I have noticed...

[Shakrie]

...that there is a bit of arguements about "rotation" in Ret Pallies to max DPS, where the judgement goes and what to do first blah blah blah.

Personally for the gear that I have in Ret, I use Strike -> Judge -> Storm -> Conc -> Strike -> Ex and this works with the judgement second, so that my Exoc has a better chance to pop as a instance and timing in the rotation has very little if any CD time on my spells, but I will caution you, that is because the Gear that I have makes this better.

Go to the Training dummies, change your gear around, and try differant rotations on your own, and look at the data.

Also remember, the gear score being higher, does not mean that it will increase your DPS, and DPS to Hit chance are differant, so if you adapt spells to work around hit rating to up your AP (less chance to hit harder) you might tweak your own rotations.

Just one humble opinion, and I hope it helps!

-Doc

[Aedh]

ret paladin rotation

Hit the buttons as they light up.

that is all.

[Priesten]

ret paladin rotation

Hit the buttons as they light up.

that is all.

Not really. Retribution is all about using priorities because most of the time you have many abilities up at the same. This is what the OP means by rotation.

As far as answering the question goes, yeah there are many different ideas on what rotation you should use because many set bonuses give benefits that make one ability more desireable than others.
Normally it would be something like crusader strike->judgement->divine storm->exo->concecration. It also depends whether or not the mob is undead because exorcism gets a 100% crit then. With the 2p t10 priority on divine storm goes up a notch. Either way I'm sure all these questions are answered in the retribution sticky so just look that one up.

[Aedh]

I dont think you know what that means by priority.

That means after you do your first set of attacks you are basically hitting the button that comes off cd.

IE

Hit the bright shiny buttons as they light up.

[Deleted]

You make ret DPS sound like "Whack-a-mole"

[Aedh]

You make ret DPS sound like "Whack-a-mole"

You mean it isn't?

[kassy]

he's right tho :P you have your priorities, but after you've used all abilites ~once, cds will make it so you'll mostly only have one ability to use anyhow. it's rare in a tank and spank fight to have to choose from more than 2 abilities, if even that as ret.

[Axios]

I dont think you know what that means by priority.

That means after you do your first set of attacks you are basically hitting the button that comes off cd.

IE

Hit the bright shiny buttons as they light up.

Priority system = use one spell before the other even if they are both available, so you prioritize that spell becuase X reason ( X= that spell hits harder,faster,costs less, tiggers a proc, etc)

If you hit buttons just as they light up then there is no brain in your "rotation" it's just you bashing your buttons and thinking you're a good player.

[Erutan]

You make ret DPS sound like "Whack-a-mole"

Because it is....

[Sworded]

...that there is a bit of arguements about "rotation" in Ret Pallies to max DPS, where the judgement goes and what to do first blah blah blah.

Personally for the gear that I have in Ret, I use Strike -> Judge -> Storm -> Conc -> Strike -> Ex and this works with the judgement second, so that my Exoc has a better chance to pop as a instance and timing in the rotation has very little if any CD time on my spells, but I will caution you, that is because the Gear that I have makes this better.

Go to the Training dummies, change your gear around, and try differant rotations on your own, and look at the data.

Also remember, the gear score being higher, does not mean that it will increase your DPS, and DPS to Hit chance are differant, so if you adapt spells to work around hit rating to up your AP (less chance to hit harder) you might tweak your own rotations.

Just one humble opinion, and I hope it helps!

-Doc

Troll?

[Priesten]

Again, no. With 5 instant abilites for dps, 6 if it's an undead enemy, 7 if they are below 20% health, you don't just "hit the bright shiny buttons as they light up". Crusader strike even has a 4 second cooldown. I repeat, most of the time you have many abilities that can be used at the same time and any paladin that isn't content doing just 80% of his potential max dps will want to know the best priority set for the abilities. Besides, the way you word your posts make me think you are a troll and/or have a grudge against retribution paladins.

Either way, these questions are still all answered in the retribution FAQ.

[Erutan]

See if i got it right...
2 macroed buttons.
One with 3 spells with 9 second CD each ( button"9" )
One with 2 spells with 6 sec CD (button"6")
9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9
Seems like buttonmashing to me
Does not quite differ from the Tanking rotations.....
Oh yeah... haste comes in... so an exorsism / hammer of the righteous now and then and your good to go back to the mashing....

Yes... again you can go 5% dps more if you do not use macro's... but with 20% more effort

[MrPistachio]

I had a macro about this somewhere to explain to the new pallies to the guild...

Ah yes, here it is.

Ret rotation= Judge, crusadurr strike, divine storm, consecrate, auto attack, auto attack, auto attack, judge, crusader strike, divine storm, consecrate, auto attack, auto attack, auto attack, judge, crusader strike, divine storm, consecrate, whine about being OOM, auto attack, auto attack, auto attack

Made vent laugh pretty hard.

[Aedh]

See if i got it right...
2 macroed buttons.
One with 3 spells with 9 second CD each ( button"9" )
One with 2 spells with 6 sec CD (button"6")
9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9-6-9
Seems like buttonmashing to me
Does not quite differ from the Tanking rotations.....
Oh yeah... haste comes in... so an exorsism / hammer of the righteous now and then and your good to go back to the mashing....

Yes... again you can go 5% dps more if you do not use macro's... but with 20% more effort

Do you even know the CDs on ret abilities?

[Xiphias]

I haven't seen much in the way of arguments when it comes to the priorities for FCFS rotations.

It is dependent on gear. Why? Because if you have 2pc T9, crit becomes much better due to double-dipping (you crit to create Righteous Vengeance, and then that can crit too) so causing crits becomes important. Because Judgments have a higher chance to crit, they do better DPS than Crusader Strike with the bonus.

Keep in mind that you're gunning for DPS, not burst damage, so you don't pick the ability that does the most damage each cooldown - this is because, for example, if you wait 3 seconds longer to use Crusader Strike after it comes off of cooldown, then you're wasting about 75% of its DPS compared to using it right away, whereas if you wait 3 seconds longer to use Exorcism, you're wasting very little of its DPS (it has a longer cooldown, and doesn't even hit that hard in the first place - plus it can miss at the melee hit cap!). However, waiting 1.5 seconds more for a Crusader Strike when you can Judge right now - that's worth it, because although you do lose a nice little chunk of Crusader Strike DPS, you'd lose more Judgement DPS if you waited for that ability, instead. Plus, Judgments trigger a nice debuff and give us mana back plus Replenishment.


This whole topic seems a bit pointless, personally. The information on rotations / FCFS priorities are all found in other threads around here or at elitistjerks.com, so I'm not really sure what the OP is looking for...

I also have no idea what he's talking about at the end:

Also remember, the gear score being higher, does not mean that it will increase your DPS, and DPS to Hit chance are differant, so if you adapt spells to work around hit rating to up your AP (less chance to hit harder) you might tweak your own rotations.

Yes, a higher gear score doesn't mean you'll have higher DPS (I often do more DPS than people with better gear score, whether because they're awful at actually playing, or awful at choosing gear). I don't really see the point in mentioning it, though... trying to warn people against picking upgrades just because they have a higher item level?

I'm not sure what you mean by "DPS to Hit chance" either...
The only spell a Ret Paladin will be casting is Exorcism (and, I suppose, possibly Holy Wrath, against the right foes?), and it has a hefty cooldown. Thus, gearing for +Hit in order to hit more often with Exorcism would be foolish, since you'd be sacrificing useful stats to go beyond the melee hit cap. Once you hit the melee hit cap, stop - any more is almost completely wasted since it's only going to help Exorcism, which you aren't using enough to warrant the sacrifice.

You should always try to get to the hit cap; if you can miss, it's a rather huge detriment to your DPS. You should never prioritize Attack Power over Hit if you're under the hit cap, unless you're just a teeny-tiny smidge under, and it's a big Attack Power boost... as far as I'm aware. You can probably spreadsheet it, at that point, to see what's worth it.

Keep in mind that the training dummy is only an approximation, since you aren't receiving a "usual" set of buffs, even if you're only considering doing 5-man instances. Plus, since it's a single target, it's not a very good gauge for AoE types of fights, such as most trash. What works at the dummy may not work best in a raid or in instances - so playing with rotations there isn't really going to help. Since you can't exactly get fair results while playing around in groups (the groups might change, or all sorts of other things might happen between your tests) your best bet is to theorize the best rotation and stick with that --- which is exactly what has already been done in the other helpful threads here and at places like elitistjerks.



Also, Erutan: You're thinking of the Tanking rotation... and it's not buttonmashing, since you have to weave in your other abilities as well, like Avenger's Shield and defensive cooldowns like Divine Protection... Compare it on the other hand to Druid Tanks, who have a tendency to just spam Swipe... Tanking a tank-and-spank SHOULD be just buttonmashing, since tanks also have to be raid aware and manage defensive cooldowns, and be ready to taunt and so on - no need to make things toooo hard for them!

[FiveDkp]

Divine Storm has 40% chance of coming off cd
Consecrate's cd is 8 secs
Crusader Strike's cs is 4 seconds
Divine Storm is 12 seconds.
Exorcism is a long time.
HoWrath is 5 seconds
Judgment is 8 seconds.

Crusader Strike does the most dps
Thats why there is a FCFS system

[Xiphias]

Divine Storm has 40% chance of coming off cd
Consecrate's cd is 8 secs
Crusader Strike's cs is 4 seconds
Divine Storm is 12 seconds.
Exorcism is a long time.
HoWrath is 5 seconds
Judgment is 8 seconds.

Crusader Strike does the most dps
Thats why there is a FCFS system

Consecrate will be 10 seconds with the Glyph of Consecration.
Exorcism is a 15 second cooldown.
Divine Storm's cooldown is 10 seconds, not 12.
Hammer of Wrath's cooldown is 6 seconds, not 5.
Divine Storm's cooldown will only be reset if you have 2pc T10 bonus, keep in mind.

Try to make sure you're posting the right numbers - don't hesitate to check if you're in doubt.

In addition, Crusader Strike's DPS is only highest without considering set bonuses (and even then, when Hammer of Wrath is available, it's superior) since, as I mentioned in my earlier example, with 2pc T9, Judgment becomes a better option for FCFS due to its superior DPS over Crusader Strike.

[Soulbender]

Made me think, in a multi target situation (3+ mobs), do you get more damage from CS (and command procs), or DS?

In other words, what becomes the rotation on aoe trashpacks?

[Azharok]

I'm pretty sure in a 3+ pack, Divine storm is #1 since the SoC can proc off of it, and besides even if you had a choice DS is 4 targets + 4 procs, and CS is 1 target + 1 proc + 2 target proc from SoC.

Single target dps, CS

Multi target dps, DS

And I have no maths to back this up, this is how I do it, feel free to tell me I am wrong if it turns out I am.

[Erutan]

Do you even know the CDs on ret abilities?

I do when i'm behind my wow-box... and not @ work.... ^^
anyways.....
The macro-1 , macro-2, rince&repeat still goes.....