Bloodlust rotation

[barefootdan]

as a boomkin, During bloodlust, should you only spam starfire? i heard using wrath furing bloodlust is a dps loss
thoughts?

i am above soft haste cap

[Slonah]

If you are soft capped Bloodlust does nothing for you during the Wrath part of your cycle. I haven't done the math but I'm pretty sure it's still better to continue with eclipsed Wrath during Bloodlust. So, you aren't "losing DPS" you just aren't gaining any during that part of your rotation. I believe the haste value you would need in order to continue just Starfire spamming during Bloodlust is pretty high, if not unobtainable, but again I haven't done the math to know what that point is.

[Deleted]

For the most part, you would just continue with your rotation during bloodlust. I tried to calculate the point sometime ago, where you could gain a benefit from sticking with Starfire, and I think (math is lost) i found that around 1,4 sec starfires, they come out even with an eclipsed wrath. But that is "even", so you would prefrably want to go below 1,4 second starfires before you actually see a difference. At 866 haste my starfires during bloodlust is around 1,37 or 1,38, so it may be viable. I still need to do the math to get an actual number. But unless you are swimming in haste (and are otherwise following your caps and gearing recommendations), you are probably better off just following eclipse

[Deleted]

See the problem is you would be using your potion of speed during LE so which is basically the duration of your pot so you cannot increase your SF after that which means you would need like Qieth said a serious amount of haste to be casting SF's that are worth it more then an eclipsed wrath , potentially it could be worth it but like someone else has said you don't lose DPS you just don't benefit from bloodlust / heroism during SE or wrath spammage. The best advice would be to test it out and see what figures you get from it

[Deleted]

Well, actually, when you have enough haste, you would actually gain damage during solar eclipse, if you ignore it and keep spamming starfire. But i think that even at 1,38 second starfires, there isn't a huge difference between that and solar wrath spam. We will probably need to get close to 1000 haste before we can really feel the difference.

[Deleted]

1k haste isn't far off the list now though with current gear available , we've always said at certain haste level's it'd be deffo worth it using SF etc.. Lol it'd be horrible to get to a point where we only cast 2/4 wraths every 30 seconds to proc lunar and just spam SF the rest of the time haha

[Tyralis]

Keep your rotation.

[Deleted]

1k haste isn't far off the list now though with current gear available , we've always said at certain haste level's it'd be deffo worth it using SF etc.. Lol it'd be horrible to get to a point where we only cast 2/4 wraths every 30 seconds to proc lunar and just spam SF the rest of the time haha

Oh nonono, you misunderstood. The only time when you can reach 1,4 sec or below on starfire is during bloodlust with a ton of haste - around 800 haste or so. You would need to get enough haste to cover the full effect from bloodlust if you were to just spam starfire. Thats not going to happen. This discussion is only relevant during bloodlust.

[Blizzyb]

Is it worth it to use Starfall during bloodlust or wait till the end? At what point during bloodlust would you find it's better to save starfall until bloodlust ends?

[Deleted]

Oh nonono, you misunderstood. The only time when you can reach 1,4 sec or below on starfire is during bloodlust with a ton of haste - around 800 haste or so. You would need to get enough haste to cover the full effect from bloodlust if you were to just spam starfire. Thats not going to happen. This discussion is only relevant during bloodlust.

yeh that was my point :P The second part was only a lol imagine :

[Deleted]

Is it worth it to use Starfall during bloodlust or wait till the end? At what point during bloodlust would you find it's better to save starfall until bloodlust ends?

Pop it a few seconds into the fight and everytime it's off CD so you can use it as much as possible during boss encounters.

[Deleted]

Blizzyb's question goes on whether or not he should wait with casting starfall during bloodlust. Short answer: No.

Long answer: On a single target fight, your starfall will hit with 10 stars. For me, thats probably around 50.000 damage. That means that in a single GCD, I can do 50.000 damage, compared to the 1,4 second 25k starfire crit I can do during bloodlust. So you obviously gain more from using your strong cooldown right off the bat, even if it is during bloodlust.

Note: Starfall does not benefit from bloodlust, but it will still do more DPET than anything else.

[Deleted]

Short answer would be yes ?

Heroism / bloodlust is 30 seconds long , 15 seconds of this we don't actually gain any benefit as we will be trying to proc an eclipse or in wrath eclipse ... LE doesn't last 30 seconds so you can cast Starfall during bloodlust / heroism ? If we're trying to proc it , especially SE eclipse then I'd say definitly do it as you'll have NG up for your SF's quicker casting time proc SE , then again I could be completely wrong.

Best point I would say without going into math is just after a LE trying to proc a SE, I don't normally wait tho :P

[Rawrior]

Short answer would be yes ?

Heroism / bloodlust is 30 seconds long , 15 seconds of this we don't actually gain any benefit as we will be trying to proc an eclipse or in wrath eclipse ... LE doesn't last 30 seconds so you can cast Starfall during bloodlust / heroism ? If we're trying to proc it , especially SE eclipse then I'd say definitly do it as you'll have NG up for your SF's quicker casting time proc SE , then again I could be completely wrong.

Best point I would say without going into math is just after a LE trying to proc a SE, I don't normally wait tho :P

40*

[Cocoe]

I remember I did the math a couple of weeks ago, using my own numbers and WrathCalc... With 1.4sek starfires and 0.7sek wrath, ca 800 haste, Wrath during eclipse is more than 100 dps more than starfire. However, with haste pot my starfires hit 1.2sek and SF>Wrath.

I guess you need 1000 haste before it's worth switching every time, apart from when you pop haste pot.

[Deleted]

Well, lets say you have 400 haste. You will get 15 seconds of hasted starfire, but this hasted starfire is not worth casting if you don't have lunar eclipse up as well. It would be too slow, and your solar wraths would do more damage.

The question is, really, at which point starfire (without eclipse) is fast enough to equal solar wraths.

Cocoe, you will never, ever have 0,7 second wraths. Well, alright, they will cast in 0,7 seconds, but you will still only cast one wrath per second.

[Deleted]

Alright, a different approach to trying to figure this out. Using the numbers I find in Wrath Cals, my wrath during eclipse and IS has an average DPET of 11.848. Starfire WITHOUT eclipse has a DPET of 9244. It would help if i could remember my normal starfire cast time (probably around 1,8 seconds for sure), but I don't, so we will have to make some pretty wide guesses.

During bloodlust, my starfires are 1,37 second. If we just allow ourselves to assume that wrath does 5000 damage and starfire does 10000 damage, that means that solar wrath does 7000 damage. I am about 7% crit over the soft crit cap, but for ease of numbers lets put a 65% chance to crit with wrath or starfire. Lets also just put crits at 2x the damage for now.

If I spam 1000 solar wraths, 65% of them would crit, giving me an average of 11550 damage per wrath.
If I spam 500 non eclipsed starfires for 10.000 damage, 65% of them would crit, giving me an average of 16500 damage per starfire.

Remember, the differences here is because wrath has +40% damage, starfire does not have the crit increase.

Now that we have the average damage from starfire and solar wrath, we can calculate the DPS. At 400 haste, the DPS of either is 11.550 and 8250 respectively. With 1,8 second starfires, their DPS is 9166. At 1,43 second starfires, their DPS is 11538,46, putting them on par with solar wraths.

So from this, to come out even, you need 1,43 second starfires during bloodlust for it to be worth to keep casting starfire during solar eclipse.

My starfires during bloodlust are 1,37 seconds, putting them at 12043 DPS, so a good 500 DPS more than solar wraths.

But but but, I can't completely confirm this math. This is very theoretical. Wrath might have a difference crit percentage, but there might also be latency that favors starfire over wrath. But from *this* model, and my stupid-math, if your starfires are below 1,4 seconds during bloodlust, it would be worth to cast starfire during solar eclipse.

[Deleted]

But but but, I can't completely confirm this math. This is very theoretical. Wrath might have a difference crit percentage, but there might also be latency that favors starfire over wrath. But from *this* model, and my stupid-math, if your starfires are below 1,4 seconds during bloodlust, it would be worth to cast starfire during solar eclipse.

That's just it really like being honest my wraths and starfires during eclipse are close enough rather then being 50 and 100 more like 70 and 100 I know it's just rough maths but I just know sum1 will think this is what you're supposed to do now and spread it like wild fire lol

[Blizzyb]

My starfires during bloodlust are 1,37 seconds, putting them at 12043 DPS, so a good 500 DPS more than solar wraths.

Is this with or without nature's grace? Since you're only critting roughly 65% of the time, you should only have this cast time 65% of the time, right?

[Poxy]

Is this with or without nature's grace? Since you're only critting roughly 65% of the time, you should only have this cast time 65% of the time, right?

I'm not good at math so can't tell you % chans but if you crit one starfire and get 3 sec natures grace, and with that procced you have 1.37sec cast time you get 3 starfires of with that cast time and you should crit 1 of them.