Few fire mage pvp questions

[Youallfail]

Hello fellow fire mages, i have recently regemmed for crit as main priority (meaning : red= sp/crit yellow= pure crit using spell pene/crit gems in blues) dropped about 55 sp by doing that and gained about 2,5% crit (wich is actually quiete noticable), currently sitting on 32% crit (a little more with molten armor) i have 2850 SP and by inspecting top geared fire mages ive seen most of them using the crit BM trinket, im not sure if at my gear level its worth dropping 150 passive SP to get it, as i feel like i should really keep my SP near at least 2900 before going mindlessly only for crit.
Another thing im not really sure about is my spec http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ofcbrzrZfVcfor0uizrhst inb4 lol no mana regen talents ... i play comps where mana isnt really issue in both 2s and 3s.

I dont know if i shouldnt drop molten fury to fill the missing points in improved scorch and spell impact, i would really like to get pyromaniac (for the crit mainly) but just dont see any talent points i could free for it, arcane shielding maybe??? i find mana shield absolutely shitty without it (not like ist very good talented.. but decent and at least works a little) other possibly skippable talents i see are World in flames ( 6% less pyro crit tho :-X) and maybe impact (but this is incredibly annoying talent for everyone and i love it )
Also i feel like Firestarter is really nice talent( dmg is probably pretty shitty ... but hey its free and instant) .... that sadly no proper fire pvp spec can afford without sacraficing too much.

So.... Would you recommend skipping Molten fury or arcane shielding, filling improved scorch and spell impact(or getting firestarter?? 2 points in pyromaniac??? or whatever OMG wtb more talent points ), also would you recommend getting the crit BM trinket over the SP one or wait for that till i get better weap so that i dont drop too low on sp atm?

PS: one last thing ... the other trinket im using is normal spyglass ... nice passive crit and the stacks are nearly 100% up in arena... isnt Nevermelting ice crystal better choice? 111 passive sp and the use effect could be cool for fire... nearly like another combustion without the increased crit dmg.
Pls dont come trolling here if you dont have fire pvp exp.

---------- Post added 06-20-2010 at 09:21 AM ----------

No suggestions?

[zcks]

Speaking as someone who does not play a mage,I would suggest you either go frost or if you are really good at playing a mage go arcane for pvp. Frost counters all melee classes extremely well & does decently against ranged classes as well. arcane counters both decently but really comes into its own when fighting other casters but must be played really well.

Fire spec pvp is just kind of dead, you may have some decent burst but you just sacrifice the majority of your CC for it which is what makes mages so good in the first place. Frost and arcane may not have quite as much burst but the sheer amount of ways they have to CC & lock people up is insane.

[Brownshoe]

yea... you need to change your spec...

i would link you a spec but i cant because i need more posts
(i personally go with a shatter build i find that it gives way more controlled burst with frost nova, dragons breath, Frostfire bolt then fireblast to get a really nice hot streak burst)
and for control... if you play fire well then you will rape any class pretty much, but fire is the hardest spec to play in the game so you have to have a lot of skill to play it and make it work

[Youallfail]

You arent answering my questions. Ill copy the important part again:

So.... Would you recommend skipping Molten fury or arcane shielding, filling improved scorch and spell impact(or getting firestarter?? 2 points in pyromaniac??? or whatever OMG wtb more talent points ), also would you recommend getting the crit BM trinket over the SP one or wait for that till i get better weap so that i dont drop too low on sp atm?

I dont wanna play frost or arcane, i wanna play fire... i know it has some disadvantages but it is really really fun spec to play.
Zcks, you are wrong about fire being dead and absolutely wrong about fire not having control, fire has way more control than arcane and againts some specs it has even more control than frost.

@Brownshoe: I tried frost/fire but honestly... pvp spec without improved cs is not good, also everyone can get out of frost nova and frostfirebolt is too long cast for good arena usage.

Could someone pls answer my questions now?

[rugglee]

go frost seriously..... or arcane if you are really decent in pvp, same if its not im thiking since you ask question about fire jesus imao

[elexion]

Another fire mage...i've been seeing a lot of these in bg's ever since healingproof released his fire PvP video. But yeah completely agree fire is fun to play but really doesnt offer that much control so yes go frost and if you really want to throw fireballs around but some talent points in mind freeze there you go. Extreme survivability awesome crowd control and fireballs!

[Zibeline]

You can has instant fire balls as frost, if you realy want to throw these kind of balls.

[Biged781]

They did answer your question, you are just too stubborn to take good advice. If you are serious at all about pvp you should not be fire spec'd.

[Martsus]

fire is awfull since your main and almost only nuke is Scorch which even with the glyph does pretty bad damage. Furthermore the whole fire tree is centered around critting to make stuff happen and guess what, with more and more people having 1000 - 1400 resi you wont do that too often. So what you got, a sh!t nuke, poor survivability and your real nifty stuff almost never procs.

[Youallfail]

I will say it once more, i dont enjoy frost or arcane anymore, i wanna play fire, i dont give a fuck about how bad you think it is, it is for sure 2K+ viable in all brackets.
Stop being ignorrant idiots and start answering my concrete questions. I had some very specific questions and you come here : go frost blah blah blah ... btw, last line of my first post was : Pls dont come trolling here if you dont have fire pvp exp.

Can someone explain me how fire spec has bad control and shit survivability compared to arcane? Only thing arcane has is broken amount of burst, but anyone with brain can shut down arcane mage SOOOO easily. Honestly only real problem i see is living bomb breaking cc. Only thing stopping fire from being great with healers in 2v2 is that we go oom incredibly fast compared to frost (not even talking about arcane with their 2 min evo they just cant run oom) but with dps we are fun alternative in this bracket, maybe not better than frost but still awesome. 3v3 and 5v5 is imo very doable 2200 as fire.

Martsus: You only nuke is scorch as long as you dont have decent crit, i can assure you that i can pressure even full wrathful healers fair enough to make them worry about themselves and im far from BiS, i cant kill them... but who can lol?

[proc]

http://www.youtube.com/user/FireMageryGuru#p/

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=154367

Fire is still viable, it just takes an insane amount of skill. However, as these people posted, if you're shooting for like 2600+ then no, fire is not viable.

OT: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Anaxagoras
Take your pick.

[Endeavor]

Hello fellow fire mages, i have recently regemmed for crit as main priority (meaning : red= sp/crit yellow= pure crit using spell pene/crit gems in blues) dropped about 55 sp by doing that and gained about 2,5% crit (wich is actually quiete noticable), currently sitting on 32% crit (a little more with molten armor) i have 2850 SP and by inspecting top geared fire mages ive seen most of them using the crit BM trinket, im not sure if at my gear level its worth dropping 150 passive SP to get it, as i feel like i should really keep my SP near at least 2900 before going mindlessly only for crit.
Another thing im not really sure about is my spec http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ofcbrzrZfVcfor0uizrhst inb4 lol no mana regen talents ... i play comps where mana isnt really issue in both 2s and 3s.

I dont know if i shouldnt drop molten fury to fill the missing points in improved scorch and spell impact, i would really like to get pyromaniac (for the crit mainly) but just dont see any talent points i could free for it, arcane shielding maybe??? i find mana shield absolutely shitty without it (not like ist very good talented.. but decent and at least works a little) other possibly skippable talents i see are World in flames ( 6% less pyro crit tho :-X) and maybe impact (but this is incredibly annoying talent for everyone and i love it )
Also i feel like Firestarter is really nice talent( dmg is probably pretty shitty ... but hey its free and instant) .... that sadly no proper fire pvp spec can afford without sacraficing too much.

So.... Would you recommend skipping Molten fury or arcane shielding, filling improved scorch and spell impact(or getting firestarter?? 2 points in pyromaniac??? or whatever OMG wtb more talent points ), also would you recommend getting the crit BM trinket over the SP one or wait for that till i get better weap so that i dont drop too low on sp atm?

PS: one last thing ... the other trinket im using is normal spyglass ... nice passive crit and the stacks are nearly 100% up in arena... isnt Nevermelting ice crystal better choice? 111 passive sp and the use effect could be cool for fire... nearly like another combustion without the increased crit dmg.
Pls dont come trolling here if you dont have fire pvp exp.

---------- Post added 06-20-2010 at 09:21 AM ----------

No suggestions?

I'm playing 19/52/0. My gear isnt that well because I dont play the char often, so I dont have any crit gems (enchanted and gemmed for frost) but I played Fire alot at the PTR with my friends and those guys know what they're doing in PvP. Fire worked very well for me. Just stick around 2900 SP, get the trinket from toc25 if you can, yeah sure, your crits are RNG but when the stars align a 3k trinket crit followed by a 6k pyroblast is great to see.

Anyway, here's my exact specc: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...Y,Ny9ReO,12213

I didnt take Molten Fury because it just lackluster imo. I took Firestarter because it's great to get rogues out of stealth and still, it's free damage and I like free damage. If you dont want it you can go for for Empowered Fire but it aint too great either.

Didnt take Burning Determination either because you basically wont use Fireball, Scorch is your main nuke. Use rank 1 frostbolts to slow people.


Hope this helped.

P.S. I never used this specc in arena, but it should be viable.

[Thirtyrock]

I will say it once more, i dont enjoy frost or arcane anymore, i wanna play fire, i dont give a fuck about how bad you think it is, it is for sure 2K+ viable in all brackets.
Stop being ignorrant idiots and start answering my concrete questions. I had some very specific questions and you come here : go frost blah blah blah ... btw, last line of my first post was : Pls dont come trolling here if you dont have fire pvp exp.

Can someone explain me how fire spec has bad control and shit survivability compared to arcane? Only thing arcane has is broken amount of burst, but anyone with brain can shut down arcane mage SOOOO easily. Honestly only real problem i see is living bomb breaking cc. Only thing stopping fire from being great with healers in 2v2 is that we go oom incredibly fast compared to frost (not even talking about arcane with their 2 min evo they just cant run oom) but with dps we are fun alternative in this bracket, maybe not better than frost but still awesome. 3v3 and 5v5 is imo very doable 2200 as fire.

Martsus: You only nuke is scorch as long as you dont have decent crit, i can assure you that i can pressure even full wrathful healers fair enough to make them worry about themselves and im far from BiS, i cant kill them... but who can lol?

First get glyph of polymorph so if you sheep someone it removes living bomb. Solves that problem. Going oom is a problem, I find that if I really really need mana I iceblock to remove dots, then invis and run LOS to evocate. Probably not the best, but it's what works for me. I would drop arcane shielding. Only use mana shield if you absolutely have to. I am frostfire bolt, so I ignore scorch except for the debuff. It's a long cast time but the dot & snare can't be beat.

Go for the extra crit imo.

[conqq]

http://www.youtube.com/user/FireMageryGuru#p/

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=154367

Fire is still viable, it just takes an insane amount of skill. However, as these people posted, if you're shooting for like 2600+ then no, fire is not viable.

OT: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Anaxagoras
Take your pick.

that anax guy is amazing, I stole his spec & it's working great for me. my mage runs about 40% ub crit w/ 2500 SP

[Martsus]

http://www.youtube.com/user/FireMageryGuru#p/

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=154367

Fire is still viable, it just takes an insane amount of skill. However, as these people posted, if you're shooting for like 2600+ then no, fire is not viable.

OT: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Anaxagoras
Take your pick.

All I see is a firemage trying hard to get sub 35% hp so he can show off some lucky 10k pyro crits. Trust me, I tried it too, and it sucked. He is a good mage, but heck, it's still a $hit spec. Also he got close to bis gear.
If you're going fire the only build you can 'rely' on is the fire-shatter build, however that one still sucks versus almost anything.

[proc]

you do realize that staying alive below 35% HP is harder than you think it is, especially with 6+ people on you. Luck had nothing to do with it.

[Martsus]

you do realize that staying alive below 35% HP is harder than you think it is, especially with 6+ people on you. Luck had nothing to do with it.

It's like propaganda, you only get to see the good stuff in this video. Not the times he got globalled 100%-0 by a MM hunter from 40 yards distance.

To get more serious, an Elementalist build I could see working would be this one;

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#oZfVbf...GsthhcIo0h:Ldh

Needed for this; a friendly frostmage that can setup up freezes for you, along with a shitload of haste. In theory you should have a pretty darng fricken high chance to crit twice in a row every frost nova, allowing you to stack more haste instead of crit. Comp I could see working somehow(aka 2.4k max), Rshaman + FrMage + FiMage.

[Syllom]

made an account to reply on this post.
QQmoar to all who are telling to OP wtfnoobzorfrostpawnzzzz.every spec in every class is really good in arenas/bg but you have to be determinded to be good at it,especially with fire mages.

proc:you didn't give the right link.(damn im not allowed to post links since this is my first post).search in WCM for fire 'n destruction
in this vid the lock is OK,guess cause my main is a lock and im not that surpiced with him,but bebep....you all have to admit that this guy knows how to play fire like anyone else.

[Thirtyrock]

If you are an elemental/ffb Mage and you cast living bomb while the target is frozen do you get the shatter crit bonus on living bomb? Would you still get it for a quick scorch/fire blast combo.

If so you're looking at a much improved living bomb.

Edited for spelling

[Martsus]

If you are an elemental/ffb Mage and you cast living bomb while the target is frozen do you get the shatter crit bonus on living bomb? Would you still get it for a quick scorch/fire blast combo.

If so you're looking at a much improved living bomb.

Edited for spelling

I guess you would get the critical strike bonus on it, since it says +50% crit chance for ALL spells.

made an account to reply on this post.
QQmoar to all who are telling to OP wtfnoobzorfrostpawnzzzz.every spec in every class is really good in arenas/bg but you have to be determinded to be good at it,especially with fire mages.

Holy Priests also work to a certain extent in arena's, does it mean they are 'really good'? Hell no.