Originally Posted by
Liquid_Beaver
1. Those still add up to 11%. He was talking about potential. We have the potential to receive +11% more healing through talents. Whether or not a resto druid is there is not a valid argument when we are isolating the skills and talents of a warrior from a pally.
2. Told him no it isn't right and then added the 3% Divine Plea glyph, making the 11% exactly the same as before.
3. There are many instances where Divine Sacrifice is useful. Just because you are awful at bringing utility to your own raid doesn't mean someone else can't actually do a good job. You are speaking from strictly a MT, and single pally tank, type of raid. There are times when there are two pally tanks, as well as time when there is a pally as an OT, and in both cases a pally can find a use for reducing raidwide damage by a talented 40%. More often then not these are OT examples, but assuming you are gonna pallytank Vezax better than a DK or a Druid is a stretch. Auriaya, Freya, Mimiron, XT, Gluth, Grobbulus, Ignus (blow it for someone in the pot, who cares it helps), Onyxia, Vezax. Nearly all fights can benefit in some way from it, its just all about which pally pops it, and that paladin's job in the raid.
4. 400 less damage is 400 less damage. It's as simple as that. Take that Holy Pally out of the picture (5 or a 10 man is probable), and YOU are the one with an improved Sacred Shield. This is all about bringing utility or surviviability (however small) when someone else can't. Like specing vindication when you regularly run without a feral druid or warrior in the group. Your justification is like saying no one should ever go with Hodir shoulder enchants because it's only 15 dodge. Yes it's "only" 15 dodge, but that is on top of the dodge you already have. It's "only" 400+ damage reduction ever few seconds, but that's on top of other mitigation talents.
5. While you corrected the CD for this spell, yet again you miss the utility. A "bad" mechanic is broken. This mechanic simply requires a little finesse, which from your descriptions you lack the patience or understanding to use. I would not trade my 3-mob, 40 yard, friendly-targetable taunt for a warrior AoE taunt.
6. Another gross assumption. The sheer numbers of different reasons why Ardent Defender can proc are way more complicated than you are trying to make it seem. A 2 second silence with a heavy hitting boss could be enough to proc it. Avoiding a class because of a "potential" nerf is just as asinine as rolling a FOTM class because it's OP. Many blue posts state that their opinion on Ardent Defender is that they are happy with it. The players complaining about AD are the same ones complaining about rogues when they got Cheat Death.
You are talking like you have perfect raids where no one even bothers with talking on vent because everyone is so pr0 that you don't need to, and everyone heals 10k HPS and the DPS does 12k at all time and everything is easy. He already said his gear won't be the greatest, and if his gear isnt the greatest the instances he will be running will probably be with other players whose gear isn't the greatest. Chances are he won't be tagging along in Heroic TotGC being carried by his guild. He will progress through his gear, and while he does that he will progress through raid quality, gear, and composition as well.
You can NOT say that he will always get a perfect heal, or that no one will ever pull aggro, or disconnect. Stop talking about this subject like there is this singularity where epicness converges, and talk like you shouldn't even have to spec into Ardent Defender at all because if you go under 35% "someone isn't doing their job", and you should never need that extra 20% reduced damage.
The only someone who isn't doing their job is you. Be a competent and proactive tank.
The only thing you were right about is that he should play the class he loves, even if another is better for the time being.