y are paladins different?

[Geafax]

The reason i am posting this is because i am very confused.


All classes in Wow have very good abilities, but dont really have to spend talent points in able to use them.

Without Divine Storm or Crusader strike ret would be dead. Basically the only way to be a ret Pally is to have those.
THey plan on ret having a 75% damage attack ona 4 second cool down.

Y would we spec into that.

Death Knights get PLague Strike and Frost fever without even speccing into it.
but paladins have to spec into it to get it. THe thing Death knights have to spec into actually do something more intense.
THink of plague strike as crusader stirke for UNholy Death knights. Plague strike does a very good amount of dmg with lots of increases in damge with Diseases.

crusader strike does nothing...


point is.. paladins have to spec into ret in order o get attacks. Why cant paladins have some Base attack from low level that they can use higher rather then white damage.

[YigiBareTank]

One word: Shaman
An enhance shaman gets their 2 core abilities from talents as well, as well as their mana restoring CDs (just like ret with JotW).
They are both in the same boat, but since enh shammy aren't FotM they don't get a ton of hype.
Again, with the DK thing you're comparing apples to oranges. DKs are a melee class, shaman/paladins are hybrids, hence not having BASE melee attacks (warriors and rogues are same as DK in that regard).

[Jathro]

Judgment? Consecration?

[Nerph-]

y is a letter, not a word. Stop abusing it.

*pulls out his shotgun*

[Primaldjin]

Plague Stike is really more like a pallys judgement... you're probably talking about Scourge Strike, which you have to talent for.

[omglazor]

Why is any class different?



DON'T HOMOGENIZE ME BRO!

[Eyetotem]

Plague Stike is really more like a pallys judgement... you're probably talking about Scourge Strike, which you have to talent for.

More than likely he is talking about Plague Strike as Scourge Strike is a talented ability in the Unholy tree.  On the same note, the reason why the DKs have more DMG abilities at their disposal is the fact that 1st and foremost they are a Damage class, not a hybrid.  If Hybrid classes had all of the "Best" damage abilities without having to spec into the trees then they would be OP.  I would love to be an Elemental Shaman with Stormstrike to increase my nature damage

[offtopic] why did they take away the ability for other people to "use up" an Enhancement Shamans Stormstrike, that would have given an incentive to have both an Ele and Enhancement shaman in the raid[/offtopic]

[iktankniet]

they changed prot and ret to be viable.yet you aint satisfied? spoiled brat!


/shoo

[Ronark]

Ret was viable since late- TBC : /

[Adamson]

Ret was viable since late- TBC : /

*cough* 2.3 *cough*




I remember when tier 6 had spell power on it.

[Ronark]

*cough* 2.3 *cough*




I remember when tier 6 had spell power on it.

Remember when we had no Resil on our PvP gear?

Yeah and I meant Sunwell patch

[talitu]

The reason i am posting this is because i am very confused.


All classes in Wow have very good abilities, but dont really have to spend talent points in able to use them.

Without Divine Storm or Crusader strike ret would be dead. Basically the only way to be a ret Pally is to have those.
THey plan on ret having a 75% damage attack ona 4 second cool down.

Y would we spec into that.

Death Knights get PLague Strike and Frost fever without even speccing into it.
but paladins have to spec into it to get it. THe thing Death knights have to spec into actually do something more intense.
THink of plague strike as crusader stirke for UNholy Death knights. Plague strike does a very good amount of dmg with lots of increases in damge with Diseases.

crusader strike does nothing...


point is.. paladins have to spec into ret in order o get attacks. Why cant paladins have some Base attack from low level that they can use higher rather then white damage.

wow , go back to your trainer and buy all the seals and judgements? get your stun and execute while your there.

[Gnilerf]

OP, you are quite narrow-minded if you think that the talents are what make the class. Each class is given a set core abilities. As a paladin you are given the ability to judge, heal, increase your threat (Righteous Fury), and dps. However; your core abilities are specialized and focused by choosing a talent tree to spec into. By going retribution, you are choosing to focus on dpsing and you are given more abilities to do such.

Other classes (say non-hybrid damage classes) are given a lot of their damaging abilites, however in order for them to be of any use and actually do what is expected of the class, they need to choose a talent tree and focus in one direction. Mages, can't be expected to perform well without picking a talent tree and chosing the abilities that complement that spec. Rogues, same way, core-abilities that are boosted and complemented by talented abilities.

All classes are built this way so stop thinking so small. If you wanted a game that you can't specialize your core-abilities, you choose the wrong one. Old-school FPS are the other way. Even then they have some customization in what weapons you want.

[Brophius]

Main reason is game balance, leaning more toward pvp I suppose. Give pallys more baseline abilities and you'd see even more up front burst. You'd start seeing prot/ret pvp specs with good damage and huge survivability. Or you'd see rets with /equip shield /cast /reequip macros for AV and so forth. It would end in a huge nerf after QQ the likes of which would put current QQ to shame. Plus if holys had more attacks you'd see Shockadins once again that would stack SP thus having a hybrid that can dps AND heal.

They could probably rebalance the talented abilities to make them baseline, but that would be too much work. Also currently, each tree can have attacks tailored to them that stack with that spec's role.

[Primaldjin]

More than likely he is talking about Plague Strike as Scourge Strike is a talented ability in the Unholy tree. On the same note, the reason why the DKs have more DMG abilities at their disposal is the fact that 1st and foremost they are a Damage class, not a hybrid. If Hybrid classes had all of the "Best" damage abilities without having to spec into the trees then they would be OP. I would love to be an Elemental Shaman with Stormstrike to increase my nature damage

Oh trust me I think he could be talking about Plague Strike, however comparing baseline abilities to talented abilities, and then ignoring the fact that pallys also have baseline abilities is just foolish. Im simply pointing out that PS is a baseline ability, as are judgements.

[Offhand]

It's worth mentioning that the main nuke for all three DK specs are not baseline (frost strike, heart strike, scourge strike) whereas ret's current top damaging ability, seal procs, are in fact baseline talents.

/thread

[shiftynou]

*cough* 2.3 *cough*




I remember when tier 6 had spell power on it.

They never did change those spell damage socket bonuses =o (not that we went for them anyway).

[Copain]

Paladins aren't any worse than any other class. If you are wondering why you have less damage skills than others without speccing into it, it's just because of the class itself. As a 3 way Hybrid, the skills gotten while leveling give different stuff. Since you use the DK as an example, I'll do that to. The DK is a two way Hybrid, Tank and DPS. Instead of getting heal spells they focus on DPS and Tank skills. Because of this, they get more of each.

[Taintedfaith]

What's a DK spec w/o it's strikes?

What's a Druid spec w/o it's forms/mangle?

What's a Mage spec w/o AB/Pyroblast/water elemental?

What's a Hunter spec w/o pet enrage/shots/traps?

What's a shadow priest without SF and Vamp?

What's a Lock spec without SL/Haunt/EA/Felguard/conflagrate

What's a rogue spec without it's doohickeys?

And Finally, What's a Ret Pally without Crusader's Strike?

Seriously, these abilities are what makes a spec a spec, without them we are nothing.

I would never ask a Feral Druid or a Ret Paladin to Heal just because he/she has the ability to do so, as much as I would A CSless Ret Pally, Felguardless Demo lock, or doohickey-less Rogue into my Raid.

Remember: It's the talents that make the spec, the spells that make the class, and the player that makes it work.

And would you honestly want a Tankadin with Crusader's strike and Divine storm, Blizz needs the money makers Deep in the tree to make the game balanced and work as intended -- especially with hybrids.