AVR getting removed next patch

[schippie]

The only difference between for example DBM or AVR is DBM is with voice warnings and AVR visual warnings.

[Vook]

Something like that man... "Step on these bricks and youre safe..." vs "Yo, across that patch of stones and hope for the best!"

This explains it very nicely. "Stand here and be safe" vs. "Move somewhere and hope you don't die".

[Gamerloin]

lets take 2 raid groups with zero experience, dont know any tactics and have limited addons
Group 1 has DBM
Group 2 has AVR(e)
lets take Heigan to set the example, thought that would be a fine boss to describe both addons
Group 1 pulls the boss: they dont know where to stand, they dont know where to move, and theyll probably die within they first few waves. All DBM lets you know is that there is a timer for when he teleports.
Group 2 pulls the boss: areas are marked where the casters should stand, where the rest should stand, and where to move after each wave. this group will most likely down the boss.

in this example "teleport!" or things like "fire!" "void zone!" or simply "move!", will barely help you if you're new to the fight. but the marked zones tell you exactly where to go and when, taking away the hardest parts of the fight for some people.

aside from the naughty drawings, AVR was fine, since all it did was let you draw out tactics as a raid leader. But with AVRe, you can basically down a boss with your brain on stand-by.

AVRe tactics boss 1:
tank/dps/heal and move to shiny circles
AVRe tactics boss 2:
tank/dps/heal and move to shiny circles
AVRe tactics boss 3:
tank/dps/heal and move to shiny circles

oh the fun!

[velde046]

Sigh...Yes my friend there is a difference. Whether it be two things or 10 things that are different. The huge difference is that DBM will simply say "Stop casting" "Run away" . AVR will paint out on the friggin ground where to go and be safe from any green balls that drop out of the sky, or away from any bad floor..dbm does not do that.

Put it simply...DBM can tell a noob to run away..and if the noob runs in the wrong direction because he doesnt know where to go, he'll die. AVR Says "Hey, moron, come this way, you're safe..."only the penantant man will pass" <-- quoted from Indiana Jones...
Something like that man... "Step on these bricks and youre safe..." vs "Yo, across that patch of stones and hope for the best!"

Come on let's be serious, how hard is it to put up flares to show people where to go, or go to the player marked with star.... there are several ways to show people where to go.... and basically that is stuff that you know anyway after 2 or 3 tries. I still stand by my point, if you think this should not be used, then you should not use DBM either... But like I said in some other post, I won't miss it that much anyway, but my dyslectic friend will. Finally he could keep up with things that are happening just because he did not have to read all tactics and instruction, but got visual instructions and cues...
Personally I have only used AVR for making some scenes and trying it out, was nice to be able to put up tactics that way, bit like drawing in sand before a battle. Also was nice for my shammy's range of totems. But like I said, I can live without it.

[Deleted]

I agree that during an encounter Avr+ Avr E makes some fights bit easier but not all, on the other hand Avr is a great tool to show visually your strategy, pointing out where player x and y should be positioned and where to run when boss does some thing.

A solution to the problem is to disable Avr once the fight starts, that way it will be a potent addon and beneficial tool for all guilds. Much of the work goes in to pre-planning of a boss encounter, and by far the longest time is spent to convey the strategy, so all members will understand, especially here in Europe where the majority of the wow community are non native English speakers, but have English as their second or even third language.

Its not unlikely where we have to explain to our children in Swedish, and then the same thing in Polish or German to our other members.

for gear score, i hope they remove it soon.

[velde046]

Sigh...Yes my friend there is a difference. Whether it be two things or 10 things that are different. The huge difference is that DBM will simply say "Stop casting" "Run away" . AVR will paint out on the friggin ground where to go and be safe from any green balls that drop out of the sky, or away from any bad floor..dbm does not do that.

Put it simply...DBM can tell a noob to run away..and if the noob runs in the wrong direction because he doesnt know where to go, he'll die. AVR Says "Hey, moron, come this way, you're safe..."only the penantant man will pass" <-- quoted from Indiana Jones...
Something like that man... "Step on these bricks and youre safe..." vs "Yo, across that patch of stones and hope for the best!"

Come on let's be serious, how hard is it to put up flares to show people where to go, or go to the player marked with star.... there are several ways to show people where to go.... and basically that is stuff that you know anyway after 2 or 3 tries. I still stand by my point, if you think this should not be used, then you should not use DBM either... But like I said in some other post, I won't miss it that much anyway, but my dyslectic friend will. Finally he could keep up with things that are happening just because he did not have to read all tactics and instruction, but got visual instructions and cues...
Personally I have only used AVR for making some scenes and trying it out, was nice to be able to put up tactics that way, bit like drawing in sand before a battle. Also was nice for my shammy's range of totems. But like I said, I can live without it.

BTW the problem actually is not AVR, it's actually AVRe, then encounter module. AVR is basically just an addon that helps you make strategy diagrams, telling people where to stand. AVRe is the part that does warnings etc. for encounters....

[Avalanch]

You should really take a look into things before you state something.
Apperently you missed the clear difference between DBM/DXE/BigWigs and AVRE.

AVRE gets as close to "legit" cheating as you possibly can.
DBM, DXE and BigWigs are only giving you alerts, not showing you where to stand, which is classified as cheating since it alters the envirrorment.

DBM/DXE/BigWigs give you alerts on every boss. AVR E will trivialize only a couple encounters while on others it will do little to nothing to help you down encounters. In the long run they are the same.

Edit: No one here seems to understand this. They seem to believe that on EVERY fight AVRE will just tell you where to stand and you automatically win.

[Taryble]

Because AVR (not AVRE) can be accessed by ANY boss mod written to take advantage of it, to give you those shiny circles on every boss encounter.

I know Raid Encounters 2 has full AVR support - every Northrend raid encounter is fully AVR'd. I believe DBM and DXE were also starting to add AVR support.

[wigg1es]

DBM/DXE/BigWigs give you alerts on every boss. AVR E will trivialize only a couple encounters while on others it will do little to nothing to help you down encounters. In the long run they are the same.

Edit: No one here seems to understand this. They seem to believe that on EVERY fight AVRE will just tell you where to stand and you automatically win.

You really think that a timer and a sound prompt are the same thing as a giant circle on the screen displaying where to stand and not stand?

Wow... No.

The trivialization of the encounters isn't the point. The point is that it interacts with the game world, which is never supposed to happen.

Beyond that and more to what you're suggesting, yes AVR does trivialize encounters to a far, far greater degree than DXE/DBM. A sound prompt and a text alert at least require that you process information and make a decision based on your surroundings (a decision which can still be wrong). A giant green circle is a giant green circle. Its a color and a shape. You can train monkeys to react to that. Either you're in the circle, or you aren't. There's no decision-making whatsoever.

Trivializing even one encounter is too many and the way it does it is against the rules. End of story.

And I think Blizzard has a lot of stupid rules, but they're getting this one very right.

[Driftage]

I wonder how many people are going to be stuck on Putricide now in ICC.

[BrotherGriMM]

yeah i'm glad its going tbh, it was only a matter of time before someone managed to work a bot in to react to it and they could set up little raid farm groups that work from one button, good riddance

[Pascal]

It made me lul because my raid leader is a huge advocate of it, while at the same time being one of those "I am a superior WoW raider!" kind of people. Watching him fuck up more often will be a hoot.

P.S. DBM and AVR are so incredibly different that anyone who thinks they are similar should sit down, turn off the tv and computer and just think about it for a minute or two. Hopefully the realization will strike.

Here's a hint: Uninstall DBM and raid. You'll notice that you're still getting alerts! How can this be?! The vast majority of DBM alerts are...get this...defaulted into wow. Surprise!

[fireball777]

It made me lul because my raid leader is a huge advocate of it, while at the same time being one of those "I am a superior WoW raider!" kind of people. Watching him fuck up more often will be a hoot.

P.S. DBM and AVR are so incredibly different that anyone who thinks they are similar should sit down, turn off the tv and computer and just think about it for a minute or two. Hopefully the realization will strike.

Here's a hint: Uninstall DBM and raid. You'll notice that you're still getting alerts! How can this be?! The vast majority of DBM alerts are...get this...defaulted into wow. Surprise!

Yeah, DBM has been out so long now that if Blizz wanted to get rid of it they would have already. As soon as I saw the AVR post on the homepage I was already calling that this would be a mod that Blizz would get rid of. It just makes somewhat difficult mechanics in raids very trivial if you're pretty much being told where to stand and when.

[HebrewJackson]

god forbid you play the game as it was intended. use your brain seriously. this game got so easy when DBM came out, how much easier do you need it to get?

[thetaurenrogue]

Honestly it would be pretty awful if there was no timers for things like defile and valks on the LK fight. There is just a lot of mechanics that would become hell if we did not have timers for them.

Those are retarded easy to know when they are going to happen in what order after you have done p2 like times. If they broke dbm and bigwigs the gap between great good and bad guilds would be huge. At least 3/4ths of these kingslayers would not be around still.

[Pavito777]

I'm glad its getting removed. IMO dbm is a great addons for those who are less observant, or have poor eyesight, the messages flashing on the screen are helpful, a little lazy, but helpful nonetheless. AVR is just plain raiding for retards. It basically makes it to where you never have to pay attention to anything but little circles on the ground again. If you're so lazy you can comprehend that goo, fire, or purple and green shit on the ground is bad, you need to stop raiding. I can see how it may benefit for learning a fight, but still, way beyond what you should need to learn a fight. Even in ICC. on normal, that place is already to ez, i've seen PuG's that require it, and they get 7 or 8 out of 12 because that shit makes it that easy.
good riddance raiding for retards

[Avalanch]

DBM and other alert add-ons tell you when to move.
AVR tells you where to move, which is a big difference, especially if you use both DBM and AVR.
If you're only using DBM, the raid knows when to run, but not where to run. You can run in 360 degrees,
which means 25 persons can run in 360 different directions. AVR tells the whole raid where to go, so
that makes tactics even more trivial. A raid leader should explain fights and control the raid, not a single addon.
You can use professions to achieve the same effect, like the smoke coming up out of the ground.
You just have to tell someone 'if you get moon, go stand on the left flare' etc. This is just as easy but it requires
at least a bit of thinking before and during fights!

Geormetry my friend... geometry.. A circle has an infinite number of radii, not just 360 which would mean that you can run an infinite amount of directions; not just 360.

Secondly, yes a raid leader should be the one giving out instructions about where to stand and what is going to happen. DBM, just like AVR E, will also make the raid leaders job less meaningful because it will be giving out everything that you will need to know for the encounter, such as timers and abilities.

[Dessan]

Yeah was just a matter of time before this happened really.

Still props to the guy who made it, it's a solid idea and looks geat if it weren't for making the game dot-to-dot easy.

[Arborus]

which is classified as cheating since it alters the envirrorment.

AVR DOES NOT ALTER THE GAME ENVIRONMENT. IT DRAWS ON THE UIPARENT STRATA, THE SAME LEVEL ALL OF YOUR INTERFACE ADDONS APPEAR ON ( unless strata is altered.)
ADDONS CANNOT DRAW IN THE GAME WORLD.

[Avalanch]

Beyond that and more to what you're suggesting, yes AVR does trivialize encounters to a far, far greater degree than DXE/DBM. A sound prompt and a text alert at least require that you process information and make a decision based on your surroundings (a decision which can still be wrong). A giant green circle is a giant green circle. Its a color and a shape. You can train monkeys to react to that. Either you're in the circle, or you aren't. There's no decision-making whatsoever.

So you're telling me that when you are fighting Sindragosa and you get targeted with Frost Beacon you automatically know where to stand?

No.. You need to decide whether you go to the tail or to the head.. based on the previous tomb. Now what does AVR E do that would make this such an easy thing to counter? Nothing. It puts a circle under your character telling you that you have the debuff and you will be frozen.

This could be countered just as easily by someone without any addons at all.. by simply looking at your buff table or the arrow above your head.

Even a fight that was said to be trivialized by AVR E can be just as easily killed by a person without any addons at all.