RV not breaking repentance for 3.3

[Sensei_Sin]

Or change your comp?

Could this change open up the possibility to other comps for Ret? Like Ret/lock/priest ? or a resto shaman/druid instead of priest maybe?

[meag333]

RV, is alot like deep wounds. And everyone knows, Deep wounds is a big deal. This is a nice change and should being a decent boost to alot of ret comps that dont have rogues or mages.

[shiftynou]

then why the fix?

besides, you cant control RV proc, thats what makes it especially bad when using divine storm.
btw, blizz stated they reworked RV in such a way (dot) in order to remove burst and give sustained damage
if you dont learn RV for arenas, you just rob your self from additional damage, gz)

Damage isn't the only thing that matters in pvp.

[meag333]

except the part that deep wounds tick like fuck, are physical (non dispellable), provide trauma debuff, stack itself, and proc from ALL critical attacks.

So Like as in similar. Were not warriors. We dont need deep wounds. And the reason they tick so hard is because of trauma. RV can and does have decent ticks. And think about it. RV not breaking repent so its safe to take. T9 2set?

Since when does deep wounds stack?

Also deep wounds procs of of average weapon damage. RV scales with the damage of the hit. So if your RVs are crap. Your gear is probably crap.

[Asgard]

except the part that deep wounds tick like fuck, are physical (non dispellable), provide trauma debuff, stack itself, and proc from ALL critical attacks.

Tick like fuck ? I don't know, never played a warrior seriously.
Are physical thus non dispellable ? Meh... As a Paladin I could complain HoP dispells deep wounds but not RV... c wut i did thar ?
Deep wounds don't provide trauma. Crits do. Your crits provide your an instant FoL. Seems fair to me.
Stack itself ? You mean if you chain crit, damage adds and adds to the deep wound "pool" ? Yeah, like RV.

So yeah basically the message is, when you don't know shit, just remain silent. Please.

[Pozz]

fixT.



i mean, lets imagine a 2v2 game your team is ret+rogue, against , f.e., priest+rogue

you hit divine storm, storm critically hits priest, he gets RV dot, and then your rogue uses blind on him, RV ticks and fucks up cc.
is it a buff?

/vote RV not breaking from all kinds of dots.

It's basicly a matter of how you define it... It's a fix cause to me even as a retardin hater it seems weird it's working like this, but the end result is a buff. So you can argue the sake that it's a buff caused by the fix, which is the definition blizzard themselves gave when talking about fixing vanish. Blizzard don't want a buff caused by a fix causing a class to become superior (overpowered) due to that exact fix. And honestly, I don't see this thing changing a lot if you meet a retardin alone, and surely fixes a lot of "unfair" problems in an arena enviroment.

I don't understand however why people have to argue for a full page wether it's a fix, or a fix resulting in a buff however =)

[greysin]

so isn't this the only incapacitate in game that doesn't break on damage?

wasn't that the only difference in a stun and incapacitate?

so when are mages gonna be able to do damage to you without breaking sheep i wonder?

[Tethalaki]

Since when does deep wounds stack?

Deep Wounds rolls it's damage like Paladin's RV and has done since 3.0.

except the part that deep wounds tick like fuck, are physical (non dispellable), provide trauma debuff, stack itself, and proc from ALL critical attacks.

Man, honestly, if you're getting massive Deep Wound ticks in PvP, unequip your PvE gear and get some Resilience on.

[rabbimojo]

There is a difference between making it not break on damage and waiting 5 months to fix this bug.

Comments like this are why it's so hard to take ret opinions seriously. RV breaking repentance is not exactly the biggest bug in the barrel. Whatever that means. ;D

So Like as in similar. Were not warriors. We dont need deep wounds. And the reason they tick so hard is because of trauma. RV can and does have decent ticks. And think about it. RV not breaking repent so its safe to take. T9 2set?

Since when does deep wounds stack?

Also deep wounds procs of of average weapon damage. RV scales with the damage of the hit. So if your RVs are crap. Your gear is probably crap.

Since this is an oft-misunderstood thing, here's a short lesson from your friendly neighbourhood theorycrafter!

Deep Wounds, Ignite, and Unholy Blight all """stack""", and have for quite awhile now (except UB, since it's new).
They stack in the sense that the damage is not lost when another proc lands, but is instead added to the total, then recalculated.

So like, suppose DW is ticking for 500 every 2 seconds or whatever. (1500 total I guess?)
Then, suppose you crit again at 5 seconds, and again at 7 seconds, each adding another 1500 DW stack.
0sec: - (1500 remaining)
2sec: 500 (1000 remaining)
4sec: 500 (500 remaining)
5sec: - (+1500, 2000 remaining)
6sec: 667 (1333 remaining)
7sec: - (+1500, 2833 remaining)
8sec: 944 (1889 remaining)
etc.

Eventually it plateaus, since the "remaining" pool drains faster and faster the more it stacks. It isn't like a traditional stack which doesn't maintain a "remaining" pool, rather just retains 'per tick', and adds onto that.

I would be fairly surprised if RV doesn't do this. It would take all of a single minute on a healthy dummy to test this, but my account isn't active right now. :P

(If someone does test it, go post it on wowhead)

so isn't this the only incapacitate in game that doesn't break on damage?

wasn't that the only difference in a stun and incapacitate?

so when are mages gonna be able to do damage to you without breaking sheep i wonder?

Repentance breaks on anything other than RV damage, still.
Feral's Maim didn't break on damage from bleeds, for awhile. It's a stun now, however.
Also, sheep is spammable..? It's a very different beast from repentance.

[meag333]

damage is a thing that matters since retpaladin relies on burst, not outlasting nor controlling.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...BE%D1%80%D0%BE <-- tads me.
i often do notice wondrous 300+ (critical) , poo powerful imo
deep wounds DO learn mechanics pls.
also deep wounds again proc off of every attack, not limited to some moves.

So to show you how wrong you are here are my 2 characters. Obviously my paladin is in my comment. Here is my warrior.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...xodar&n=Sorias

Now my warriors DW
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6855/deepwounds.png


My Paladins RV
http://img59.imageshack.us/i/92680734.png/

In short. They are compareable. And if ur crits do 300, then gtfo ur gear is horribad.

*Edit. The link to DW was not working. Should be fixed

[meag333]

since when did it become cool to compare dummy tests?( im more than sure ur paladin was wearing pve gear when u made these screenshots, not sure bout warrior tho)

and if my crits do 300, then you gtfo try to whack a restodruid harder mkay.
btw, my gear is lotsa better than ur warrior has.

LoL, your fail. So fail its hilarious. There is one thing different on my char than whats on my armory, and its t9 gloves to get the RV crits to show u how nice they are. And I used a dummy to compare damage of the 2 spells. U said DW hits so much harder, well its not showing through the same tests, on the same dummies using only buffs the 2 classes can provide to themself. And just to prove how much of an asshat you are

http://img407.imageshack.us/i/wowscr...609020845.jpg/

A full screenshot. Showing my paladin with his pvp gear on lawl.

[meag333]

a very good line you should reapeat it to yourself since i was speaking about Rv and Dw ticks @ ARENA, not dummies, you jackass.

you might not know, but well, a good geared player has some kind of higher armor, and way more resilience, than a dummy.

High armor AND resil would affect DW.

Resil would affect RV, but not armor since RV is holy damage. Making RV the stronger of the two.

And you compared the two spells directly. These are both of the spells on the same target. Making this comparison between the two spells valid. Your trying to make DW seem so much better than RV has failed. They are very similar, and act in similar ways. I am done here seeing as how you are just going to refuse to accept it.

*Edit- Just for fun i took 20%(~900 resil) off of my avg RV crit from the parse. The result was 886. Still over twice the damage of your supposed crit...

[omegatrigun]

so isn't this the only incapacitate in game that doesn't break on damage?

wasn't that the only difference in a stun and incapacitate?

so when are mages gonna be able to do damage to you without breaking sheep i wonder?

It still breaks on everything else, just not RV ticks. A stun means you can hit them with anything and it won't break. Repentance will still break from any damage except RV.

[Sellest]

@Hollow_Sorrow: Go and roll warrior since you so much envy DW that you had to spam this thread with your QQ to oblivion :

[Nexus2089]

There is a difference between making it not break on damage and waiting 5 months to fix this bug.

Paladin meet rogue

[meag333]

It still breaks on everything else, just not RV ticks. A stun means you can hit them with anything and it won't break. Repentance will still break from any damage except RV.

Im sure the way it works this way is RV was meant to be a fix to add contant damage to a target similar to warriors to keep damage from being too bursty, but not nerf it. In the end it ended up being a nerf cause RV broke repent(a mechanic warriors don't have.) so alot of paladins didnt grab RV effectively nerfing overall damage. So this change was made for our own personal benefit as to not nerf our damage, but allow us to use the spells blizzard gave us.

since when did armor mean anything to warriors?
you has no armpen softcap ?)

DW isnt affected by ARP.

Armor penetration benefits- Armor penetration will increase non-Bleed physical damage by a percentage significant for virtually every target, however, for lightly armored targets it is less effective in the damage it provides.

btw, on your screenshot, dw TICKED for 800+
and now you tell me rv CRITTED for 800+
no idea huh?

Someone failed reading comprehension huh!!!!!
Since you made the argument about players having resilience. I took the average crit from my paladins SS which was 1108, and reduced it by 20% which would be 900 resil which most decently geard clothies would be close to. probably 100-200 resil higher. which = out to be 886. Which is alot more (+586) than your supposed RV crits.

[meag333]

the fact RV breaks others cc effectively nullifies the bugfix.

everyone knows the harder armor is, the more useful arpen is.
now what does applicate dw ?
every single mudfocking critical attack, which are all strangely enough considered melee, and thus affected by arpen.


ok i admit, i might said be wrong on the numbers for rv, but it will never be superior nor equal to dw, no matter what you say.

but you dont understand. You are dead wrong. What happens if a warrior whirlwinds and crits both targets. His rogue tries to CC a target with DWs on it what happens? It Breaks.


What happens if a paladin DS' and crits all targets with it. His rogue tries to blind, what happens? It breaks. Sounds working as intended to me no?

now what does applicate dw ?
every single mudfocking critical attack, which are all strangely enough considered melee, and thus affected by arpen.

Yes but strangely enough Deep Wounds damage application isnt calculated like RV.

Righteous Vengeance Rank 3

When your Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm spells deal a critical strike, your target will take 30% additional damage over 8 sec.

Deep Wounds Rank 3

Requires Melee Weapon
Your critical strikes cause the opponent to bleed, dealing 48% of your melee weapon's average damage over 6 sec.

Im pretty sure your melee weapons average damage is NOT affected by armor pen. So NO! Armor pen has nothing to do to with DW. And YES, a 2set T-9 makes RV ALOT better.

[omegatrigun]

What happens if a paladin DS' and crits all targets with it. His rogue tries to blind, what happens? It breaks. Sounds working as intended to me no?

Righteous Vengeance Rank 3

When your Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm spells deal a critical strike, your target will take 30% additional damage over 8 sec.

[Eärendil]

LoL, your fail. So fail its hilarious. There is one thing different on my char than whats on my armory, and its t9 gloves to get the RV crits to show u how nice they are. And I used a dummy to compare damage of the 2 spells. U said DW hits so much harder, well its not showing through the same tests, on the same dummies using only buffs the 2 classes can provide to themself. And just to prove how much of an asshat you are

http://img407.imageshack.us/i/wowscr...609020845.jpg/

A full screenshot. Showing my paladin with his pvp gear on lawl.

any sort of scientific (I use the word scientific as this is how science approaches this kind of issue) comparison done must be done between two characters whose item level on gear and stats are about equivalent - which is quite hard to do.

[meag333]

AOE's target everything in the AOE. So anything hit by the AOE you are casting would be qualified as your target. You casted the AOE knowing that the other target was in range, so it is a target.

Oh wait, " I didnt wan't my blizzard to hit the one right next to the add i was actually targeting. Needs fix!!!"