His agro is low

[TankVX]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...IRON+LION+ZION

his agro is low,tell me why.

if can u post me a spec and if you have some advice... because he don't hold 4k dps...

[smartAXE]

51 HR

[arel00]

That spec is terribad.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9947

This is closer to what you want, especially if you have threat problems.

Also, tell him to look up 969 rotation.

[Digkilla]

yea use the spec above, and get that hit rating up up up

[TwistedPower]

Assuming that guy who posted the spec above me was correct in how you should spec, which he isnt. You would want to do thits http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947

Since 3 points into imp devotion aura gives 6% inc healing done to you insted of 3 points into divinity which only gives 3%. But he isnt correct and becuase persuit of justice isnt worth it. just 1 into benidiction is retarded since prot pallys have infinate mana now. Also if this prot pally is your MT in any 25/10man, argent defender is pointless becuase your tank will never get hit for any real damage below 35% hp becuase he will almost always die from that hit even with 20% damage reduction. Also he forgot to get any points into divine gardian for sacred shield which the tank should always have up on himself since it stacks with other pally sacred shield and gives a nice 2k+ shield......


SOOOO the talent spec should realy look somthing more like
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947

[Krystus]

While the spec could be tweaked and the hit would definitely be helpful, the biggest cause of low threat is a poor rotation.

He won't go from low threat to high threat with just those talent changes.

However, he seems to be stacking block value, switch out the libram to better match his overall gear. It'll make a bigger difference in threat too once he has a solid rotation.

[TwistedPower]

Yea rotation is also big. Whats your pallys rotation.

[Pimpn]

righteous fury usually helps

[bettie]

righteous fury usually helps

[Doddilus]

Assuming that guy who posted the spec above me was correct in how you should spec, which he isnt. You would want to do thits http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947

Since 3 points into imp devotion aura gives 6% inc healing done to you insted of 3 points into divinity which only gives 3%. But he isnt correct and becuase persuit of justice isnt worth it. just 1 into benidiction is retarded since prot pallys have infinate mana now. Also if this prot pally is your MT in any 25/10man, argent defender is pointless becuase your tank will never get hit for any real damage below 35% hp becuase he will almost always die from that hit even with 20% damage reduction. Also he forgot to get any points into divine gardian for sacred shield which the tank should always have up on himself since it stacks with other pally sacred shield and gives a nice 2k+ shield......


SOOOO the talent spec should realy look somthing more like
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947

Imp devo is a must yes
Everything else is personal preference
I love Pursuit of Justice, 2% extra crit is nothing to a tankadin
The one point in benediction is wasted no mater where you put it
Ardent Defender has save my ass more times than sacred shield ever could(its 30% damage reduction)
I also love imp HoJ. A 20 second interrupt is extremely handy

this is my spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=9947#

but those are minor changes and so is increasing hit rating

Spell rotation is where you'll see the biggest increase in threat

some good links to send your prot paladin to:
http://www.raider101.com//wikka.php?...adinProtection
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=21933

[Lightstrike]

He should also be using glyph of divine plea in place of glyph of righteous defense, though that isnt a threat thing.

Most likely, it's his lack of rotation thats producing poor threat. You need at least 1 point in improved judgements to pull it off so it's clear he isnt using it.

[Astray]

I'm using this spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947

Reason:
Crit and DPS Talents from the Ret-Tree are not absolutely necessary.
The only tank i know that have threat-problems are those doing something horribly wrong, like waiting until the gcd is off and then thinking "hm, what shall i do next". Yes that exists.
This guy here is missing one point in Improved Judgements which screws up his nonexisting 969-rotation.

Platinum rules of the paladin tanking:
- Never hesitate
- No GCD stays unused.
- "should i..." YES!

Tanks are not the people thinking twice about there actions, not in combat.

[Rígr]

talents:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9947
need that 1 point in improved judgement (1 is better than 2 actually) to make the rotation work
by chaining the rotation listed under, you will never have 2 spells that finish cooldown at the same time = close to100% active time (2 of the "9second" spells are only 8 sec but...)

Rotation:
9 Judgement of ***
6 Shield of Righteousness
9 Holy Shield
6 Hammer of the Righteous
9 Consecration
6 Shield of Righteousness
9 Judgement of ***
6 Hammer of the Righteous
9 Holy Shield
6 Shield of Righteousness
9 Consecration
6 Hammer of the Righteous

and just repeat it


talents and the rotation give me close to 3k dps (on single target bosses) and as a result, a suitable high tps :P

[arel00]

In 25men content, Imp. Devotion Aura is pointless. Unless very specific guild situations, there is a resto druid in raid and the Tree Form aura already gives that 6% healing - they do NOT stack.
Trading Dvinity for Imp. Devotion with a Tree in raid means trading a total of 11% healing on you for only 8%.
Thus, it is only worth speccing into if you're sure you won't have a Tree in raid, like many 10mens or instances. But for 25men, is absolutely not mandatory, and borders uselessness.

The point in Benediction is nothing but a filler. You will want 1/2 Imp Judgement, not 2/2. Again, if you don't know this, read up what 969 is.

For everyone out there takling Seals of the Pure: Conviction + Crusade nets a higher threat, that is mathematically tested and really doesn't require any discussion.

Regarding Ardent Defender it's up on personal choices tbh. I find it useful in some situations, like Mimiron phase 2 and Freya adds, but you can just trade it off for 2/2 SA and Divine Guardian.

As for PoJ, you have no idea how useful the extra running speed is. And the half disarm isn't bad, either.

[Lightstrike]

In 25men content, Imp. Devotion Aura is pointless. Unless very specific guild situations, there is a resto druid in raid and the Tree Form aura already gives that 6% healing - they do NOT stack.
Trading Dvinity for Imp. Devotion with a Tree in raid means trading a total of 11% healing on you for only 8%.
Thus, it is only worth speccing into if you're sure you won't have a Tree in raid, like many 10mens or instances. But for 25men, is absolutely not mandatory, and borders uselessness.

The point in Benediction is nothing but a filler. You will want 1/2 Imp Judgement, not 2/2. Again, if you don't know this, read up what 969 is.

For everyone out there takling Seals of the Pure: Conviction + Crusade nets a higher threat, that is mathematically tested and really doesn't require any discussion.

Regarding Ardent Defender it's up on personal choices tbh. I find it useful in some situations, like Mimiron phase 2 and Freya adds, but you can just trade it off for 2/2 SA and Divine Guardian.

As for PoJ, you have no idea how useful the extra running speed is. And the half disarm isn't bad, either.

You realise that on pretty much all hard hitting physical mobs, the extra mitigation from the armour in improved devotion aura will help more than the 3% extra healing? Not to mention that this extra armour applies to everyone in range and not just you.

[Biznick]

You can spec for complete survivability and still put out way more than enough aggro, you just gotta know the right rotation.. so thats really more important than any spec.

just take the obviouse talents, everything else is pretty much up to whoever is playing the pally.

heres a thread that talks about the 969 rotation: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...7948#msg777948

[arel00]

You realise that on pretty much all hard hitting physical mobs, the extra mitigation from the armour in improved devotion aura will help more than the 3% extra healing? Not to mention that this extra armour applies to everyone in range and not just you.

Let's math it:

- with my gear, under Inspiration and with no Imp.Devotion, armor is 35209, for a 67.31% mitigation
- with Imp.Devotion, it goes up to 35962, for a 68.37% mitigation

Now add in the talents: Sanc, Imp.RF, Shield of the Templar, DP glyphed -> 3%, 3%, 6%, 3%. The factors are multiplicative.
- first case, effective reduction becomes 72.47%
- second case, effective reduction becomes 72.87%
- both cases, 2071 block value

Take into account a hard hitting boss: let's say 2.0 swing speed, 75k damage pre-reduction.

First case: 18575 swing, post reduction, post block.
Second case: 18279 swing, same conditions.

The difference nets into 148dps.

To pair that with healing, you would need 148hps from that 3% extra bonus. That requires an incoming 4933.33hps (that's repeating, of course :P) for 5/5 Divinity to match the armor loss. Note: 4933.33 TOTAL HPS incoming on you, not from a single healer, but for all those that are healing you, since they all get the bonus.

Now question: does your incoming heals net for more than 5k HPS? Considering the boss is, at over 18k damage per 2.0s swing, putting you under over 9000dps (!), your incoming HPS must be *at least* over 9k to cover the damage, else you'll simply die. With 9k HPS, that 3% healing bonus means an extra free 270HPS, which is way more than the extra DPS you're taking. Note: this is a free increase, your healers are spending exactly the same amount of mana.

Result: 3% healing nets in more than the armor difference on you.

Before you get this wrong: this is just to clear things up, I'm not trying to make anyone a fool or anything like that.

[telemain]

You realise that on pretty much all hard hitting physical mobs, the extra mitigation from the armour in improved devotion aura will help more than the 3% extra healing? Not to mention that this extra armour applies to everyone in range and not just you.

In 25 content if you have a holy pally, there is a good chance they have imp devo aura anyway, because if you go 51/20 there's not really anything better to put it in. Since a protadin DOES have better places to put those points, he shouldn't be taking it if he rolls with a 51/20 holydin.

[Lightstrike]

To be honest I made a mistake and was thinking about improved dev. vs no dev. at all.

A couple of points in your math though first:

I'm fairly certain you've got another 3% reduction from thin air. AFAIK, we have two 3% reductions and a 6% reduction, not three which you used.
That brings the first reduction to 0.738487936 without improved dev and 0.747863064 with it.
In which case on 75k hits pre-mitigation, the actual difference is 351.6DTPS.

Which means you would need an extra 351.6HPS to counter it. With the correct damage numbers you would be taking 10842dps without imp dev, but you do have +3% healing done to yourself.. unfortunately this equates to only 316hps (rounding up) which gives a difference of 35.6/second. And while you're going to say that 35.6 extra damage reduction/extra healing doesnt add up to much, neither did the original example quoted when things were the other way around.

So Imp. Dev. > Divinity.

For this though, you need a priest to keep rolling crits on you using your numbers accurately, not that it matters because of the way armor scaling works.. but you will see that imp dev aura reduces fractionally a bit more damage in comparison to someone with normal dev aura. And of course to keep the 6% healing for everyone buff you'd need a druid too, however a raid is likely to have a restod ruid and they dont have to do anything spectacular (aside from turning into a walking tree) to provide the buff we'd miss.


But that's okay because a Holy paladin who for some reason decides to forego the juicy ret tree crit talents in favour of the prot tree could replace my need for devotion aura entirely... okay great, but not every guild has a pocket holy paladin that goes to every raid and specs in that way.
To me that seems like a lot of effort to go to when I pick it up along the way.

Even if the HPS gain was higher than the damage reduction, it's not usually due to the lack of healing that tanks die on bosses where armour matters this much.. if 6-7 healers can't spam heal me enough to keep me alive, then that extra 3% isn't going to do much in the way of helping.
You're also not considering that despite the total useful hps increase being greater, it is going to be 99% overheal, which is useless, sure it's "free", but it's still going to waste.

[Astray]

Some arguments are weird.

Imp. Devotion is useless in 25-man raids:
Its 1% less physical damage. Especially in raids where the damage is enormous, that little 1% shines.