Ensidia suspended for 72 Hours

[Bonewall]

Being in a world top 5 guild, you of all people should understand why they won't release the full logs for the fight.

Since I am not why is that, if I might ask?

[Arkaena]

So I just wanted to add my opinion here to combat all the crazyness here.

I read the mage's blog on the end progress in ICC for them on normal mode. Ekye or Ekyu or whatever. Sorry Mr France, I don't remember and don't wanna look again

Anyways, you can't say with any degree of certainty that they knew the bombs were causing this based on the information we have without assuming that you know more than what you know.

The mage noted in their blog that the raid saw the edges being in existence at a time when they normally weren't there. From their blog is also seems that they were still killing the val'kyr as the encounter demands (even with the extended edges) except for I believe at least one instance where they said something along the lines of, if it happens again just let them go. At this point I believe is where the infraction may have occurred. That is, when they decided to not put their full dps onto the val'kyr, taking advantage of not losing that extra dps/healing/tanking that the person being carried away was providing. In my opinion, this is a very thin line that may require some action.

What is Blizzard to do? Well, looking at history, you've got the yogg +0 which seems very different. I mean the mobs were evading which was obviously created to stop abuse. This is probably why mobs in ICC teleport you to them when they can't reach you. I personally don't believe stunning the adds in TotGC25 Anub'arak is an exploit at all since you could technically do nearly the same thing for the last boss in Oculus except it's not as important. Let's see, there's also knocking off the blood beasts during saurfang and then how many of you used levitate during hardmode northrend beasts ever to avoid the fire on the grounds? I know many people used these last two and the only reason why they didn't receive a ban is because Deathbringer Saurfang and Northrend beasts are not that important. Not nearly as important as The Lich King, the boss that essentially starts the competition for the hard mode encounters.

In my opinion based on what I've seen from this even and from the past, something needed to be done to address the problem. I would have looked at the effectiveness of their efforts during that attempt and the previous attempts to judge whether or not the event should be reset after a hotfix. If it was hit or miss if they would have downed him that attempt, the event should definitly be reset but I don't believe there should have been a ban. If they somehow knew that these bombs were causing this bug and intentionally use them in an attempt to recreate the edges (which is not evident based on our knowledge) then they 72 hr band is deserved. By no means should anybody receive a permanent ban for even using a small bug during a new and untested encounter.

And to Ensidia people, I support your decision to keep pushing (once again, assuming that what we know is what happened) as it's probably what I would have done as well. I don't feel that we as players of a game should be obligated to report a bug out of fear of a ban or retaliation from Blizzard should they overcome an obstacle with the help of this bug. The ledges were there, they didn't intentially "spawn" them, I figure at the time it seems like it is fair game/territory.

[koimagheul]

yes because blizz employees go arond glitching encounters for world firsts.

engineers using sarobombs (especially rogues) is a common thing in high end guilds.
a decent test of the fight would have pointed out that "bug" and it would have been fixed. same thing if the fight had been on ptr.
now can you still say blizzard is free of guilt on this ?

That kind of thinking would let Bernard Madoff go free to scam more people. Or Timothy McVeigh to blow up more buildings as he did in Oklahoma City.

your way of thinking would let dictators rule all over the world.
you see, i can make narrowminded messed up offtopic references too 8)

errors can happen and glitches can slip through... but a "glitch" happening in a public release because of a studied and commonly applied behavior is a programming malpractice, people get fired all around the world for less than this.
ensidia knew something was wrong, yet they kept on playing. actions had to be taken i don't deny that fact.
people making reference to karatechop's case were right somehow, what happened back then was very similar. something wrong happened, the player kept on, actions were taken. yet again the wrong thing happened because of a malpractice on blizzard's side.

blizzard is just as guilty on this as ensdia's players were. no one is innocent on this. i just hope the responsible on blizzard's side got his equal share in all of this.
this would be balance. this would be parity. this would be justice.

[Kaneiac]

You're wrong, not if they exploited UNINTENDED. Which is the case here, if we have to believe Ensidia.

They intended it.

They knew the fight was bugged and it was easier than it was supposed to be, they still killed it, and then never told anyone UNTIL Blizz said it was.

[SirRavin]

You mean the post they made AFTER Ensidia got their kill:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/2274...ite-bombs.html

GG you are failing sir get your facts straight

Blizzard is going to monitor a bran new boss like they always do

But I guess reporting it after you used it, then downed the boss. Makes it okay?

Lol. Ma'am. im sorry i took your kids lolipop. I ate it already, so go get a new one.

:P

You got disproved on everything, and even helped my debate. Thank you

And it says "Continuing." If I am not mistaken, meaning they just didn't start.

[Bergg]

Being in a world top 5 guild, you of all people should understand why they won't release the full logs for the fight.

Of course I understand. They intentionally exploited.

[Camelroed]

qq

[dino]

Such a disgusting guild. They will do anything to be no. 1 and keep their precious sponsors. That includes sucking off certain Blizzard staff to get inside info. This isn't the first time they have cheated. Thats a fact, fangirls. Stop sucking Ensidia's ass and use your brains for once in your lives.

The saddest part of all this is that people get paid to play video games. It was bound to corrupt these people. They would have to work in McDonalds without it.

tell me more about your conspiracy theories, because clearly you have a point!

[anthell]

They have admitted to knowing it was bugged over and over. It is established they knew it was bugged. Stop.

as to reply to all the people who were saying why didn't they stop.. because the last boss of a raid has been buggy since vanilla ( at least on first few tries ) and noone but ensidia would probably ever seen the bug since its going to be hotfixed immediately. There are bugs that makes an encounter harder but they still downed it why didn't they get banned?
(exploit of game mechanics and make a boss harder, without you knowing about it) instead (they got banned just because this time, it made it easier, and again, from their claim its unintentional)

if they have to stop for it to be fixed whether for good or bad, they wouldn't be the Ensidia that we know, claiming world first. All they do was, "hmm its buggy, as usual" lets keep doing it and see if hotfix will come. but what actually happen was, "hmm, we downed it, no hotfix yet, lets wait till the official news tomorrow. *sleep* Hmm im banned?"

Maybe its their fault for downing bosses too quickly such that hotfix comes late. If the ban we because they downed it when the bug was still there, blame the DEV-TEAM for being slow.

[Thallidomaniac]

your way of thinking would let dictators rule all over the world.
you see, i can make narrowminded messed up offtopic references too

Well, I guess you haven't experienced tragedy in you life, have you not?

[petninja]

If I was ensidia now after I read all the US shit flamers that written, I would give every atom of my strenght to achieve world first Hardmode LK.

They're professional gamers. They do that already :P.

[TazZingo]

Alright who in this thread is an actual a World First Contender. Because i know for a fact that ensidia are not the only one who know and use exploits. Majority of the top 50 world guild on WoWProgress excluding those random one in the top 50 who shouldn't be there. Are all known to have had a hand on bugs and exploit at one point. So stop bashing Ensidia or just ban all the world first contender because eventually mmo front page is going to be about how all the TopTier guild got suspended and casuals in the post not being able to kill content because it didn't get fix or nerfed.

[hvidgaard]

I do not doubt Ensidia knew what was happening. I'm also fairly convinced they used this mechanic intentional. And since the mechanic was a glitch/bug/expliot they do deserved loot and achievement taken away. What I don't really agree on, is the 72h ban. Without any prior knowledge of the fight, how was it possible to know if it was, in fact, the intention that you had an engineer "rebuild" the platform. And that perhaps was one of the things that made the normal and heroic mode different. Given the way it was done, it was relatively easy to conclude that probably wasn't the case. But we've seen odd fight mechanics before, so it's a possibility non the less. Please do not start to compare it to 10man version. in a 25man version, you can expect an engineer to be present - not so much in the 10man.

I do believe they should've had their RaidID reinstated with as many tries left as if they've failed to kill Arthas in their "kill" (i.e. if they killed him with 11 attempts left, they should get an ID with 10 attempts left). This would put everyone on equal stand, and Ensidia just had to bite the bullet with their attempts wasted on the exploit.

[gobtol]

This is moving faster than the bacon of light thread.

[Rellekk]

I don't believe that for a second.

and if you believe that ive got some property I'd like to sell you.

Because PLAYERS (not computer programers) who are doing an UNTESTED encounter for the FIRST time can ooooh so easily figure out that 1 spell out of everything going on with 25 people is causing that glitch..

Riiighhhht. Nice of you to think so highly of them being genius's and physic to know things like this tho

[Elica]

Another bad decision by Blizzard. It would be nice if there was a real alternative when it comes to other MMORPGs.

[Deleted]

Anyway start flaming us because Paragon just killed it with their main raid with 20 attempts left. It's time for something new. May I suggest "lol you exploit _and_ you suck??? paragon 1shotted and you wiped 5 times WHILE exploiting lol????" or something along those lines.

Going to bed, so don't flame me for being arrogant because I dont reply to your posts

[UraRenge]

blizzard is just as guilty on this as ensdia's players were. no one is innocent on this. i just hope the responsible on blizzard's side got his equal share in all of this.
this would be balance. this would be parity. this would be justice.

except they don't have to. Read rule 8 of the TOS. Blizz doesn't even need a reason to ban you if they want.

Remember kids, mocking Blizzard's backhand leads to bans, bans lead to QQ, QQ leads to nerd rage, and nerd rage leads to lols.

[rhorle]

You're wrong, not if they exploited UNINTENDED. Which is the case here, if we have to believe Ensidia.

But they didn't do it unintended. Several members have posted they knew something was buggy. They knew they didn't have to dps the vaylkirs in 25-man because of the bug. That is intentional.

[TheSecretArts]

It just comes down to this:

"Hey guys, we did use exploits to kill the Lich King. We may or may not have known what was causing the glitching but we continued to kill the boss regardless. We apologize to anyone who thinks that this victory was unfair and whatnot.
Love
-Ensidia"

However, you guys are being completely arrogant, claiming you did nothing wrong. I sympathize with you if you didn't know what was causing the bug, however you provide no evidence that you didn't (I didn't read the 250920943095209520 posts by stupid people and QQers) and so therefore we have to conclude that you did. Therefore the only thing you can do is either prove you didn't know what was causing the glitch or just apologize like a mature human being.

/thread.