Healing Light or Divinity as Ret in 3.2?

[Deathleech]

I was messing around with some specs for 3.2 and I am pretty sure this is the one I will go with:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10147

Obviously this is a strictly PVE spec. As you can see I have 4 points left over. I was wondering what you guys think would be better to spend those last points on, Divinity or Healing Light?

The pros of Divinity are that it affects all your heals, including Divine Storm. However it would be 4 points into the talent and only give you 8% more healing on yourself, or 4% more on friendly targets. Divine Storm doesn't really heal for a ton as is so this would be a small increase.

On the other hand for only 3 points you could get Healing Light instead and that would increase your instant Flash of Lights by 12% regardless of the target. It would also increase your Holy Light by more if you really have to use it in a pinch too. You would have 1 point left to spend on whatever and be healing for more with the heals it affects, it just wouldn't affect everything.

[Taotao]

Divinity 5/5 , take 2 points from useless vindication and put one in Divine Sacrifice which is always good to have.

[rafein]

I'm not a fan of Divine Sacrifice unless your getting Divine Guardian for Improved Sacred Shield.

[Aerenne]

Lol, did you really spec into Seal of Command or is the link bugging?

[Deathleech]

Vindication is suppose to be significantly better for PVE with the changes it's getting. I think it was Ghostcrawler who said the AP reduction could be as much as 20% physical dmg reduction on bosses. If you have a warrior to do Demoralizing Shout it may not be as needed, but even then a warrior has to spend 5/5 in Imp DS and also waste rage to keep it up. It's MUCH easier for a ret pally to pick up Vindication and apply it almost every melee attack without wasting resources. Not only that but Divine Sacrifice can only safely be used when you have your bubble up, so every 5 minutes. It's marginally useful at best.

[Vincentbaali]

Yes, he really specced into command. A great many seals are being removed in 3.2...

[Deathleech]

Lol, did you really spec into Seal of Command or is the link bugging?

Yes I did. For fights like Thorim and Razorscale that have lots of little adds that die quick, SoCommand is going to be invaluable. You can use it for the add phases to DPS them down faster then switch to Vengeance for bosses. You will pump out SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than just using Vengeance the whole time. Not only that it will also be great for doing dailys and killing non elite mobs. For 1 measly point it is definitely worth picking up. Anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

[Aezar@ymail.com]

MMO-Champion really is not the best place to ask these questions and expect a straight forward answer, I sudjest going to www.elitistjerks.com they can help you along with a forum topic thats dedicated to solving 3.2 Ret Paladin questions.

[Aezar@ymail.com]

Lol, did you really spec into Seal of Command or is the link bugging?

This is why you may want to stick with your Priest forums and not hang around the Ret house. Just a thought.

[Deathleech]

Ya, most the people on these forums are totally uneducated as can already be seen in this thread. Regardless some times you can get some good, intelligent discussion going about the topic at hand.

If it's not apparent already I am probably leaning towards taking 3/3 into Healing Light to see how that works out. I was really looking for some people who might have good points as to why I shouldn't take it, maybe I am missing something.

[rafein]

Yes I did. For fights like Thorim and Razorscale that have lots of little adds that die quick, SoCommand is going to be invaluable. You can use it for the add phases to DPS them down faster then switch to Vengeance for bosses. You will pump out SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than just using Vengeance the whole time. Not only that it will also be great for doing dailys and killing non elite mobs. For 1 measly point it is definitely worth picking up. Anyone who doesn't is an idiot.

Still, since your specced for Seals of the Pure, I'd think SoR would be enough for killing weaker adds quicky,

[lolcakes]

This is why you may want to stick with your Priest forums and not hang around the Ret house. Just a thought.

lolol even a priest knows how to spec a ret better than a ret does.

if you're speccing into command when you're dumping 5 points into seals of the pure it really shows who's an idiot.

[iktankniet]

SoC judgement does less dmg then SoR judgement as it is now

Still, since your specced for Seals of the Pure, I'd think SoR would be enough for killing weaker adds quicky,

this would be a correct answer for that part.

Divinity has less potential in 3.2, because it doesnt scale with JoL anymore. i would only take it to get Divine sacrifice.

this spec for example.

[Deathleech]

lolol even a priest knows how to spec a ret better than a ret does.

if you're speccing into command when you're dumping 5 points into seals of the pure it really shows who's an idiot.

Heaven forbid you would use different seals for different situations *GASP*

Do you honestly think you are going to be able to get 5 stacks of Vengeance up on multiple mobs like the ones in Thorim's arena, or the ones that spawn with Razorscale before they die? Lets see, spending several seconds trying to get 5 stacks on multiple mobs and THEN doing 48% weapon dmg OR doing 36% right off the bat. It's a no brainer. Heck, you probably won't even get a full 5 stacks on the main mob you are targeting every time since they die so fast, much less all the rest of them getting AoE'd that you aren't targeting.

As for Seal of Righteous doing more than Command, is it just the judgment or the seal portion too? You aren't going to be using Command for it's huge judgment damage or great single target DPS, you are gonna use it to AoE weak adds. Unless the judgment on SoR is WAY more and the seal dmg is damn near the same as Commands then again, you will want to use Command to AoE down weak adds.

[lolcakes]

Heaven forbid you would use different seals for different situations *GASP*

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Deathleech

well if that's you then it explains everything. you simply have no idea at all.

Do you honestly think you are going to be able to get 5 stacks of Vengeance up on multiple mobs like the ones in Thorim's arena, or the ones that spawn with Razorscale before they die? Lets see, spending several seconds trying to get 5 stacks on multiple mobs and THEN doing 48% weapon dmg OR doing 36% right off the bat. It's a no brainer. Heck, you probably won't even get a full 5 stacks on the main mob you are targeting every time since they die so fast, much less all the rest of them getting AoE'd that you aren't targeting.

hi superfriend, let me introduce you to.. seal of righteousness

As for Seal of Righteous doing more than Command, is it just the judgment or the seal portion too? You aren't going to be using Command for it's huge judgment damage or great single target DPS, you are gonna use it to AoE weak adds. Unless the judgment on SoR is WAY more and the seal dmg is damn near the same as Commands then again, you will want to use Command to AoE down weak adds.

here's a hint superfriend, weak adds don't survive long enough for a 2nd DS, so whatever extra dps you're getting from command with DS for aoe over righteousness on weak adds basically amounts to not enough to waste a talent point on.

[Deathleech]

First off that's not me. I woulda thought you would of been tipped off I play Alliance when I kept saying Vengeance instead of Corruption, but apparently not.

Second I haven't bothered getting on the PTR to test Righteous with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure. I will ask again, is the seal dmg relatively close with Command/Righteous or not? How much more is the judgment damage?

Sure the adds die fast but you fight them for a good portion of the fight. If you do 20 Divine Storms that extra 200 dmg per seal/target, or 800 total per DS can add up. SoC is only a single point anyways so it's not exactly like you are wasting 5/5 points in the talent, or having to spec further down holy. Also there aren't many other options for so it's not a big deal.

[Ronark]

First off that's not me. I woulda thought you would of been tipped off I play Alliance when I kept saying Vengeance instead of Corruption, but apparently not.

Second I haven't bothered getting on the PTR to test Righteous with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure. I will ask again, is the seal dmg relatively close with Command/Righteous or not? How much more is the judgment damage?

Sure the adds die fast but you fight them for a good portion of the fight. If you do 20 Divine Storms that extra 200 dmg per seal/target, or 800 total per DS can add up. SoC is only a single point anyways so it's not exactly like you are wasting 5/5 points in the talent, or having to spec further down holy. Also there aren't many other options for so it's not a big deal.

SoC hits for about the same as 5/5 SotP Righteousness, but the damage can crit.
The Judgements from SoC, however, crit for 2.3k at most, whereas Righteousness Judgements crit for 5k.

[lolcakes]

First off that's not me. I woulda thought you would of been tipped off I play Alliance when I kept saying Vengeance instead of Corruption, but apparently not.

Second I haven't bothered getting on the PTR to test Righteous with 5/5 into Seals of the Pure. I will ask again, is the seal dmg relatively close with Command/Righteous or not? How much more is the judgment damage?

Sure the adds die fast but you fight them for a good portion of the fight. If you do 20 Divine Storms that extra 200 dmg per seal/target, or 800 total per DS can add up. SoC is only a single point anyways so it's not exactly like you are wasting 5/5 points in the talent, or having to spec further down holy. Also there aren't many other options for so it's not a big deal.

here's a hint: the damage of judgements from SoR alone, even untalented already outweighs the extra pitiful damage from aoe DS using SoC.

[Deathleech]

Right now my Martyr is listed as doing 1118 max seal dmg. SoCommand on the PTR is 12% less than that, so roughly 985. Compare that to Righteous which is listed as 473 damage. Even with Seals of the Pure it will only be doing roughly 530 dmg per seal hit. That's almost HALF of what each Command seal will hit for (a 455 dmg difference).

So lets say even if you are able to get 5k crits with Righteous compared to 2.3k crits with Command on the PTR, that's 2.7k more dmg with your judgment every 8 seconds. In the same time you are going to be doing 2-3 melee swings, 2-3 Crusader Strikes, and a Divine Storm. That's anywhere from 8-10 seals hitting, at roughly 455 more damage EACH. That comes out to be 3640-4550 dmg more EVERY 8 SECONDS.

So supersmartguy superfriend, you are looking at a gain of roughly 1-2k dmg every 8 seconds when using Command over Righteous. That's around 250 more DPS. BUT WAIT, THAT'S NOT ALL! We totally forgot to factor in that Righteous cannot crit, where as Command can which boosts those numbers even further ahead! I guess I will be using that 1 extra talent point in SoC and pumping out 250-350 more DPS while you are putting it in uber useful things like Divinity for 1% more heal. Cause 1% more heal > 250+ DPS, right? GG.

[lolcakes]

Right now my Martyr is listed as doing 1118 max seal dmg. SoCommand on the PTR is 12% less than that, so roughly 985. Compare that to Righteous which is listed as 473 damage. Even with Seals of the Pure it will only be doing roughly 530 dmg per seal hit. That's almost HALF of what each Command seal will hit for (a 455 dmg difference).

it's like you're very keen to prove to everyone that you're.. terribad or something?

here's another hint superfriend: tooltips are not accurate

on PTR 5/5 SotP SoR hits for around 10% less than SoC, while judgements SoR hits around twice as hard.

So lets say even if you are able to get 5k crits with Righteous compared to 2.3k crits with Command on the PTR, that's 2.7k more dmg with your judgment every 8 seconds. In the same time you are going to be doing 2-3 melee swings, 2-3 Crusader Strikes, and a Divine Storm. That's anywhere from 8-10 seals hitting, at roughly 455 more damage EACH. That comes out to be 3640-4550 dmg more EVERY 8 SECONDS.

let's use 4 white swings, 3 cstrikes and 1 DS and 1 judgement

command proccing 750, judging for 1000
righteous proccing 675, judging for 2000

righteous is ahead by 600 damage assuming no crits.

4 command crit procs and judgement crit = 4000 extra damage

0 righteous crit procs and judgement crit = 2000 extra damage

so under 50% crit assumption SoC comes out ahead by an extra 1400 damage assuming you hit 4 targets at all times.

So supersmartguy superfriend, you are looking at a gain of roughly 1-2k dmg every 8 seconds when using Command over Righteous. That's around 250 more DPS. BUT WAIT, THAT'S NOT ALL! We totally forgot to factor in that Righteous cannot crit, where as Command can which boosts those numbers even further ahead! I guess I will be using that 1 extra talent point in SoC and pumping out 250-350 more DPS while you are putting it in uber useful things like Divinity for 1% more heal. Cause 1% more heal > 250+ DPS, right? GG.

here's another hint for you: righteousness pumps out more reliable single target damage than command due to not being able to be dodged or parried even though it can't crit as well as it's much harder hitting judgement which also brings bigger RV ticks that actually makes a difference on the single target you're targeting.

pro tip: if trash lives long enough to matter, tab with vengeance. if trash doesn't live long enough to matter, then choice of seals is irrelevant.

and if you paid any attention you'd realise for trash fights like thorim consecration will be 1st or 2nd on dps assuming you can keep it up. making the choice of seals even less relevant.

so yes, only bad paladins use seal of command.