Balance Druid Changes - Can someone help me understand?

[superdooper]

Druid (Forums / Talent Calculator)
* Eclipse: This effect will not activate again within 15 seconds of either type of Eclipse effect firing, in addition to the existing 30-second cooldown for each type of Eclipse.


The wording of the Eclipse change is very confusing for me. What is meant by "Eclipse effect firing". Is this when the initial eclipse is proc'd? If so, how is it any different than what we have already? Or is this related to that mod that auto-unclicks your eclipse buff for you?

Thanks!

[superdooper]

bump

[Citano]

think it means you cannot activate the other eclipse before 15secs after the current one was activated as in not allowed to proc the other eclipse by removing the current one by like right-clicking/cancelaura etc. and then proc the other one. If this is true then it will screw up for those who use addon/macro to get a solar eclipse running right after a lunar eclipse by cancelling current lunar as the last starfire is hitting

i might have read it wrong but only way i understood it atleast

[Sunfyre]

Druid (Forums / Talent Calculator)
* Eclipse: This effect will not activate again within 15 seconds of either type of Eclipse effect firing, in addition to the existing 30-second cooldown for each type of Eclipse.


The wording of the Eclipse change is very confusing for me. What is meant by "Eclipse effect firing". Is this when the initial eclipse is proc'd? If so, how is it any different than what we have already? Or is this related to that mod that auto-unclicks your eclipse buff for you?

Thanks!

This is meant to nerf WiseEclipse.

[Sunfyre]

think it means you cannot activate the other eclipse before 15secs after the current one was activated as in not allowed to proc the other eclipse by removing the current one by like right-clicking/cancelaura etc. and then proc the other one. If this is true then it will screw up for those who use addon/macro to get a solar eclipse running right after a lunar eclipse by cancelling current lunar as the last starfire is hitting

i might have read it wrong but only way i understood it atleast

I'm curious why they are completely fine with mages abusing this "double stacking" benefit. They do it with shatter all the time. Even though the frostbolt they launch SHOULD break the frost nova, if you instantly follow it with an ice lance, it too gains the shatter benefit.

[blahism]

wow.. this is gonna hurt

[Degrador]

wow.. this is gonna hurt

It's a fair enough change. You shouldn't require an addon to maximise your DPS.

[Spurlij]

Balance for balance! =D

[blahism]

It's a fair enough change. You shouldn't require an addon to maximise your DPS.

hahaha, yeah.. lets remove all addons that track everything from buffs to cooldowns to swing timers.. nothing that helps your dps should be required.

/sigh

[Degrador]

hahaha, yeah.. lets remove all addons that track everything from buffs to cooldowns to swing timers.. nothing that helps your dps should be required.

There's a difference between addons that make your job easier vs addons that do things you can't do without them.

Get a good balance druid to sit there casting on a training dummy with the default UI and they should be able to do just as well as someone who uses addons, with the exception of WiseEclipse. This is why they're making this change.

Edit: Updated to include 'with the default UI'. Wasn't very clear...

/sigh

/sigh yourself

[Saranthas]

I feel for boomkins. Their dmg has seemed pretty low even with mostly i245 gear. Or very unpredictable since it seemed to depend on crits for almost any decent dps-output. This nerf seemed unnecessary.

[superstargoddess]

I feel for boomkins. Their dmg has seemed pretty low even with mostly i245 gear. Or very unpredictable since it seemed to depend on crits for almost any decent dps-output. This nerf seemed unnecessary.

Troof!

But yeah, Boomkins are about to go the way of the Dodo, I know I am.

[blahism]

There's a difference between addons that make your job easier vs addons that do things you can't do without them.

Get a good balance druid to sit there casting on a training dummy and they should be able to do just as well as someone who uses addons, with the exception of WiseEclipse. This is why they're making this change.

/sigh yourself

So you make a general statement about addons that impact dps and then get specific when it supports your rather lackluster argument?

The issue i have with these 2 changes is that boomkin is my offspec and raid wise i don't get jack for gear for it so when it comes to "holding up my own weight" say in 25 man anub where we don't need me healing then this amounts to a huge dps nerf until i get gear priority which sort of sucks.

I shouldn't have to explain that to you either way, just find it odd people have excuses for the nerf when reality is other classes have very similar mechanics and rotations and haven't been nerfed

[Nanite]

Troof!

But yeah, Boomkins are about to go the way of the Dodo, I know I am.

I was once a die hard moonkin, i gave in and rerolled hunter a few weeks ago I dont think i will ever look back.

[superstargoddess]

From the way I am understanding it, it's going to be almost like it was before they changed eclipse. Where you had a cooldown before you could get another one and it was at 30 secs or something. Now it's just 15 secs. Yes? That's why I am so pissed off.

[Degrador]

So you make a general statement about addons that impact dps and then get specific when it supports your rather lackluster argument?

Care to give an example that actually requires an addon to improve DPS that Blizzard doesn't have a problem with (ie, they're looking into the gear swapping macros / addons for rogue poisons)?

The issue i have with these 2 changes is that boomkin is my offspec and raid wise i don't get jack for gear for it so when it comes to "holding up my own weight" say in 25 man anub where we don't need me healing then this amounts to a huge dps nerf until i get gear priority which sort of sucks.

So wait, your only reason for avoiding this change is that without WiseEclipse your DPS sucks because your gear sucks?

I shouldn't have to explain that to you either way, just find it odd people have excuses for the nerf when reality is other classes have very similar mechanics and rotations and haven't been nerfed

I was speaking from a theoretical standpoint anyway, but it's a position that Blizzard has commented on before. Addons shouldn't be necessary to perform your job to the best of your capabilities. Healing is a good example of this - currently you basically need addons to heal effectively, particularly in regards to buff / HoT / debuff tracking. GC has mentioned that they don't really like their default UI for this and want to improve it particularly for these areas, just that they haven't got a solution for it yet.

[udoavdtmchls]

I was thinking it'd also affect our ability to switch back to lunar eclipses during a blood lust. =[

[Aluana]

yay break us more!!!

/end sarcasm

[rabbimojo]

So you make a general statement about addons that impact dps and then get specific when it supports your rather lackluster argument?
...

Another way to look at it is he made a general statement about addons that impact dps and then go specific when you interpreted it in a way he didn't mean. It shouldn't be surprising when you take other peoples' arguments and specifically interpret them in the worst possible light in order to support -your- rather lackluster argument.

I'm curious why they are completely fine with mages abusing this "double stacking" benefit. They do it with shatter all the time. Even though the frostbolt they launch SHOULD break the frost nova, if you instantly follow it with an ice lance, it too gains the shatter benefit.

They could probably fix this right now, given that they seem to now have hooks to decide whether an effect on the boss takes effect at spell cast or at spell impact. I suspect they aren't interested in fixing it because frost is already mindless and isn't particularly viable in pve (and isn't overly viable in pvp). Blizzard, unlike the playerbase, does not have quite the same obsession with outwardly "fair" treatment of effects/bugs in each spec.

To be honest, though, players don't want "fair" as much as they want to use the continued existence of a similar bug to justify why their own nerf should be reverted.

[Aluana]

^ fail... -10000000