Glyph of Seal of Vengeance

[Ronark]

That would be an awesome idea, but I don't see it coming, really.

Did I miss somewhere where they said that? In that case, then I'm sorry Still, JoL is not the only healing spell you have :P I tend to FoL myself and other dps'ers sometimes, just to help out.

# Blessing of Sanctuary: This blessing now also increases stamina by 10%. This effect is not cumulative with Blessing of Kings.
# Charger: Can now be learned at level 40.
# Exorcism: Now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can once again be used on players.
# Hand of Reckoning: Redesigned. Now does damage only when target does not currently have the caster targeted, but damage done increased to 50% of attack power, occurring after the taunt effect is applied.
# Judgement of Light: Now heals for 2% of the attacker's maximum health instead of a variable amount based on the spell power and attack power of the judging paladin.
# Lay on Hands: The buff from this ability now reduces the physical damage taken by the target by 10/20% instead of increasing the target's armor.
# Righteous Fury: No longer has a duration or mana cost, remaining until cancelled or death. Also cancelled when a Paladin activates a different talent specialization.
# Sacred Shield: When a paladin casts Flash of Light on a target with this buff, they also now place a heal over time effect on the target, healing that target for 100% of the Flash of Light amount over 12 seconds.
# Seal of Blood: This ability has been removed.
# Seal of the Martyr: This ability has been removed.
# Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.
# Shield of Righteousness: Now deals 100% of shield block value as damage instead of 130%.
# Warhorse: Can now be learned at level 20.

And 240 mana would change this a lot, yes? :P When we know how our mana capacity and usage will be in 3.2, I probably won't waste my mana on FoL'ing other people. True, but we'll see.

No. But an extra 40% of base mana used every minute through more CS's will.

[Fujiama]

# Judgement of Light: Now heals for 2% of the attacker's maximum health instead of a variable amount based on the spell power and attack power of the judging paladin.

Ah, thanks, didn't see that.

No. But an extra 40% of base mana used every minute through more CS's will.

Wait, what? How can you take ~40% more cost of ONE ability out of 5 base abilities and turn it into more mana used in general? :P

[Saurus]

There obviously gonna be reducing the mana cost of CS if there reducing the dmg and cd

as for int - ret mana pool will always be as small as possible- so that we cant heal so much in pvp ... (why do u think they changed the way manaburn works? - so that people with small mana pools dont get owned; makes no sense to increase the mana pool of smallmanapooled classes now...jeez)

HOpe they bring a better distinction between righteousness and corruption .... it would be lame if both rets and prots use the same seal ....

Ideally they could make corruption reduce ur threat (but repetitive if u got fanaticism.,..)

or just buff Righteousness so that it does something nice for prots ... (maybe change the glyph to increase ur block value by X% when u judge.. for Yseconds).... etc

[nwo]

How is the hole you've been living in lately? Must be comfy.

Went to Greece for a couple of weeks, haven't had time to read 10+ pages of MMO updates yet.... It was pretty sweet indeed.

[Fujiama]

There obviously gonna be reducing the mana cost of CS if there reducing the dmg and cd

Don't be entirely sure about this, it's Blizzard we're talking about here.

as for int - ret mana pool will always be as small as possible- so that we cant heal so much in pvp ... (why do u think they changed the way manaburn works? - so that people with small mana pools dont get owned; makes no sense to increase the mana pool of smallmanapooled classes now...jeez)

You are right here. Nothing more to say. :P

HOpe they bring a better distinction between righteousness and corruption .... it would be lame if both rets and prots use the same seal ....

Agree, we have many seals to choose between, and if 2/3 specs are going to use the same thing, it just makes the class more boring. Really.

Ideally they could make corruption reduce ur threat (but repetitive if u got fanaticism.,..) or just buff Righteousness so that it does something nice for prots ... (maybe change the glyph to increase ur block value by X% when u judge.. for Yseconds).... etc

That's a great idea, might be a little too OP though. Depends.

[Ronark]

There obviously gonna be reducing the mana cost of CS if there reducing the dmg and cd

as for int - ret mana pool will always be as small as possible- so that we cant heal so much in pvp ... (why do u think they changed the way manaburn works? - so that people with small mana pools dont get owned; makes no sense to increase the mana pool of smallmanapooled classes now...jeez)

HOpe they bring a better distinction between righteousness and corruption .... it would be lame if both rets and prots use the same seal ....

Ideally they could make corruption reduce ur threat (but repetitive if u got fanaticism.,..)

or just buff Righteousness so that it does something nice for prots ... (maybe change the glyph to increase ur block value by X% when u judge.. for Yseconds).... etc

For that to happen, SoR would have to first scale better with AP.

[Fujiama]

For that to happen, SoR would have to first scale better with AP.

And get another (of the new) Seal of Command, that just doesn't need to be taken by talent, it's baseline? :P You must agree, that WOULD be what it would become if they did that.

[Nikoll]

Right now i am worried about mana, but i'm not going to worry too much until the ptr goes up. Assuming the glyphs dont change, we all know they will, drop Con and pick up Vengence. so, pretty much instant OOM.

Reduced CS cost would be nice, but ideally i'd like another way to actually get mana. maybe make stacks of corruption "leech" mana? Not from the target. Base it off damage of the ticks is how much mana we get back (10% damage dealt?).

[nwo]

HOpe they bring a better distinction between righteousness and corruption .... it would be lame if both rets and prots use the same seal ....

Prot pallies use seal of righteousness? Not since BC. Ever since wrath came out, vengeance/corruption is the way to go for tanking.

[Fujiama]

Reduced CS cost would be nice, but ideally i'd like another way to actually get mana. maybe make stacks of corruption "leech" mana? Not from the target. Base it off damage of the ticks is how much mana we get back (10% damage dealt?).

Good idea, I like it. It wouldn't make it overpowered, and would be very usable for both Protection and Retribution paladins.

People would probably start qq'ing about paladins having infinite mana again, and our JotW would be nerfed again, so that's a no-go. Also, that's the whole concept of the current Seal of the Martyr and (upcoming) Seal of Command glyph. It's not really original, but a good idea still. Also, I don't think it should scale with the damage it does. Really. People with scrub gear should get the same mana out of it as people with good gear does. But again, I have no idea how to improve that, really.

[Fujiama]

Prot pallies use seal of righteousness? Not since BC.

I think that what he means is, that he doesn't want prot and ret paladins using the same seal, and with the 3.2 changes, ret will be using Corruption instead of Martyr. Then the only really good choice left is probably Righteousness.

[MatrixDJ]

Agreed. Vindication will provide good utility, and needing Seals of the Pure will put Divine Sacrifice out of reach anyway.

Tanks should be specing into this. Also it does not stack with demoralizing shout from warriors.
Vindication: Redesigned. Now lowers target attack power, is consistent and does not stack with Demoralizing Shout.
Likely you will always have a warrior or a paladin tank since druids are pretty much obsolite and if a raid has nothing but DK tanks then they're over stressing their healers. So rets IMO should not spec into this for raid purposes.

Ideally they could make corruption reduce ur threat (but repetitive if u got fanaticism.,..) or just buff Righteousness so that it does something nice for prots ... (maybe change the glyph to increase ur block value by X% when u judge.. for Yseconds).... etc

That's a great idea, might be a little too OP though. Depends.

I think you may be forgeting that righteous fury increases threat from holy damage by 90% and SoV does holy damage. Let alone if the glyph stays the same it will be the tanking seal.
Lastly, they are buffing block values in 3.2 also...
Block Value: The amount of bonus block value on all items has been doubled. This does not affect the base block value on shields or block value derived from strength.

[Vinictus]

Prot will still be using this seal after the patch...does this upset you?

[Fujiama]

Prot will still be using this seal after the patch...does this upset you?

No. What does your comment have to do with anything? Really? :P Nobody here said they wanted to force prot into using another seal, some people are just stating that they would want different specs to use different seals for flexibility. Since we have so many seals, why use the same seal for 2 specs?

[nwo]

Then the only really good choice left is probably Righteousness.

This is the part I don't understand. I don't see why or how seal of Righteousness is of any good use in its current state. However, if you meant that the only seal left that needs to be changed, then I fully understand that.

[Fujiama]

This is the part I don't understand. I don't see why or how seal of Righteousness is of any good use in its current state. However, if you meant that the only seal left that needs to be changed, then I fully understand that.

That is exactly what I mean. :P It isn't any good at all right now, but it CAN become good, if it gets changed. I don't see it happening anytime soon though.

[Evereghalo]

There obviously gonna be reducing the mana cost of CS if there reducing the dmg and cd

as for int - ret mana pool will always be as small as possible- so that we cant heal so much in pvp ... (why do u think they changed the way manaburn works? - so that people with small mana pools dont get owned; makes no sense to increase the mana pool of smallmanapooled classes now...jeez)

HOpe they bring a better distinction between righteousness and corruption .... it would be lame if both rets and prots use the same seal ....

Ideally they could make corruption reduce ur threat (but repetitive if u got fanaticism.,..)

or just buff Righteousness so that it does something nice for prots ... (maybe change the glyph to increase ur block value by X% when u judge.. for Yseconds).... etc

Screw that, and you ya stupid ret paladin.

Seal of Vengeance has always been the tanking seal, I even used it back in BC over righteous because it was that awesome.

If you want your own special seal, use command.

[Saurus]

Prot pallies use seal of righteousness? Not since BC. Ever since wrath came out, vengeance/corruption is the way to go for tanking.

I think that what he means is, that he doesn't want
prot and ret paladins using the same seal, and with the 3.2 changes, ret will be using Corruption instead of Martyr. Then the only really good choice left is probably Righteousness.

thx for the cover, i thought what i said was pretty much implied



As for righteous -they said in a blue -
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=65779.0

Righteousness can remain a tanking seal.

But the fact is that this seal is EXTREMELY outdated ... i mean come on - we start with this seal at lvl1 - and it hasnt changed at all since then ...

its boring- it doesnt scale well .. ur holy damage is incapable of critting ... its just boring :P

Prot and Ret SHOULD NOT be using the same seals - but from this PTR - we will be ... which is a VERY lazy game design ... seriously - the whole point of the seals/judge system is to add variety - or else we would just have 1 seal - called Seal of Boring-

If they want to eliminate blood ... fair enough (though i will miss the animation ;_ ... and revamp command (needed) .. they've obviously made that distinction that in PVE = ret uses Corr .. in PVP ret uses Command ... having Prot use Corr as welll .. meh just dilutes the uniqueness between specs.

- So if they eliminate blood and make us use Corr - they should revamp Righteousness (most probably through a glyph - or just make Corr unattractive to prot) - right now the glyph of righteousness is unimaginative and could do with a change.

EDIT:

Screw that, and you ya stupid ret paladin.

Seal of Vengeance has always been the tanking seal, I even used it back in BC over righteous because it was that awesome.

If you want your own special seal, use command.

what a moron ...

"YOU NO TAKE CANDLE!"

[Vimpster]

Perhaps like Claw for feral druids, Seal of Rightousness for prot and Seal of Command for ret are only going to be intended to be used while lvling up before you get the newer ability that replaces them.

[Deleted]

Tanks should be specing into this. Also it does not stack with demoralizing shout from warriors.
Vindication: Redesigned. Now lowers target attack power, is consistent and does not stack with Demoralizing Shout.
Likely you will always have a warrior or a paladin tank since druids are pretty much obsolite and if a raid has nothing but DK tanks then they're over stressing their healers. So rets IMO should not spec into this for raid purposes.

why have them spend rage on something we can apply for free?
offcourse if we loose any good utility or dps talent by speccing vindication its a waste but as i see it we won't realy loose any? or did i miss anything?
im not at my brightest moment having had a pretty bad cold for a couple of days and not eaten anything in the last 14 hours i think it is hard to keep track of time atm