Hand-Mounted Pyro Rockets VS Vanish

[Accuser]

I keep hearing that Vanish and Shadowmeld will prevent you from taking damage from spells that are coming at you.

But on a pretty regular basis, I launch rockets at a rogue, they vanish, and the rockets still tag them, knocking them out of stealth.

Am I misinterpreting what is being said about Vanish and Shadowmeld, or do I just have uber heat-seeking rocket gloves?

[Phyta]

vanish has always been and will continue to be BROKEN blizzard has known since day 1 and just never fixes it.

BROKEN - meaning, that it doesnt work as they say it does. If you vanish AFTER a spell is cast, yet BEFORE it lands, its supposed to bypass you, but 80% of the time....it doesnt.

welcome to van..err failish.

[Tigercat]

The spell is not broken. This has been said a million times. Vanish breaking is caused by Latency, that's all.

Latency hurts everyone, not just rogues. Get over it.

[Piscesthepally]

I think it's a latency issue. Often times in arena when playing against a rogue team I manage to launch my gloves (at the opener) to prevent sap, and still get sapped. Same think can probably apply to a rogue vanishing here.

[Phyta]

The spell is not broken. This has been said a million times. Vanish breaking is caused by Latency

really a moot point, the spell is supposed to do something...it doesnt do it. We dont live at blizz HQ so everyone in the game will have latency, you cant really blame the player when there is something effecting a spell that us as players cant get rid of and cant remove from the failed spell equation.

Vanish - When activated does blah blah blah,and ignores all offensive spellcasts for xx seconds.. fixd, now why cant blizzard do that?

[Varmin]

I think it's a latency issue. Often times in arena when playing against a rogue team I manage to launch my gloves (at the opener) to prevent sap, and still get sapped. Same think can probably apply to a rogue vanishing here.

A lot of the issues are latency, but there are plenty of non latency related issues.

If it was simply latency, you would see a lot more other classes seeing similar issues with iceblock/bubble/fd etc etc.

[ant1pathy]

How about the "pet tracks me through vanish even when there's no way he can see me" bug? Is that latency too?

[Plawsky]

How about the "pet tracks me through vanish even when there's no way he can see me" bug? Is that latency too?

God, I hate hunters...

[Jaggers]

OH OH! How about when you gouge the pet and evasion cloak sprint and vanish and then he auto-shoots you out of stealth?!!

Im so glad I only see like one hunter a week in arena.. Gayest class there is next to DKs imo.

[Accuser]

Thanks for the clarification... and despite how fun it is to nail a rogue with a rocket after he vanishes, I hope Bliz fixes it for you guys.

[Dentoid]

what's up with warriors executing and losing rage without doing any damage
or priest SW'ing without dealing damage but takes damage anyway?

why won't we get any love? ???

[Vy]

How about the "pet tracks me through vanish even when there's no way he can see me" bug? Is that latency too?

I enjoy the fact that mage's insta invis worked MUCH better than Vanish.
or mage pets MELEEING me out of stealth after I LoS vanish them behind a pillar

[Zival]

I enjoy the fact that mage's insta invis worked MUCH better than Vanish.
or mage pets MELEEING me out of stealth after I LoS vanish them behind a pillar

its revenge for any pom pyros rogues escaped from

[zabuu]

A lot of the issues are latency, but there are plenty of non latency related issues.

If it was simply latency, you would see a lot more other classes seeing similar issues with iceblock/bubble/fd etc etc.

There are the same issues with those skills, like when purge used to be able to remove bubble if they were used at the exact same time, or when fd doesnt reset agro fast enough and you still get knocked back and out of fd or the cast youre trying to fake out still goes off.

Thing is, unlike iceblock and bubble, youre not immune for that duration so if the server thinks you were hit by that spell, then it will take you out of stealth.

[sicness]

A lot of the issues are latency, but there are plenty of non latency related issues.

If it was simply latency, you would see a lot more other classes seeing similar issues with iceblock/bubble/fd etc etc.

The difference, as stated above, is that vanish doesn't make rogues immune. It is a latency issue and they won't change anything to 'fix' people's problems with it.

[Abolishment]

OH OH! How about when you gouge the pet and evasion cloak sprint and vanish and then he auto-shoots you out of stealth?!!

Im so glad I only see like one hunter a week in arena.. Gayest class there is next to DKs imo.

So wait, you're calling for a nerf on Hunters, yet you only fight one every week in arena...
Seems to me they need buffs.

In this thread, we find all of the bad rogues who don't know how to play their class.

Here's a tip- with your cooldowns, you are an untouchable god 1v1 and to a lesser extent, 1v2. Without them, you actually need skill to kill an opponent.

Use that 'Stealth' button to hide until your cooldowns are ready and all of the mean Hunters and Death Knights are gone. I believe in you, champ.

What is NOT acceptable, however, is calling for a nerf on Hunters and Death Knights. Why? Because out of the 9 non-rogue classes in the game, those are the two you clearly cannot effortlessly kill. That means there's a problem with Death Knight and Hunter, right? Wrong. It means you think you're entitled to win every 1v1. That's not fair to people who didn't click 'Rogue' at the Character Creation screen. Other people play this game. Other classes deserve a fighting chance. The fact that Death Knights and Hunters have that fighting chance, is called 'balance'.

I enjoy the fact that mage's insta invis worked MUCH better than Vanish.
or mage pets MELEEING me out of stealth after I LoS vanish them behind a pillar

Invisibility has a hard counter. It's called 'Detect Invisibility'. To a lesser extent, it can be called 'Take Damage'. Fan of Knives does the trick. Rupture too. And if you played a Mage, you'd know that when you go Invisible, everyone else does too. So if you take two steps forward into a consecrate you don't see, you just wasted a cooldown. Add that to the fact that non-arcane Invisibility has a three second 'fade time', and it's safe to say Invisibility is not a comparable ability. Frost is the only arena spec for Mages. Will be that way for a long time. Arcane is a cute battleground spec, but they can't use it in Arena or they die.

The difference, as stated above, is that vanish doesn't make rogues immune. It is a latency issue and they won't change anything to 'fix' people's problems with it.

Ask any Mage or Paladin about failed attempts to Bubble/Iceblock. It will eat the cooldown and you will die anyways. They have a small 'in flight' time between when the cooldown is triggered and the mana is taken away, and you gaining the immunity effects. Works like that for every ability in the game.

Also, to path411, Hunters do see a lot of issues with Feign Death. Casts go through, pets don't drop target, melee kills you anyways. It's just as buggy as Vanish. It can't even be cast while moving.

[Quinny]

OH OH! How about when you gouge the pet and evasion cloak sprint and vanish and then he auto-shoots you out of stealth?!!

Im so glad I only see like one hunter a week in arena.. Gayest class there is next to DKs imo.

There's a reason you only see one hunter in arena a week - try playing one. You don't even need to gouge my pet in arena - 90% of the time it gets stuck in the elevator before the battle even begins, and even if it doesn't you and your partner can kill it in <2 seconds - assuming it hasn't got stuck on one of the pillars. How about the "rogues run through flare only to be revealed 3 seconds later" bug? Wait, that's latency. Same goes for frost traps rooting you in place a good 10 yards from the trap itself when you sprint over it.

On topic: Deterrence doesn't stop a spell from landing after it's been cast, neither does vanish.

[Dozzie]

Vanish is a pretty intressting thing. And when people dont know how its accually is working they tend to scream bug whenever it doesnt go as they want to.
While vanish might look like its abit buggy, you can also learn how exactly vanish accually is working and use it in your favor.

Im gonna make a few exampels for you so you get a better understanding of the mechanics

First im gonna do some exampels about spells like PoM Pyro, Death Coil, Pyro Rockets, etc. A spell which is instant, but have a travel time before it reaches you.
If you wanna vanish a spell like this, absorbing its damage. What you simply need to do is to vanish right before this spell is about to hit you, while its in the air. Depending on the distance to you, the damage will hit you before the accual spell reaches you. A vanish needs to be done right before the damage is gonna hit you, not before the graphical spell is gonna hit you. This is something you will get a general feeling of after time when it will happen.

Now this is a scenario where you vanish this spell but it will hit you and you will take full damage. If you vanish when the accual spell is leaving the hands of the caster. The spell will be launched at you and find you while you are in stealth of the vanish and hit you out of hit and you take full damage.
So lets say you are facing a warlock, and you know pretty much exactly when he's gonna death coil. (depending on the range to him, but if you are a few yards away from melee range) and you vanish as he death coils. Youl will be thrown out of vanish and sit in the death coil. If you instead wait slightly with the vanish, so you catches the death coil in the air, and close to hitting you. It will get vanished and intended.
This can also be used to prevent other rogues from getting their vanish off. If you know when they gonna vanish. Shoot a pyro rocket at them as the vanish happens, and they will be taken out of it. Dont missjudge tho!
This is something that is commonly used by the really good mages to get rogues out of their vanishes. They know when they will vanish (after some time playing this game you get a general feeling of how rogues thinks ) and they shoot off an ice lance exactly as they vanishes, and it hits them out.

Same effect applies to casted spells with a traveling time btw. If you wanna vanish a frost bolt. Vanishing as the cast just finishes, will hit you out of vanish. While vanishing while its in the air (or right before it hits you) will make you vanish it perfectly fine. Vanishing while he is casting obviusly works fine too, since the cast then gets interrupted. But then he wasted no mana doing it either, and it looks way less cool!


Now to instant spells without a cast time. Im gonna use blind as a perfect example here
To vanish a blind, you simply vanish exactly as he is blinding you. This will absorb the blind and you're 1 big step closer to win vs the rogue!
But another commonly used technique by the better rogues around is to blind a vanish. Meaning you intentionally blind someone as they are gonna vanish, as an result of them getting blinded in the vanish and hitting them out of the vanish and sitting in a blind. Very often used vs rogues that have an intention of vanishing your blind, but instead you can turn it around.
What you have to do here is that you have to blind SLIGHTLY after he vanishes. If you wait until you see he vanishes, and then instantly press blind. You will be too slow.
Therefore its very important that you know exactly when he gonna vanish (gonna explain soon how you know that). When you know he gonna vanish, dont press blind. Just wait a split 10th of a second before hitting blind. This will hit him out of the vanish and being stuck in blind.

Im gonna put up another little scenario. This time as a rogue vs rogue duel.

Lets say you're being caught in a sap. The rogue opens on you with a cheap shot. You instantly trinkets the cheap shot and blind the rogue. He will most likely trinket the blind and then instantly blind you after. If this is the case. Pretty much as soon as he trinkets, you wanna wait very very very short ammount of time, and then hit vanish! This will vanish his blind that he just casted on you. You can confirm that you vanished the blind by the blind animation that will be casted by him. Or possibly if you have an cd tracker like afflicted that shows his blind got on cd.

This duel is common sense for alot of rogues, so lets take it to the next level
The duel plays out the same way. But since you vanishes his blinds, he this time decides to blind your vanish!
You get sapped, and he opens with a cheap shot. You trinket, instantly blinds him. He trinkets. But instead of instantly blinding you. He holds back just for an blink of an eye. Then hit blind!
It will almost look like he blinds right into your vanish. But you will very soon notice you're being taken out of stealth and wanders around in the blind he just casted!


Melee hits works pretty much the same way as instant spells with no travel time. And auto shots works like instants with a travel time.
To vanish a hunter pet + a bunch of auto shots will often take you out of vanish. Mainly cause many of the hits are either leaving the hunter just as you vanishes. Or the pet hits you RIGHT after you vanishes.

Vanish might seemce bugged. And yes, perhaps it is aswell. But you gotta see it from the bright side too. When you really get to know how vanish accually works. It can be used in your favor and against you favor. But atleast you know how to avoid many of the times since you are familiar to the mechanics. And you can take advantage of them and use them as a really good tool aswell.


I know this is common sense for any top rogue out there. But since there was a thread about it, and no one semce to really explain how it accually works and everyone just blaming it on latency and bugs and bla bla bla! Take the time and accually use it as a good thing

And sorry for the wall of text! I hope it can be intressting for some of you atleast

[pomterri]

LAAAAAAAAGGGG!!

[Refreshment]

really a moot point, the spell is supposed to do something...it doesnt do it. We dont live at blizz HQ so everyone in the game will have latency, you cant really blame the player when there is something effecting a spell that us as players cant get rid of and cant remove from the failed spell equation.

Vanish - When activated does blah blah blah,and ignores all offensive spellcasts for xx seconds.. fixd, now why cant blizzard do that?

Do you know HOW MANY TIMES HEALS HAVE LANDED AND THE PLAYER DIE AND DON'T RECIEVE THE HP EVEN THOU THE HEAL IS CAST AND FINISHED BEFORE THE KILLING BLOW?

As mentioned, rogues are not the only one being affected by latency. Get over it.