesn´t want people to use VW for tanks all they have to do is fix it so that it´s not possible, aslong as they don´t do that I´m perfectly fine with it.

[Captain Midnight]

They did it by hearthing out.

To me thats far much more of an exploit/bug than using voidwalkers to tank.

I don't see anything wrong in sending pets in to tank as its part of the game (I've healed pet tanks many times in instances), but hearthing out of the instance just to get a worldfirst? Thats just cheating and doesn't really count for much in my opinion.

I wouldn't really call it cheating. It was in unintended way to beat the boss, yeah, and okay, it got fixed, but we've been able to hearth while in combat for years now. You can't Rez in Combat, you can't eat or drink in combat, so we know the mechanics are there to prevent us from doing things while in combat, but instead of changing it to prevent something like that from ever happening, they keep it there and changed the encounter.

It's just another use of the game's mechanics, imo. There was a time that Illidan cast Shear and the "only" tank that could tank him was a Warrior, due to shield block. However, I've heard several stories of Paladins tanking him, and a few stories of Druids tanking him successfully with the use of Intervene. You might say that's completely different, but I stand by my opinion:

If hearthing out of a fight is a bug, Blizzard would change the hearthstone to not work while in combat.

[DarkFerret]

I wouldn't really call it cheating. It was in unintended way to beat the boss, yeah, and okay, it got fixed, but we've been able to hearth while in combat for years now. You can't Rez in Combat, you can't eat or drink in combat, so we know the mechanics are there to prevent us from doing things while in combat, but instead of changing it to prevent something like that from ever happening, they keep it there and changed the encounter.

It's just another use of the game's mechanics, imo. There was a time that Illidan cast Shear and the "only" tank that could tank him was a Warrior, due to shield block. However, I've heard several stories of Paladins tanking him, and a few stories of Druids tanking him successfully with the use of Intervene. You might say that's completely different, but I stand by my opinion:

If hearthing out of a fight is a bug, Blizzard would change the hearthstone to not work while in combat.

Right. Because there's been so many fights in the past where hearthing out would have made the difference between a kill and a wipe. It was an exploit, and it was fixed. None of you sat there and called foul this much when Ensidia openly admitted to how they killed Hodir, but now that someone does something that you didn't think would work, it's all of a sudden an exploit because they got it first. Face it, this is why certain guilds get world firsts and you don't.

[moonwin]

Here the fight !
http://files.filefront.com/Assembly+.../fileinfo.html
Resolution : 1680x1050 188mb High quality
Shenga had little delay during the fight.
Thx for watching

[Xes of FH]

It was not directed to you but people in general.

I don´t see why useing a VW tank would not be legal though.
Aslong as blizzard give them the ability to do it I´m perfectly fine with it.

To me killing Hodir the way Ensidia (I still think they exploited it for good reasons though) did is an exploit this is not.

Would it be considered an exploit if I use my bubble once a mob have chosen a target for his supernuke ability and then click it off me once he finished casting so that the agro drop doens´t matter since I´ll have time to pick him up again before he kill someone else? Because I´m pretty sure that´s not intended from blizzard either.

To me, exploit = useing an ability that´s not a part of the fight to your advantage, buffs, bugs or what ever tricky way you find.
Useing abilities that has ben given to your class to your advantage is just good knowledge of your class and ability to think outside of the box.
If Blizzard doesn´t want people to use VW for tanks all they have to do is fix it so that it´s not possible, aslong as they don´t do that I´m perfectly fine with it.

Sounds good, but blizzard has already stated they do not what this to happen. If VW's are still able to do it, then that is blizzards fault for not nerfing it enough. A VW is in no wait ment to be the MT of a raid.

[Beace]

So they went through 3 voidwalkers and then a warrior tanked last 10%.

Can someone explain how the voidwalkers can live through the very high melee hits Steelbreaker does when he's the last one alive?

[Gloodie]

Pet tanks was a good idea.. very cheesy.. came close to being explotive.. flower power came even closer.. but hearthing?

Not worthy of a world first IMO

[gereslol]

However Deus Vox did it I expect they either used exploits or did it prior to a buff.  I remember them from Sunwell PTR bragging about all their "world firsts" there.

The only reason Iron Council hardmode has not been done is because all of the really big guilds were racing for Yogg, Yogg hard mode and Algalon.  They are the only FK's that really mean anything at this point.

Perhaps if noone gets say XTD's hardmode down for ages, eventually it will become a race, but at this point its all about Yogg and Algalon, and guilds like DV know they can't compete so they go after the small ones and act like its something huge.

vis maior got the PTR world firsts, you're retarded. Oh, and for Deus Vox, they're always close to being a world first kill. They were there for Sunwell, they are there now.

[tavalus]

Anyone trying to argue that this is a legit kill just has blinders on so that they can feel better about the bad things they do. Flat out Bliz said VW's aren't meant to tank. It doesn't matter whether or not they "Overlooked" or under nerfed them. If I rock up to your house and you locked everything but missed one window does it make it any less B&E? No. There's a thousand examples that anyone could give of crap you could do that you know is wrong but could get away with because of someone's oversight. It doesn't make it any less wrong. Pat yourselves on the back, skim through the posts of people congratulating you, and crawl off and try to feel like you actually accomplished something. Same goes for the "supporters", congrats on someone finding a way for you to pretend like you matter.

Oh, and Ensidia knew what they were doing, owned up to doing it, and didn't look for pats. They didn't try and pull it off as legit. That's the difference.