No more nerfs please

[Antiqueth]

Yet any snare, poison, slow, etc renders that useless!

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=1044

*Awesomeface*

[Cirayne24]

Ret is the most kiteable class in the game, if we get to a mage they blink, if we get to the warlock they jump back, if we get to a hunter. in duels ret almost has no chance to win if the ranged player is good and the duel starts with a little distance.

I do believe that Blizzard has stated that they don't balance the game around duels which is why we have no 1v1 Arenas.

It's true you don't have a gap closer, but don't pally's have a dispel, bubble, reliable self heals and a ranged execute as melee?

[Myzou]

Ret is the ONLY melee class without a distance closer. warriors got intercept, shammies have earthshock, deathknight's have deathgrip, feral has charge, rogues have shadowstep and stealth as a way to close distance. Yes repentance can work but it's on a long 1 minute cd.

I totally just facepalmed for like the first time. I know you meant frost shock, but can you be that dumb to actually say Earth Shock, which should be quite obvious to ANYONE that it does nothing but interrupt? >_> (And slight damage)

And Rogues spec into shadowstep... they do have sprint though, but in what way does SLOWING THEIR MOVEMENT SPEED with stealth help close?

As you said, Ret has repentance. You may not like it, but it's a closer, one way or another. It's like Death Grip, just it incapacitates them instead of pulling you to them.

[Terrab]

Yet any snare, poison, slow, etc renders that useless!

True, my was made to point out the falsehood stated above, not to argue counters.

Between cleanse, hand of freedom, and divine shield paladins have many ways other than a trinket to remove such things.

[qsubt05]

7 button class need decent nerf. retards burst dmg is annoying..., shorter HoF sounds good, not great but still better than nothing ;D

[RogueScythe]

True, my was made to point out the falsehood stated above, not to argue counters.

Between cleanse, hand of freedom, and divine shield paladins have many ways other than a trinket to remove such things.

Mmm d33pz now just what does a pally have to stay on their target? Oh wait.... glad I'm a rogue.

[tolkienfanman]

As much as I hate to bump this tread more, the "exorcism nerf" was immediately following a exorcism buff. All they did was take bake some of what they buffed. Also at the same time as those judge nerfs where judge buffs. They changed it from crit to more steady damage. Most of the nerfs you mentioned had buffs that went right alongside them. Not to mention the recent haste buff. Which as far as i know had no complementery nerf to go with it. When you list things off like this you lose perspective.

[Volly]

7 button class need decent nerf. retards burst dmg is annoying..., shorter HoF sounds good, not great but still better than nothing ;D

wow you must suck really bad around us

[tjanson]

i also love how people forget that we gotta put talent points INTO the run speed, and people who think of repentance and hammer of justice as a valid distance closer, since we waste 1 minute and 40 second cooldowns to get to the target, and anything from 2-6 seconds of the entire duration can be wasted just to get on the target in the first place just to have them blink, disengage, etc.

I personally love how people think that a 100% speed limiter and a 15% run speed increase is the same thing as oh... hamstring, crippling poison, intercept, charge, intervene, feral charge, infected wounds(+30% speed increase...). Depending on who you're trying to catch, the 100% limiter can be nearly useless(against a holy paladin or a disc priest who can remove it with one GCD, because you have no other dots up on the target).

Oh, and let's not even talk about deathknights, which have so many ways to stay on their target that it's not even funny anymore, and a decent portion of their damage can be done at range anyway.

I'm not saying ret isn't strong... but you guys really have to try it for awhile to get a sense of how difficult it can be to play without a charge or an actual slow/root. Honestly. Go play ret for awhile(for realz, not just smashing people in battlegrounds) and then reenter this discussion.

As you said, Ret has repentance. You may not like it, but it's a closer, one way or another. It's like Death Grip, just it incapacitates them instead of pulling you to them.

It's like Death Grip, only not in any way shape form or fashion like Death Grip, at all. Wow.

[Jaska]

I'm not saying ret isn't strong... but you guys really have to try it for awhile to get a sense of how difficult it can be to play without a charge or an actual slow/root. Honestly. Go play ret for awhile(for realz, not just smashing people in battlegrounds) and then reenter this discussion.

Give me your password and I'll get right to it.

[Terrab]

I personally love how people think that a 100% speed limiter and a 15% run speed increase is the same thing as oh... hamstring, crippling poison, intercept, charge, intervene, feral charge, infected wounds(+30% speed increase...). Depending on who you're trying to catch, the 100% limiter can be nearly useless(against a holy paladin or a disc priest who can remove it with one GCD, because you have no other dots up on the target).

Oh, and let's not even talk about deathknights, which have so many ways to stay on their target that it's not even funny anymore, and a decent portion of their damage can be done at range anyway.

I'm not saying ret isn't strong... but you guys really have to try it for awhile to get a sense of how difficult it can be to play without a charge or an actual slow/root. Honestly. Go play ret for awhile(for realz, not just smashing people in battlegrounds) and then reenter this discussion.

It's like Death Grip, only not in any way shape form or fashion like Death Grip, at all. Wow.

Maybe you should play another class. My problem with ret paladins is they think they're the only ones with problems. An enhancement shaman doesn't have any closer (and they lack HoJ or repentance) but you don't hear them whine as much and they end up eating way more CC than paladins. They don't have cleanse, hand of freedom, or a bubble to help removed debuffs.

For someone unknown reason ret paladins think they should have awesome defensive abilities and amazing offensive abilities. I get that many of you would gladly trade some of your defensive abilities such as HoF for more offensive abilities but thats not how Blizzard wants the class. If you want more offensive abilities and less defensive ones roll a warrior or a death knight (Heck the even pretty good defensive abilities).

Of course all classes would love to see there weakness buffed but it's retarded to think you have no weakness ever against another class. I for one hate getting stun locked to death from a rogue something a good ret paladin seldom has to deal with. Your class like others has their strengths and weaknesses. If you don't like the weaknesses of your class roll another, you'll find out very quickly that your new class has weaknesses you don't like.

[Jaska]

i also love how people forget that we gotta put talent points INTO the run speed, and people who think of repentance and hammer of justice as a valid distance closer, since we waste 1 minute and 40 second cooldowns to get to the target, and anything from 2-6 seconds of the entire duration can be wasted just to get on the target in the first place just to have them blink, disengage, etc.

I also love how people think that gap closers or PvP tools in general don't count because they are talented or have a cooldown. You must have the brain power of a Mirror Image.

[Terrab]

I also love how people think that gap closers or PvP tools in general don't count because they are talented or have a cooldown. You must have the brain power of a Mirror Image.

Or they don't count cause it can be dispelled.

[Jaska]

Or they don't count cause it can be dispelled.

Everything that can be countered doesn't count?
Right, let's do some PvP!

[Bluerelic]

I really dont think these nerfs have nearly any impact on arena as a whole, you run ever so slightly faster than your opponent, that last 4 seconds isnt gonna get you to your opponent, or stop your opponent from running away again, HoF is used to dispel stuns and to keep spamstring, crippling, and desecrate from annoying you. You are going to either stick to the person like glue, or that 4 seconds isnt gonna mean dick. Any comp with a priest or shaman, which to be fair is a large portion of comps, is gonna dispel your HoF before you need to give a damn about that 4 seconds. It doesnt prevent any real CC, since you are still subject to Death Grip, stuns, fears, poly, cyclone, blind, etc, if you were ever going to catch that fleeing target, 4 secs less crippling poison isnt gonna make or break it. Besides, 95% of the time, the thing snaring you is NOT the thing you wish to be chasing.

That being said, Ret is weak in arena, but stop acting like this nerf is gonna send all those pallies in the 2k+ brackets back down with the rest of the scrubs. FFS, there's a dozen other reasons why Ret is failing in arena, and we dont need to lose sight of them and focus on a worthless nerf.

[potatersalad]

It's like Death Grip, only not in any way shape form or fashion like Death Grip, at all. Wow.
[/quote]

So quick to dismiss Myzou's comparison of Death Grip and Repentance(even when he states the differences to notify that they are not the same, but used with the same intent of closing the distance), they are both a ranged distance closing ability with only a difference of 10 yards in the ranged casting aspect. Repent from 20 yards is more than enough to get you within distance for a judge and its on like donkey kong from there. If you are not a paladin and not posting relevant you are fail and troll. You don't see me jumping to the shaman forums and posting irrelevant nonsense. Stay on topic/appropriate class please(/target Terrab + Rogue)! It seems everyone forgets the rock, paper, and scissors effect. Giving us Paladins a movement impairing ability would definitely make us OP hence why they aren't giving us one, so it would probably be best if it got dropped. IT WON'T HAPPEN, if you think I'm wrong come back to this forum 6 months from now and let me know if there has been any new abilities or redesigns of current spells added for closing the gap.

[Aredhel128]

Maybe you should play another class. My problem with ret paladins is they think they're the only ones with problems. An enhancement shaman doesn't have any closer (and they lack HoJ or repentance) but you don't hear them whine as much and they end up eating way more CC than paladins. They don't have cleanse, hand of freedom, or a bubble to help removed debuffs.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ghost_Wolf

[RogueScythe]

It's like Death Grip, only not in any way shape form or fashion like Death Grip, at all. Wow.


So quick to dismiss Myzou's comparison of Death Grip and Repentance(even when he states the differences to notify that they are not the same, but used with the same intent of closing the distance), they are both a ranged distance closing ability with only a difference of 10 yards in the ranged casting aspect. Repent from 20 yards is more than enough to get you within distance for a judge and its on like donkey kong from there. If you are not a paladin and not posting relevant you are fail and troll. You don't see me jumping to the shaman forums and posting irrelevant nonsense. Stay on topic/appropriate class please(/target Terrab + Rogue)! It seems everyone forgets the rock, paper, and scissors effect. Giving us Paladins a movement impairing ability would definitely make us OP hence why they aren't giving us one, so it would probably be best if it got dropped. IT WON'T HAPPEN, if you think I'm wrong come back to this forum 6 months from now and let me know if there has been any new abilities or redesigns of current spells added for closing the gap.

I may be a rogue, but I'm defending the fact that this was an unneeded nerf. Also forget rock paper scissors right now, because what would DK be? A rock that can cut paper and serve its main purpose which is smashing scissors? Giving a Ret pally a movement impairing effect would make them a rogue in plate without the stuns. However how about lowering their over all damage as a sacrifice to actually being a decent class over all and not just strong in the "omgwtfbbqinstantpwnageroflstomperz" category of major burst that they are now. And if they don't balance around 1v1 then why was it again that exorcism was nerfed in the first place? It was an extra attack from a distance which isn't that OP, sure it did nice damage but to completely remove it from being used on players is beyond a dumb idea. Why not do that to every move that is slightly OP then... Why not make Chains of Ice or Death Grip not to be used on players, I'd say either one of those is more game breaking then giving a ret pally some range with an attack that's more then 15 yards.

Also aren't you trolling bub?

[Yarock]

I don't think you're playing the same game I am. Ret paladin's aren't weak in arena - check the sk-100 the ret spec is the 5th highest represented spec. The paladin class as a whole is #3 over representing hunters, warlocks and rogues COMBINED. Learn to play - ret is very strong.

[Volly]

I really dont think these nerfs have nearly any impact on arena as a whole, you run ever so slightly faster than your opponent, that last 4 seconds isnt gonna get you to your opponent, or stop your opponent from running away again, HoF is used to dispel stuns and to keep spamstring, crippling, and desecrate from annoying you. You are going to either stick to the person like glue, or that 4 seconds isnt gonna mean dick. Any comp with a priest or shaman, which to be fair is a large portion of comps, is gonna dispel your HoF before you need to give a damn about that 4 seconds. It doesnt prevent any real CC, since you are still subject to Death Grip, stuns, fears, poly, cyclone, blind, etc, if you were ever going to catch that fleeing target, 4 secs less crippling poison isnt gonna make or break it. Besides, 95% of the time, the thing snaring you is NOT the thing you wish to be chasing.

That being said, Ret is weak in arena, but stop acting like this nerf is gonna send all those pallies in the 2k+ brackets back down with the rest of the scrubs. FFS, there's a dozen other reasons why Ret is failing in arena, and we dont need to lose sight of them and focus on a worthless nerf.

it depends on which brackets..2v2 is gonna be a problem with range kitter but 3v3/5v5 yea i agree it wont hurt much since other rets tossing hands on you time to time if your being snar alot i assume you went through some of those encounters where snares is a big problem

Now it not a big frustration but it big enough to ask why nerf it if it not that big of a deal oh wait here the reason:
Hand of Freedom nerf in Patch 3.1.3
Holy and Ret paladins have in some form been on top of the current and previous Arena season. Furthermore, we think part of the reason some players, especially casters, feel like they are dying so quickly in PvP is because they can't use their crowd control abilities without them getting quickly removed. Freedom was a big part of that. It's supposed to be "Get out of jail free" card, not "you can't ever cc me" card. If that makes sense.

It is still a very potent ability, especially talented, which almost all PvP paladins do. To be honest, we're concerned the duration is still too long.