Mana issues as a Prot Pally

[chad3d]

I'm Defense capped, I've got pretty good avoidance, I never have any issues with threat even with 5-6k DPS from Rogues, but I often have issues with running out of mana.

Here's my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...l&n=Chatterley

When ever I do dailies or even sometimes during Heroics and Raids I'll swap out my shield for my healing shield which helps with my mana issues. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40401

I always have Divine Plea up and I even judge wisdom.

Any one else have similar issues?

[iktankniet]

too much avoidance for heroics or trash in raids isnt good. you should get more block rating instead of dodge.

[GamorKilrogg]

yeah block is good, you take a bit more damage but you get mana back from heals, and you have alot more threat, possibly letting you switch to SoW when you know you have plenty. even if someone pulls aggro, taunt and switch seals if needeed. go for block.

[Astray]

Heroics:
Pull groups or stop doing consecration all the time. You dont need your full rotation in heroics. I start full one cycle of full rotation and they leave out consecration. When the fight is over, i'm at full mana, ready for the next group.

Questing:
Pull more
Pull more
Pull one enemy to the next one so plea doesnt wear off while switching targets
Pull more

...and if that does not work, use Seal of Wisdom

[Vinictus]

1. Enter heroic
2. Run randomly into every living thing there is
3. Hit consecration and holy shield
4. ???
5. Infinite mana

[LanToaster]

I run never Out of Mana in Fights. You get Practically Mana for Everything you do.

1: Getting Hit and Healed
2: Avoid, Parry Block - Everytime 2% of your Mana
3. Divin Plea - Constant Mana regeneration.

I dont see why you can go Out of Mana with this.

[nwo]

I have never had mana issues as a prot paladin, even when I first started doing heroics as prot the first month of wrath, before the divine plea change.

-Use blessing of sanct (using kings instead is epic fail)
-I don't see how you can run out of mana if you have divine plea up all the time + 2/2 SA
-Get more block, you need to be closer to 20%, so get at least 5% more
-No need to keep spamming concecrate on pulls that don't have more than 3 mobs. Avenger's shield + hammer of righteousness (with seal of vengeance/corruption)+ 1 concecrate=infinite threat and no need to keep spamming concecrate every time it's off of CD

[Font]

most prot pallies that i've noticed have mana issues are ones that refuse to use Blessing of Sanctuary.  if this is your case, then make the switch...if there's another pally, he can do Blessing of Kings for you.

[chad3d]

I run never Out of Mana in Fights. You get Practically Mana for Everything you do.

1: Getting Hit and Healed
2: Avoid, Parry Block - Everytime 2% of your Mana
3. Divin Plea - Constant Mana regeneration.

I dont see why you can go Out of Mana with this.

That's why I'm asking you guys....

I like the idea of leaving consecration out of the rotation as it IS a huge mana sink. I just try very hard to keep aggro.

[chad3d]

most prot pallies that i've noticed have mana issues are ones that refuse to use Blessing of Sanctuary. if this is your case, then make the switch...if there's another pally, he can do Blessing of Kings for you.

Yes I do use sanct over kings

[Lumidar]

if i'm really low on mana i'll skip 1 consecrate to give divine plea and other ways of gaining mana time to build up. im already ahead in threat so missing 1 consecrate isn't much

[Larivas]

-Get more block, you need to be closer to 20%, so get at least 5% more

You don't need 20% block, and saying you do is stupid. I've got considerably less than that and have no issues at all. With holy shield up 15% block = 45% block on all single target pulls. From the posts here (armory is down so I can't check) I'm assuming he's got quite a bit of avoidance, and he's probably pushing the block cap as is.

Avoidance is fine in heros, just use BoSanc. The 3% damage reduction and mana regen is worth more than kings. It'll be even better when it adds 10% stam next patch. Keep up divine plea and use BoSanc and you should never have mana probs. There's no need to judge wisdom, and its even worse to use the seal (for threat purposes).

Again, armory's down so ignore me if you've got it, but make sure you're spec'd into Guarded by the Light. I only use one point in spiritual attunement, and judge light, but with Guarded by the Light keeping divine plea up 100% of the time and BoSanc I never have any mana problems.

[nwo]

You don't need 20% block, and saying you do is stupid.

So, getting avoidance capped is stupid? Please explain this to me because I'm pretty sure that being able to dodge/block/parry every hit will not only give you huge mana gains, but it will also make you take damage consistently. Win-win imo, is it not?

Btw, I told him he needs to get [i]closer to 20% block, because depending on your other avoidance stats, that's pretty much where you should be. He is sitting at ~13% right now, and I told him that getting some block rating gear such as tier gear might be beneficial.

[Tyneside]

If you're not in danger of being 2-3 shotted, you should be using Sanc.

If you're not constantly losing aggro, you shouldn't be using Consecrate. Anything more than a 4 pull is rare in Heroics, and even then there's normally some non-elites making up the difference. If you're spamming Cons you're just wasting mana.

So, getting avoidance capped is stupid? Please explain this to me because I'm pretty sure that being able to dodge/block/parry every hit will not only give you huge mana gains, but it will also make you take damage consistently. Win-win imo, is it not?

I don't know if I would qualify it as "huge" mana gains from D/B/P. While Sanc is nice for covering the costs of the initial pull for groups, once mobs start to die the value diminishes sharply. Trying to balance your avoidance around Sanc, rather than just what works best for staying alive is kind of pointless.

[nwo]

I don't know if I would qualify it as "huge" mana gains from D/B/P. While Sanc is nice for covering the costs of the initial pull for groups, once mobs start to die the value diminishes sharply. Trying to balance your avoidance around Sanc, rather than just what works best for staying alive is kind of pointless.

On average, it would yield about 2% of your total mana per second, on a typical 3-4 mob aoe pull, that's quite a bit. I never said balance your avoidance around sanct, all pallies should be above 100% avoidance not only because it's hella easy to attain but because you will take the least amount of damage, and the damage you take will be consistent and not burst damage. Blocking twice in a row for ~2k is better than getting hit twice for an extra 2k, imo. Is it not?

[Tyneside]

Blocking twice in a row for ~2k is better than getting hit twice for an extra 2k, imo. Is it not?

Yes, and if he had 0 avoidance except for block then that would be a valid analogy.

[Aknot]

I find it depends on the group. While it is nice to use rotations sometimes you can forgo some of the abilities because there is no chance you will loose aggro.

So maybe one Conc and a hammer slap will be fine. Also remember.... If you are not being hit you are not being healed and your mana returns will suffer.

Kind of funny if you think about it.

[Larivas]

Again, judging by everyone's previous posts his other avoidance stats are high enough to make up for the lack of 5% block. If he's got 15% block (Rounding up for easy math), its 45% with holy shield. 25% dodge 20% parry (A guess, not hard to get at all, and if people are saying he's got too much avoidance he'll easily be at this.) That puts him at 90% Dodge / parry / block. He'll get the last 10% from % to be missed from defense and mobs. With raid buffs he'll be block capped. Why stack your avoidance to work under the assumption that you'll be completely unbuffed? Have you ever tanked a raid boss with zero buffs? Or stack it for heroics (because heroics are hard right)? Its wasted itemization points and again, stupid.

If his avoidance stats are lower than what I listed my guesses at, then people shouldn't be complaining about them being too high, but since those stats are so easy to get to I'm assuming he's actually quite a bit higher.

[nwo]

Yes, and if he had 0 avoidance except for block then that would be a valid analogy.

It's still a fairly valid analogy. There are plenty of times when bosses (1 target) will hit you twice in a row. When you are AoE tanking, chances of getting hit twice in a few seconds are even higher and block becomes a lot more useful.

[chad3d]

You don't need 20% block, and saying you do is stupid. I've got considerably less than that and have no issues at all. With holy shield up 15% block = 45% block on all single target pulls. From the posts here (armory is down so I can't check) I'm assuming he's got quite a bit of avoidance, and he's probably pushing the block cap as is.

Avoidance is fine in heros, just use BoSanc. The 3% damage reduction and mana regen is worth more than kings. It'll be even better when it adds 10% stam next patch. Keep up divine plea and use BoSanc and you should never have mana probs. There's no need to judge wisdom, and its even worse to use the seal (for threat purposes).

Again, armory's down so ignore me if you've got it, but make sure you're spec'd into Guarded by the Light. I only use one point in spiritual attunement, and judge light, but with Guarded by the Light keeping divine plea up 100% of the time and BoSanc I never have any mana problems.

Here's a link to my spec/ glyphs in wowhead, because the armory is down. I wish there was a way of showing my armor/weapons, but we'll just have to wait till after maintenance.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0t...dxf0x0b:pGNzcm

Oh and I appreciate a lot of the input you guys have given me so far. Good stuff. tyvm

- Chad