Mind Spike - Someone please explain why this spell is useful?

[Direshadow]

So after a few days of thinking about this spell, and seeing how it might apply to an in game situation, i've changed my opinion on the spell quite drasticly, and now i'm looking forward to it.


High Damage in PVP - Considering that this spell has the same cast time as Mind Blast does (1.5sec), and that haste will even cut that down a bit, this will be an idea spell to use for burst when an enemy is locked down.

Add Fights and Trash - Yes, yes, we've all heard this before. Using this spell is going to be ideal for dealing with trash mobs or adds durring fights.

Playing off the Shadow Orbs mechanic: Consuming 3 orbs to make your next Mind Spike an instant cast? Consuming 2 orbs to cause your next Mind Spike spell to slow an enemy's speed by 50%? The possabilities for combining the two mechanics are interesting.

[Frmercury]

High Damage in PVP - Considering that this spell has the same cast time as Mind Blast does (1.5sec), and that haste will even cut that down a bit, this will be an idea spell to use for burst when an enemy is locked down.

Add Fights and Trash - Yes, yes, we've all heard this before. Using this spell is going to be ideal for dealing with trash mobs or adds durring fights.

Playing off the Shadow Orbs mechanic: Consuming 3 orbs to make your next Mind Spike an instant cast? Consuming 2 orbs to cause your next Mind Spike spell to slow an enemy's speed by 50%? The possabilities for combining the two mechanics are interesting.

PvP - Yeah, MSK will be great

PvE - Unless the damage model changes drastically from what it is currently, No. They suggest we'll use it primarily for burning adds down, when it's really not needed. As far as we're concerned the single target add model is either: VT (maybe SW:P) then move on or VT / SW:P / MF and our DPS made little difference anyhow. Will it make our add burning DPS better? Yes. Will having it in its current design make any real difference in PvE? Probably not. Unless they change MSK to our Primary nuke to truly bring us in line with other DPS specs, it won't see much (if any) use in PvE.

[Direshadow]

I can also see this spell being VERY effective against those pesky warlocks. When they either lock us out of Shadow, or get that Shadow Spell Immunity, this is going to be the spell to whip out and off them wtih.

[Abolishment]

Frost has a history of snaring opponents.

INC Glyph/Talent for a Shadow Priest Snare that doesn't root the Priest!

One can dream...

However, until we see the new glyphs and talents, we don't know why exactly Mind Spike will, if ever, be worth casting over Mind Flay (unless it's single-target trash that dies in under 24 seconds).

[Frmercury]

Well if they make MSK our primary nuke they shouldn't have a snare component. There should be some reason for us to use MF.

They should separate the snare and damage components of MF though, like it adds a debuff that snares and one that damages.

[Deleted]

In pvp: only useful when locked out of shadow. Flay is better in every other situation.

hmm... As far as I understand.. then it is Mind Spike > Mind Flay in most of the situtations in pvp.. You have a Rogue/war/DK and probably a feral/ret pala hitting you, you're clearly going to use this spell.. Why..? Because if this spell gets interrupted, not any of your schools will get locked out. If the one hitting you blows his/her interrupt cd, you now have the possibility to re-cast VT or cast mind blast...
Note: it will even be useful against other classes capable of interrupting...

[Arvi]

Unless they change MSK to our Primary nuke to truly bring us in line with other DPS specs, it won't see much (if any) use in PvE.

I don't know what game are you playing, but as of now, shadow priests are pretty much in line if not better on most fights with other DPS classes.

[Frmercury]

I don't know what game are you playing, but as of now, shadow priests are pretty much in line if not better on most fights with other DPS classes.

Bring us in line not as how much DPS we put out, but how we put out that damage.

Althor said it well:

This really needs to be our core filler spell, not Mind Flay. Unless they do some serious recoding of how channeled spells function, and they separate the damage from the snare then Mind Flay will remain a burden for all Shadow Priests that play with higher and variable latency. It's not fun knowing that your class suffers significantly more than other similar classes purely because of a technical issue and not due to other balancing concerns.

Basically every other DPS class can spam their next spell. We have to find a careful balance between clipping, delay, latency, and human error. Even under low latency and high skill you will still get more delay between spells than every other caster DPS.

[Arvi]

Bring us in line not as how much DPS we put out, but how we put out that damage.

That's true, but I mean, haven't most of us (at least I know I did) rolled a shadow priest exactly for those reason? More fun and complex rotation/priority system, which makes us casters without being 2 buttons like Mages?

[G l o w y r m]

Can someone explain where Mind Spike would be useful? I'm confused...

Blue post explained the niche Mind Spike is meant to fill...

Mind Spike

The idea behind Mind Spike is that you can't always settle into your normal, and high-ramp up rotation. It's also useful when you have to move or get school locked. (Source)

[...] We've seen some confusion about Mind Spike. The intention is that you can’t always get your full DoTs up on a target in time before it’s dead. Shadow priests sometimes aren’t sure what to do on, for example, a fight where a boss suddenly spawns an add that you’re supposed to quickly burn down and then go back to the main boss. Mind Spike is what you do to that add. As a rule of thumb, if it’s going to die in under 15 seconds, then go with Mind Spike. Otherwise get your DoTs up and go into your longer rotation.

[fabian]

Bring us in line not as how much DPS we put out, but how we put out that damage.

Althor said it well:
Basically every other DPS class can spam their next spell. We have to find a careful balance between clipping, delay, latency, and human error. Even under low latency and high skill you will still get more delay between spells than every other caster DPS.

If they feel like the mechanic behind channeled spells hinders dps too much, they could easily do it, but I really doubt it.

[Jehenna]

Adds during boss fights matter.

Also, it's an instant attack to press while moving, simarly to arcane barrage.

it's a 1.5 second cast bro. and i for one am glad priests finally have a nuke.

[Jehenna]

That's true, but I mean, haven't most of us (at least I know I did) rolled a shadow priest exactly for those reason? More fun and complex rotation/priority system, which makes us casters without being 2 buttons like ARCANE Mages?

fixed

[Raptor]

if your frostfire bolt interrupted, fire and frost schools are locked
if your shadowfrost spike interrupted, shadow and frost schools are locked

[fabian]

if your frostfire bolt interrupted, fire and frost schools are locked
if your shadowfrost spike interrupted, shadow and frost schools are locked

Read the blue posts, because they've said you're only going to be locked out of one of them.

[Worshaka]

I don't know what game are you playing, but as of now, shadow priests are pretty much in line if not better on most fights with other DPS classes.

Not really true... there are inherit technical issues with channelled spells that unfairly penalise lag/latency that put the vast majority of spriest behind where they could be if MF wasn't channelled. Considering I live in Australia I have to put up with a 400ms latency and that lag is added to every MF spell and can't be mitigated... well it can be mitigated a bit but you risk clipping your 3rd MF tick and it can't be mitigated anywhere near as effectively as a spell nuke.

So if in your experience spriests are holding their own or topping dps meters in your guild/social circle it's due to the fact they are better players, which isn't so hard to understand due to the fact that spriests are one of the more difficult classes to play.

While I agree with blizzard that homoginisation is a real concern I think they should either fix the technical problems sorrounding lag or concede that channeled spells need to be removed from PvE rotations to promote a level playing field for players.

[Frmercury]

That's true, but I mean, haven't most of us (at least I know I did) rolled a shadow priest exactly for those reason? More fun and complex rotation/priority system, which makes us casters without being 2 buttons like Mages?

I highly doubt with our 7 (8 with MSK) Damaging spells that are frequently used that we'll ever have to worry about an oversimplification of our DPS rotation. There would still be situational uses for MF if MSK was made a true nuke. Granted it would be primarily for the slow effect, or possibly for 'chiseling' DPS like Sind Ice Blocks or Razorscale achievement mobs.

Edit: Also to refresh SW:P

If they feel like the mechanic behind channeled spells hinders dps too much, they could easily do it, but I really doubt it.

Why have the though process of "If it ain't broke don't fix it"? Just because there are talent Shadow Priests putting out great numbers doesn't mean that we still aren't unfairly burdened by latency. I love a nuanced rotation, but perfectly recasting every spell after MF isn't nuanced; it's tedious.

Also why not give us a non-channeled nuke? They haven't even fixed separating the snare from the damage component of MF so that things like slow reduction racials and talents will cause us to lose DPS. That is broke.

[fabian]

I highly doubt with our 7 (8 with MSK) Damaging spells that are frequently used that we'll ever have to worry about an oversimplification of our DPS rotation. There would still be situational uses for MF if MSK was made a true nuke. Granted it would be primarily for the slow effect, or possibly for 'chiseling' DPS like Sind Ice Blocks or Razorscale achievement mobs.

Edit: Also to refresh SW:P

Why have the though process of "If it ain't broke don't fix it"? Just because there are talent Shadow Priests putting out great numbers doesn't mean that we still aren't unfairly burdened by latency. I love a nuanced rotation, but perfectly recasting every spell after MF isn't nuanced; it's tedious.

Also why not give us a non-channeled nuke? They haven't even fixed separating the snare from the damage component of MF so that things like slow reduction racials and talents will cause us to lose DPS. That is broke.

I'd rather have MSp as our filler, but Blizz will probably keep MF as it, since they often have the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude. It is just that unless if it happens in the talent change, I doubt we'll see it.

[BigGann]

People think about this carefully. Mind spike will be our filler at the start. 1.5 second cast vs. 3 second cast.

It does the same damage as a full duration flay with sw up.

So now, instead of using mb mf mf mb

It will be (at launch I mean) Mb MSp MSp MSp Flay 2 clip MB. (Probably 2 spikes and a s 2 clip, but I am saying no haste.)

Blizz says it's not like that, but any spell that is half the cast time and does the same damage as another spell will be used. MF will still refresh SW:P so we have to use it, but I see big big changes in how Spriests work coming.

[BigGann]

And by the way, if you can't top dps in every heroic you do as a 5500+ shadowpriest, you're doing it wrong.

Here's a hint: Mind Sear and VT are op.

Things die too fast. Read before you post.