Elitist Group, Blue posts, Comics

[Kharay1977]

Addons aren't stupid, people are.

Indeed.

[phai]

Let's just say that I've had fierce discussions with people about GS, with me being the antagonist and them being the protagonist. Their nr.1 argument usually was that I'd probably have sucky gear and that's why I'd be complaining. Hence, as an auto-defense system, I added a few stats. I'm not the epeen type that goes around bragging about his gear.

Now, I hope we can play nice again miss Phai(l)

I think you missed the part where we both count as antagonist. Check?
No reason to be offensive, I understand that some guys use that as an argument against some players. But on the other side I ask myself: Why do you even respond to it? Seems like that doesn't fit with your comment above ...

I'm not epeen type that goes around bragging about his gear

So WHY THE HELL do you respond? Really? If they use GS ingame as one of their addons you are safe in either way. So why?
You couldn't care less, since your gear isn't bad. But you still think you have to prove it.

Best thing is to ignore them. It's out of the question that GS is unnecessary.
It wasn't in the past and it will not be in the future. Atleast for me.

miss Phai(l)

[Soulcow]

This addons seems to be going in the direction an addon like gearscore SHOULD be to be usefull. But I still see points that are not taken into consideration yet.
- Overcapping of stats with a hardcap, like hit, exp, arp? A 400+ hit hunter could get all green in this addon.
- It only checks which tree your specced, not which talents. PVP talens should give big red warnings aswell, missing vital pve ones aswell. You can get away with having scattershot or not having GFTT as hunter.

[Jamdawg]

Since the original screenshot didn't tell you as well, here's an example of what wearing bad gear looks like. In this case, it's wearing Bear gear while Restoration specced: http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw35414.png

This is the problem right here. People don't even LOOK at what information is given to them. This person is most likely dual specced for tank and resto, obviously they were in their resto spec but still had their tank gear on.

[VanishO2]

I really hate players that use addons like GS (and achievements) to *see* the skill of a player. Not going over all the crap that it is (hello "I was dead the entire ToC25 run, but got the achievement!" "Hey, I have your 5k+ GS! In caster gear on my DK..."), except that most of the time, the raid leader (the guy forming the raid) asking for those GS+Achievements doesn't even meet his own criteria, it's just an undergeared clown trying to get carried.

But this one has the merit of just owning GS really hard (since I hate GS that much, watch it going down the toilet is awesome) and is way closer to what a raid leader should be looking at when trying to assemble a pug. Bad raid leaders that want to be carried will always find a way to be stupid (as long as they can find a way to "give numbers"), but the players who use GS because they saw others using and think it's the way will do better now.

Still don't measure player skill with his class/spec... only that he won't try to use the wrong gear to achieve a stupid score or don't know how to copy/paste someone else's enchant/gemming.

And how this addon is compared to GS regarding data SPAM? We banned GS from our guild (if a member wants to use it, ok, but if he shows up to raid with that thing on, he'll be invited to leave the raid after starting a raid with that more than a few times) because of the excess of data it throws up in the raid, leading to some DCs on people with not that good conections (that could handle the blizzard own spam on some fights, but also handling GS spam was a little bit too much and GS isn't necessary to raid).

@warrior changes... lame... just lame... now they just have an excelent excuse to nerf anything by just saying "it's not necessary for a raid". I don't think that they should balance 25man fights around having at least one shaman with hero/BL... so by their logic, they could change the spell anytime if someone complain about it for PVP.

They said that they want to do things to make classes diferent from each other for a role (like 4 tanks, each one with their own way to do their job) and decided that prot warriors should be the "very high mobile tank"... now, they're not... lol

The only problem with prot warriors was the fact that no class/spec should be allowed to not use PVP gear when PVPing. "But there is no pvp tank gear!" - and who said that there should be one? You're suposed to use resilience to do the "defense" job, the strengh is there for your slams and dps, huge crit, etc. Yes, they should change a few things to give some of your avoidance (dodge/parry/block) back while wearing a pvp gear, but in pvp you're there to be more offensive since there is no way to tank another player like you can tank a mob. Your abilities to save a partner are there (intervene, improved spell reflect, etc.) and they don't go away while using pvp gear.

Mages complaining about getting owned at melee range? Go figure... I see melee players complaining about prot warriors block/parry their attacks way too much... and they're always attacking with the warrior facing them... lol you know that pve rule about attacking from behind whenever is possible? Yes... it does apply when fighting prot warriors... lol

[Fizzlebeard]

This is the problem right here. People don't even LOOK at what information is given to them. This person is most likely dual specced for tank and resto, obviously they were in their resto spec but still had their tank gear on.

And if he doesn't get notified, you will have a severely gimped healer in your PuG, probably leading to a wipe. Tell the guy his gear is wrong, let him voice a response, THEN kick him if you don't like the answer.

People who see the addon's results and kick him right away conform to the statement "Addons aren't stupid, people are".

EDIT: As you can see in the SS, it is the addon authors character himself showing you what it looks like with wrong gear, not some random scrub.

[rockadin]

the addon's results and kick him right away conform to the statement "Addons aren't stupid, people are".

EDIT: As you can see in the SS, it is the addon authors character himself showing you what it looks like with wrong gear, not some random scrub.

is it?

[Vasz]

People, bring the PLAYER... not the GEAR. For once, can we stop with this focus on gear scores and such? Before long, fresh 80s will be unable to join for anything. Is that seriously how we want the WoW community to develop?

Anyone answering 'Yes' needs to have their head examined.

this is just what i was thinking as well. I have just started lvling my prot pally again, after lvling and gearing 4 other lvl 80's. After tanking every encounter todate with my feral druid, i thought it was time to put some better gear on my pally.

My pally has about 31K health, with a mix of naxx 10/25 drops, and badge gear.

Last night i did HC nexus and got booted because my gear wasnt good enough. What did they expect, ive not played him in six moths.

Is this addon just an easyer way for people to laugh at my gear?

So much for my lvl 78 Prot Warrior i wanted to gear up as well.

IMHO this is a BAD addon.

[Maerad]

Ok, first of all - READ THE DAMN DESCRIPTION OF THE ADDON ... so many failanswers already...

As example, the addon DEACTIVATES all kind of MSG during a fight or raid. No lag here...

And please guys, try ONCE to get a good PUG together. I do that almost every week, for ToGC etc. pp. - I need 25 ppl there, how the fuck am I supposed to rate someone without knowing them? I don't know how much skill someone has, the only thing to prevent some bad players ruining the raid and fun for the other 20 ppl is to judge them by some kind of system. Until before I was using Gearscore, to get a hint how well their gear is, next would be the MANUAL check of enchantments, gems, talents etc.

This is the ONLY hint I have to jugde if the player is ready for the instance/raid or not. Point.

And _NO_ skill dosn't erase the need for a specific gearlevel for some instances. For ICC 25 (as example) you need around 140000 raiddps for festergut to beat the enragetimer (would be around 7500 dps/member with the tanks spamming around 3k DPS). There are some enemies you can't defeat with a min. of DPS or heal or tanking gear. I made around 6k DPS at kora 25 last time with a crap ~220 EQ and almost none enchants / blue gems. It was nice, but at any boss with some movement my DPS would be way too low.

So you have to meet the specific EQ requirements of a raid/ini AND bring some skill. Well, I can't check your skill (ok, maybe ToGC HC 10/25 clear ... but those ppl won't pug) but I can check your gear, enchants, sockets, talents, stats etc.

I don't have a problem with bringing some guys to a raid they don't know. But then they have to meet the min. EQ lvl for the raid, got everything enchantet, own bufffood, own flasks etc.

They have to be willing to do the best they can.

[onaqui]

"The problem with the PvP side of Warbringer is that when you consider prot warrior versus mage (just as an example), there was nothing a mage could do to a well versed warrior. The warrior carries a lot of stuns, silences, and then any attempt to root him is broken by multiple abilities. So then the warrior's teammate (like a hunter) is just doing tons of damage while the target has no defenses."

So now this is an issue? But not when say a rogue and a mage can stunlock a target AND keeping his partners out of the game for like 10s while the mage freecasts?

[Lucifra]

I hope that elitistgroup catches on, it tells a lot more about players than achivements or gearscore.

I'll defenitly be using it.

[Dura]

If anybody had actually read into the meaning of GC's post, the problem with Warbringer isn't that it makes the caster vulnerable to JUST the Warrior.

To my knowledge Blizz has never balanced PvP based heavily upon 1v1 situations, to the detriment of socially awkward players everywhere.

what do you mean with JUST? how does warbringer make a class vunerable to other then a warrior?
that we can stun after warbringer? welll the mage can still blink i cant stop him from doing that. i cant stop him from iceblocking either.

mages have so many escape skills. and because they arnt that effective anymore we have to bite the dust. like we always do.

[Kharay1977]

Last night i did HC nexus and got booted because my gear wasnt good enough.

I've been out of the game for over half a year by now... and, if THAT is the current state of the WoW community, I'm definately not returning during WOTLK. Seriously, my DK Tank is smaller than your tank and I was known to be a very able tank... and a very fast one. Something people used to praise me for. Pushing 5 man parties to their absolute breaking point.

Again, people... bring the player, not the gear. Some of us, for whatever reason, did NOT do Ulduar, TotGC and other things. But, hey, Heroics are the place to gear up for raids... NOT the place you go AFTER getting 25 man Heroic gear!

/facepalm@WoW community

[F-Minus]

People need to realize that you can't judge skill of a person you have never played with. It's different if you know the guy and if you do chances are he's on the same level of content as you are our you probably wouldn't take him anyway, so there's no need for such addons there. But if you do random pugs you get a lot of players, you didn't even know existed in the first place - so tell me how should I judge his skill and abilities? I can't thus there's the thing where all those gear scoring addons come handy.

And frankly if we go by gear only, if a player has the latest and greatest gear, it means he's a good player, not always but pretty much most of the time - simply put, he probably wouldn't have that gear if he sucked that much. Sure there can be leechers who were dead on a boss and got the achivement but thats really pushing it now. Now everyone with good gear is a leecher and doesn't know how to play - and that the excuse most of the time from players who don't get into pug raids.

Personally, when making a pug for the lesser instances (like VoA, Ulduar), I don't even check for gear or achievements, cause I have my core group of people who can do it even if the rest of the raid fails, so really, I don't bother even if they die all the time, I still let them in and distribute gear to them if they so desire. But for harder instances like ToC10HC, ToC25/HC, I damn right check for gear, cause I don't want to carry someone in Heroic or Naxx gear through all that, simple as that - I want the pug to be successful. And as said above, maybe it has happened twice that I had to replace someone from those raids, cause they were AFKing, but rest of the time, if the gear is good, the player also performs good.

And I'm not saying it's not possible to do the raids with undergeared people, it certainly is, but I don't have the patience nor the will to do that, I want my runs to be smooth as butter.

And then there's the way of faking achivements and gearscore that some people retort to, when they try to get into a pug. And while they think they have a right to do so, if this happens in my pugs, they wont ever get into a pug on the same server again, since the news spreads quite fast.

[rockadin]

Ok, first of all - READ THE DAMN DESCRIPTION OF THE ADDON ... so many failanswers already...

As example, the addon DEACTIVATES all kind of MSG during a fight or raid. No lag here...

And please guys, try ONCE to get a good PUG together. I do that almost every week, for ToGC etc. pp. - I need 25 ppl there, how the fuck am I supposed to rate someone without knowing them? I don't know how much skill someone has, the only thing

So you have to meet the specific EQ requirements of a raid/ini AND bring some skill. Well, I can't check your skill (ok, maybe ToGC HC 10/25 clear ... but those ppl won't pug) but I can check your gear, enchants, sockets, talents, stats etc.

Contradiction? We lived years without such add-ons. We still could do without them, especially when people are using them in the wrong way, like achievements.

Can't wait for an addon which, as soon as invited to a raid, slams an IQ test in your face. If you fail the test you are instakicked out of the raid. Now that would be awesome.

[F-Minus]

Contradiction? We lived years without such add-ons. We still could do without them, especially when people are using them in the wrong way, like achievements.

Can't wait for an addon which, as soon as invited to a raid, slams an IQ test in your face. If you fail the test you are instakicked out of the raid. Now that would be awesome.

You lived years without such addons, cause there was virtually no pug going on. TBC introduced raid pugging and it was mostly Karazhan, Gruul and maybe some Mag. All basic entry level instances like Naxx 10 is now or even lower. People tried to pugg TK/SSC/BT and later SW but failed massively all the time.

Now it's different. Everyone pugs all the raid content there is and as much as I hate to say it, there needs to be some player rating going on.

[Fizzlebeard]

is it?

I was referring to the image in Jamdawgs quote, which I was quoting: http://s.wowinterface.com/preview/pvw35414.png

[shamania]

This is another shitty gearscore alike addon. Addons like this can only be good if they can track other characters of the same player.

For example my main has done allmost all the game has to offer. I create an alt, ding 80 and start doing heroics and simple raids. I get rejected because my gear is not fully epic or w/e the current "normal gear level" is. I HIGHLY doubt it can track other characters of the owner.

This addon is a little improvement if you look to the gearscore crap but still completely BS.

[Fizzlebeard]

Addons like this can only be good if they can track other characters of the same player.

I would LOVE if Blizzard implements some kind of checkbox so other people can inspect your alts/mains achievements (or even gear). But as long as that is not arround, I'll gladly use EG. It functions EXACTLY like me looking up someone on the armory, but quicker and more streamlined.

[Shadowed]

There are already plans to add support for mains/alts, specifically so people who play 10 different characters do not get screwed over in experience. It's just a tricky thing to implement because it's very easy to cheat.

It's 4 AM and I don't feel like posting a detailed list, suffice to say you will not be penalized for being a newly leveled 80 or somebody who took a 6 month break from the game. As long as you gem, enchant and make correct gear choices the addon will not red flag you. I'm the first one to admit that the detection is not perfect and it will sometimes flag items incorrectly (Although rarely), if it turns out it flags something wrong then send a ticket in at http://www.wowace.com/addons/elitistgroup/tickets/ and it'll be fixed quickly.

This addons seems to be going in the direction an addon like gearscore SHOULD be to be usefull. But I still see points that are not taken into consideration yet.
- Overcapping of stats with a hardcap, like hit, exp, arp? A 400+ hit hunter could get all green in this addon.
- It only checks which tree your specced, not which talents. PVP talens should give big red warnings aswell, missing vital pve ones aswell. You can get away with having scattershot or not having GFTT as hunter.

Hard caps are not likely going to happen, there is no good and efficient way to get specific stats without large libraries and a lot of ugly code.

This is the problem right here. People don't even LOOK at what information is given to them. This person is most likely dual specced for tank and resto, obviously they were in their resto spec but still had their tank gear on.

............................

That's an example that is very specifically setup to be wrong, it's my character.

Still don't measure player skill with his class/spec... only that he won't try to use the wrong gear to achieve a stupid score or don't know how to copy/paste someone else's enchant/gemming.

And how this addon is compared to GS regarding data SPAM? We banned GS from our guild (if a member wants to use it, ok, but if he shows up to raid with that thing on, he'll be invited to leave the raid after starting a raid with that more than a few times) because of the excess of data it throws up in the raid, leading to some DCs on people with not that good conections (that could handle the blizzard own spam on some fights, but also handling GS spam was a little bit too much and GS isn't necessary to raid).

Which is what it's supposed to do, it very specifically does not reduce people to a single number or correlate everything to skill. Because the addon can do nothing more than give you the odds of someone being good or bad.

Addon communication is very light, the only times it sends comms automatically is when someone first zones into a 5-man and asks in guild to see if anyone has notes on the people you are grouped with. It will also send comm if somebody requests your gear (or you send your gear to someone), but those are both user initiated actions.

For people who don't want any communications at all they can disable the entire comm system. It's specifically designed with not spamming the addon channels in mind.