- - RET - - AVENGING WRATH

[Sedo]

[size=10pt]AVENGING WRATH... THE BEST TIME TO USE IT?[/size]


Alright, so I've been looking through forums and what not, and it seems to me like not many people are mentioning Avenging Wrath, you know, those pretty wings?

My question is, when is the best time to use it?

See, currently I am using Darkmoon Card: Greatness. Which usually proc with one of my first melees, along with Whispering Fanged Skull. These along with my Ashen Verdict Ring usually pop pretty early, so I usually pop Avenging Wrath first thing right before I first attack a boss. However, Seal of Corruption isn't at 5 stacks, and Libram of Three Truths, hasn't stacked up to 5 increasing strength a decent amount. Should I wait til Seal of Corruption stacks along with Libram of Three Truths before popping AW? It looks like it lowers dps just from looking at meters when experimenting.

Another question is, what about when using Herkumi War Token. That also stacks. Once I get it, first of all, do I drop Greatness or the Skull, and when do I use AW then, as the Token stacks over time also.

I've also heard a trick where you can reset your Internal cooldowns of Greatness and the Skull by taking them off shortly before a boss pull. Since they are on cooldown when you equip them, 30 seconds later they come off cooldown, and by then you should have 5 stacks of Corruption along with the Libram to stack.

Hopefully you get what I'm saying and hopefully some of you guys can help me out.

Link to my armory page if you want to refer to my gear and trinkets that I mentioned: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...hadgar&cn=Sedo

[Verth]

I'm pretty sure that AW is to be used just when you get your 5th stack on SoC. That's what logic tells me, i havent realy done any research.

[Taisen]

Judging a boss plus hitting it with a melee attack should get your berserking and trinkets and maybe your ring buff up then you pop AW. I prefer this because popping AW at the beginning usually gets me 3 AW's in a 5minute fight. Or you can use the trinket reset you mentioned and wait for your trinkets/libram/ring/berserking to pop up again after 45 secs. And uhm.. do yourself a favor and replace your str ashen verdict ring with the agility one. You're crit is really low and that will help it alot. Also regem your bracers with Str/crit. Also replace your chest .

[Karmian]

For long fights (min 3 minutes): Use Avenging Wrath immediately after you get your 5 stacks from the Seal of Vengeance (Corruption). It is good because you sustain your damage and after 2 minutes you will have its cd over just 2-5 seconds before your trinkets proc. It is also recommended to get an ICD tracker for this.

Short fights (less 1-2 minutes): Use it before your second proc of the trinkets.

Very short fights (Less than 1 minute): Use it in the beginning.

[Cowt]

For boss fights, I pop mine at 5 stacks of Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.

Makes the most sense to me.

[cyborg99]

5 stacks of SoV/Cor, full stop.
Also tell your guild's Shamen to not use Heroism until you have 5 stacks.
Not only for yourself, but it helps establish Threat and other class/spec's setup easier

[Dargin]

This has been discussed time and time again, with the amount of proc damage sources we have right now it is worth it to just use it off the bat with all of those first procs. The synergy 20% damage has with ring proc, death's choice, WFS, greatness, berserking, and the T9 libram is worth it to use without a 5 stack. On the other hand however, once you upgrade your libram (most people have by now), and get herkumi and/or tiny abom in a jar, go back to using it on your fourth or fifth stack (when I am getting close to maxing my stacks I pop wings just before I know I will be GCD locked for a while, but determining that means calculating 5 different cooldowns right away, so you could just pop it just after 5 stacks is reached). So you will be safe using it either way at your gear level, but if the length of the fight determines your second wings might not be up/finish its duration, just wings from the start to make sure you get another one. I know with my guilds dps right now there are a few fights lasting 2:20 or 4:20, and in that case I just pop wings off the bat to ensure full use of the later ones on CD.

And to the post above me, that is horrible advice to give your shaman. Bloodlust right from the start ensures maximum synergy with procs. One thing you and many other rets I've come across in pugs is that lust causes you to stack corruption faster, meaning you get the exact same amount of 5 stack swings in a fight if you pop it on your first attack or on your fifth stack, without losing proc synergy, so please stop spreading that terrible tip.

[Isolyphic]

Retribution
0.2 seconds before your next next melee swing that applies the 5th stack of SoV/Cor
Blow your Trinkets and AW every 2 minutes.

Protection
Blow your "two minute CD Trinket" and Avenging Wrath on Pull.

Holy
Avenging Wrath as a Cooldown for intense healing (Undispellable boss soft Enrage)

[cyborg99]

This has been discussed time and time again, with the amount of proc damage sources we have right now it is worth it to just use it off the bat with all of those first procs. The synergy 20% damage has with ring proc, death's choice, WFS, greatness, berserking, and the T9 libram is worth it to use without a 5 stack. On the other hand however, once you upgrade your libram (most people have by now), and get herkumi and/or tiny abom in a jar, go back to using it on your fourth or fifth stack (when I am getting close to maxing my stacks I pop wings just before I know I will be GCD locked for a while, but determining that means calculating 5 different cooldowns right away, so you could just pop it just after 5 stacks is reached). So you will be safe using it either way at your gear level, but if the length of the fight determines your second wings might not be up/finish its duration, just wings from the start to make sure you get another one. I know with my guilds dps right now there are a few fights lasting 2:20 or 4:20, and in that case I just pop wings off the bat to ensure full use of the later ones on CD.

And to the post above me, that is horrible advice to give your shaman. Bloodlust right from the start ensures maximum synergy with procs. One thing you and many other rets I've come across in pugs is that lust causes you to stack corruption faster, meaning you get the exact same amount of 5 stack swings in a fight if you pop it on your first attack or on your fifth stack, without losing proc synergy, so please stop spreading that terrible tip.

Which would you rather have.
Stacking the stack faster, so you waste a bit of Heroism with sub-5 SoV? Or wait 12~ seconds for the Herolust and get more melee swings with a full stack?
Exactly.

[Ronark]

A good way to time your trinkets with AW is too use to simple equip/re-equip macro, such as:

/equip 13 Darkmoon Card: Greatness
/equip 14 Death's Choice
/equip 13 Death's Choice
/equip 14 Darkmoon Card: Greatness

What this does is put a 45 second ICD between the procs on the trinkets- If you time this macro about 30 seconds before the pull, you'll have the ICD up right when you get your 5 Corruption stacks on the mob.

[Daffyduck]

Make sure you activate wings right before you judge so you get three judgements whilst wings are active.

[Adamson]

pop wings when wings are down.

imo

[Ascal]

pop wings when wings are down.

imo

u be trollin' our forumz?

[Horn]

He be maximizing uptimez bruh.

[Ascal]

Dat be fine than *brofist* I'm out.


Anyway, i opened a similar topic a while ago. Maybe this will help you somehow.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-pa...o-sprout-wings

[Riek]

I use wings at the beginnig when my libram/trinkets are all procced off (even before SoV stacks to 5).

Doing this gives me another opportunity to pop wings during the fight (usually the heroism timing) and this is where I also eat my speedp otion

[Seraphe]

A good way to time your trinkets with AW is too use to simple equip/re-equip macro, such as:

/equip 13 Darkmoon Card: Greatness
/equip 14 Death's Choice
/equip 13 Death's Choice
/equip 14 Darkmoon Card: Greatness

What this does is put a 45 second ICD between the procs on the trinkets- If you time this macro about 30 seconds before the pull, you'll have the ICD up right when you get your 5 Corruption stacks on the mob.

/equipslot

[Ronark]

/equipslot

You mean you dont have the trinket called "13 Darkmoon Card: Greatness"? Lol.

[shakkenbake]

To the OP: for your trinkets, I would definently pop it right off the bat, but it still depends on the fight. Your DMC:G, WFS, beserking and ring are probably all going to proc within the first 0-4 seconds of the fight, and so they will last untill ~20 seconds into the fight. Were talking 330 str (with kings) + (1100 ap + 400 ap + 480 ap)x1.1 with TSA. But you still have to account for the fight that your doing.

Lets take for example festergut. Your going to have some sort of clue on how your guild is going to do with regards to the enrage timer. If its going to be really tight, you can just assume its going to be a five minute fight. so that means your going to get 3 max AW off during the fight. As long as you pop Wings within the first 40 seconds (dont want to waste any remaining time with wings popped on a dead boss) your using your cooldowns as much as possible. Now you just have to worry about when you pop them with regards to your other buffs.

DMC:G, WFS, DV/DC and similiar trinkets that have a high on hit chance to proc are almost a sure bet to proc right off cd, especially for a ret paladin and all the source of damage we have. So you can assume at the very beginning and every 45 seconds there after they're going to proc.

Start Fight
0:00 - 0:15 <--- Vengeance/Libram stacks not in full effect during this time
0:45 - 1:00
1:30 - 1:45
2:15 - 2:30
3:00 - 3:15
3:45 - 4:00
4:30 - 4:45
End Fight

Now if you wait untill 40 seconds into the fight (the longest you can wait to get 3 full AW during a five minute fight), you can line it up to be in effect during the full duration of the second round of trinket buffs. This means you have to pop your wings again at 2:40-3:00 mins though and you miss a full uptime of trinket procs. Then at 4:40-5:00 when your third AW is up you only get five seconds of trinket procs, for a grand total of 20 seconds of simultaneous AV and trinket procs

If you pop wings off the bat (atleast when your first trinket procs) you get a full stacked duration. You can wait again 15 seconds after AW comes off cd to pop it again when your trinkets are coming off cd at 2:15 to get another full duration, and then pop it again during your last trinket procs for another full duration. This brings the grand total for this strat to 45 seconds, over twice as much simultaneous AW/trinket uptime.

Having trinkets and AW (as well as hero and speed pot if you get really lucky) up at the same time is ALWAYS a dps increase over just chaining them, as long as you can keep your rotation tight and steady damage to your target.

To anyone who said "wait till your vengeance gets to 5 stacks": this takes about 12 seconds to do, and by this time your trinket durations only have 3 seconds left on them. This would seem to always be a dps loss. It might suck that we have some rough ramp up time with our seal/libram, but it is what it is. Just pop your wings with trinkets.

And reseting the ICD on your trinkets can also be a dps loss. With 33% average uptimes, its normally a bad idea to try and delay the onset of those unless you can map out the length of the fight quite accurately. Also, theres lots of room for error as pulls dont always happen when you expect them to (Wait, I need kings!).

[Naposim1337]

Retribution
0.2 seconds before your next next melee swing that applies the 5th stack of SoV/Cor
Blow your Trinkets and AW every 2 minutes.

Protection
Blow your "two minute CD Trinket" and Avenging Wrath on Pull.

Holy
Avenging Wrath as a Cooldown for intense healing (Undispellable boss soft Enrage)

BOLD part made me laugh