Explain me something about reckoning.

[doril33t]

I know it's bad talent cause when boss parrys your attack, he gains extra swing and instantly hits you again and again.
So today someone told me this swing-haste effect works only on Sindragosa, Lich King and Professor in ICC.
Is that true? Or am i wrong about reckoning at all?

[Nillo]

I know it's bad talent cause when boss parrys your attack, he gains extra swing and instantly hits you again and again.
So today someone told me this swing-haste effect works only on Sindragosa, Lich King and Professor in ICC.
Is that true? Or am i wrong about reckoning at all?

Yes only a few bosses are affect by parry haste, but that doesn't change the fact, that reckoning is useless.

[kenneth044]

The problem about reckoning is that it's a pure threat talent, but you are better off using those 5 points somewhere else, which gives more threat.

[DaGhostDS]

Yes only a few bosses are affect by parry haste, but that doesn't change the fact, that reckoning is useless.

and the fact that the better your avoidance get, the worse the talent become

[Leidus]

Yes only a few bosses are affect by parry haste, but that doesn't change the fact, that reckoning is useless.

Reckoning is not useless.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...b-tps-analysis

Reckoning is nearly as much TPS per talent point as Crusade. 3/5 Reckoning is a viable alternative to the 3 points in Divine Sac/Divine Guardian in a threat specific build. If you're running mainly 5 mans, you'd be a fool to not have Reckoning along with Seal of Command in your build. The two have very good synergy on AoE pulls.

The only real issue with Reckoning is that, in an intelligent build, you only have 3 points to spend on it, and it's often better to spend those points on DS/DG since you're probably not having much threat issues. It has nothing to do with anyone's perception that it's worthless or doesn't proc enough to be worth taking.

[Deleted]

Reckoning is useless.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...b-tps-analysis

Reckoning is not even close to as much TPS per talent point as Crusade except in like...Ulduar.

Fixt.

[Nillo]

If you're running mainly 5 mans, you'd be a fool to not have Reckoning along with Seal of Command in your build. The two have very good synergy on AoE pulls.

And someone, who asks if Prof/Sindra/LK have Parry Haste certainly runs a lot of 5 mans.

[kenneth044]

And someone, who asks if Prof/Sindra/LK have Parry Haste certainly runs a lot of 5 mans.

Nor would you sacrifice Divine Guardian in the first place if you were any serious!

[Leidus]

Zefie, look at the link I posted. Crusade may be double effective in ICC, but that doesn't change that Reckoning is still a decent threat increase per point, and also shows up in almost all of the high TPS builds he modeled. Hardly useless.

Nillo, I was simply providing more information. People saying Reckoning is useless is a blanket statement, and it is not useless in all situations. Worrying about Parry-Haste is what's useless. That hasn't been a real concern since Crushing Blows.

Tesshiro, yes, I covered that most people pick DS/DG. There is, however, more than one viable build for protection paladins.

[doril33t]

Alright.
can i have a full list of bosses that have parry-haste effect on parry?
and btw, someone said when boss parrys NOT my attack (i am saying this as tank) the boss TO gains parry-haste swing on me.
Like, Warrior hits sindragosa and his attack is parried by her, so she instantly swings me from his parry. is that true?

[Copain]

Reckoning is not useless.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...b-tps-analysis

Reckoning is nearly as much TPS per talent point as Crusade. 3/5 Reckoning is a viable alternative to the 3 points in Divine Sac/Divine Guardian in a threat specific build. If you're running mainly 5 mans, you'd be a fool to not have Reckoning along with Seal of Command in your build. The two have very good synergy on AoE pulls.

The only real issue with Reckoning is that, in an intelligent build, you only have 3 points to spend on it, and it's often better to spend those points on DS/DG since you're probably not having much threat issues. It has nothing to do with anyone's perception that it's worthless or doesn't proc enough to be worth taking.

Having a 1.5 in 25 chance to proc it at 3/5 isn't really that great. Sure it's nice when it's up, but it is highly unlikely it will be up much. Losing DS/DG is also really annoying (As you stated in your post at the end) since you can really get a nice benefit out of those.

And IMO, a talent shouldn't make it so you have it worse on certain boss fights. The fact that you have to worry more about Parry hasting killing you seems like a downside to the talent. Where as something like Divinity has no downside (Yes, I know it's not as good as other talents, but the talent alone would only have up sides since it's more healing).

[Nillo]

Alright.
can i have a full list of bosses that have parry-haste effect on parry?
and btw, someone said when boss parrys NOT my attack (i am saying this as tank) the boss TO gains parry-haste swing on me.
Like, Warrior hits sindragosa and his attack is parried by her, so she instantly swings me from his parry. is that true?

Eh that looks pretty weird. It's actually pretty simple:
If an attack made by YOU is parried by the BOSS, then and only then the boss gains a faster swing.
The same works for player attacks:
If an attack made against you is parried by you, then and only then will YOU gain a faster swing.

[iootnega]

Eh that looks pretty weird. It's actually pretty simple:
If an attack made by YOU is parried by the BOSS, then and only then the boss gains a faster swing.
The same works for player attacks:
If an attack made against you is parried by you, then and only then will YOU gain a faster swing.

What he said.

People always have it backwards. A properly geared tank should not need to worry about parry hasting. The way to stop parry hasting on the boss is through expertise.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Parry
nice bit about parry ahste there wich saysthat everytime a boss parrys if it has parry haste turned on it gain on average 0.24 extra swings per parry and the scary thing with parry haste in the past was pretty much crushing blows and hard hitting bosses that turned around to cast a debuff on some raid member and while doing that parried 4-5 of the mele dps attaks and gained an extra swing and pretty much insta gibbed the tank.
from what i heard the bosses that ahs parry ahste flagged on in icc are only lady DW and the shadow lancing one of the tree bloodprinces might be wrong though.

[Kayvas]

afaik according to some test on maintankadin only LDW and sindragosa have parry haste enabled in ICC

[Rootofalleli]

Parry-haste is trivial in Icecrown, since it only happens on bosses with weak melee attacks. Reckoning will cost you points in either (a) better threat talents or (b) talents that save the raid/you from death. Maybe parry-haste will matter again in Cata, and maybe Reckoning will be worth talent points too. Right now neither is worth worrying about.

[Copain]

Try doing Icecrown without the buff. Giving the boss free attacks might not be so good when your healers can't keep up.

[Doddilus]

a list of icc and toc bosses:

http://avengingwrathy.wordpress.com/...o-parry-haste/

[Ellva]

isnt parry haste going away for good in cataclysm?

[Lark]

It's not a free attack and never was. It's an acceleration in the next swing, which was a big big deal in stuff like SWP, when double crush gibbed your tank. Beyond that, who cares what it is like 'without the buff'? Who turns the buff off? No one? Good work.