Inner fire and Inner will

[crimsonclovers]

Doesn't this seem mixed up to you?

Inner will should have 12% movement speed and armor.

While Inner Fire should have Spell Power and 10% reduced cost on instant spells. IMO



Yes yes this will probably all change in a few days but everything is open to speculation.

[Kelesti]

Doesn't this seem mixed up to you?

Inner will should have 12% movement speed and armor.

While Inner Fire should have Spell Power and 10% reduced cost on instant spells. IMO



Yes yes this will probably all change in a few days but everything is open to speculation.

Then you have one PvP and one PvE, and it's not a real choice which one you're using. Might as well put charges back on it.

[Zoros]

You can make Inner Will permanent for PvP and Inner Fire permanent for PvE because the spells will become boring as Unbreakable Will and Spiritual Healing talents. Besides Inner armor spells are self buffs, so you would only use the spell every 30m on yourself. Fun? No.

With the current design Inner armor spells could add an interesting gameplay. Priests could change between armor to get some mana or extra spell power when necessary. Inner Will seems a bit weak to me, but I like the idea of switching armors.

[Lysdexic]

My only gripe is that you're going to be encouraged to swap at very very critical moments. Right after you get a peel and are trying to get away from angry melee would be the best time to swap to inner will. This is a GCD you could've used to bubble/pom/renew yourself or penance on the move.

If you don't successfully escape with your jaw-dropping 20% movement speed, you're now stuck (probably in a stun) with -86% of your armor. (Yes inner fire rank at 81 increases armor by 86% and spellpower by 450 or so).

I'm just not sure I can justify losing so much armor when it will be primary useful to escape melee. Against caster it will get you behind pillars faster which is nice (not that the armor helps there anyway).

[Daws001]

I'm left with a "meh" feeling regarding IW & IF. I don't like how muddled they are either. I guess I can see how "armor swapping" would be a fun mechanic for pvp. Add some depth/strategy. I'm not seeing it for pve though. Sounds like a hassle and probably not worth the effort in the end. You'll just stick to an armor for the fight and not fuss with the gcds/cost.

I would rather see Inner Fire get the speed boost, which is far more useful in pve than the armor boost, and Inner Will get the armor. Pvp Priests are still left with two compelling armors that they can swap with whereas pve Priests have them more streamlined.

The problem I have with the mana cost reduction (for pve) is that it doesn't apply to all spells. FH, Heal, GH, PoH, DH, Penance, & PW:B are all left out of the benefit. The spell power boost is all encompassing, however, and S.Priests of course aren't going to bother with Inner Will in pve.

[Zoros]

My only gripe is that you're going to be encouraged to swap at very very critical moments. Right after you get a peel and are trying to get away from angry melee would be the best time to swap to inner will. This is a GCD you could've used to bubble/pom/renew yourself or penance on the move.

The major problem will be rogues. Against the rest we can change to Inner Fire before being struck in combat, or instantly after being struck in combat. I know that a single GCD is important to survive, but we are already wasting GCDs refreshing Inner Fire charges, so there's no difference imo.

If you don't successfully escape with your jaw-dropping 20% movement speed, you're now stuck (probably in a stun) with -86% of your armor. (Yes inner fire rank at 81 increases armor by 86% and spellpower by 450 or so).

That is part of a secret and evil priest design xD They removed Inner Fire charges because with Inner Will there be will enough situations where priests will die in just some seconds.

[Kelesti]

and S.Priests of course aren't going to bother with Inner Will in pve.

If that was true, then every single caster out there would be using 18 Spirit on their feet, and not a single Rocket Boots, or Tuskarr's Vitality. But it is taken. Now you have a GCD that lets you run faster, whether it's a movement fight, or a movement phase (or even between phases), swapping to Inner Will for some of those is going to be beneficial (zomg kite. zomg kill guys in back, zomg run out of group).

And plus, with how HUGE Deathwing is, I would not be surprised if we end up running a Marathon for that fight. A "lost" GCD isn't really lost, not 100% of the time.

[crimsonclovers]

Inner will could get a magic resistance buff or some kind(10% less Damage from spells?) so inner will could be used vs spell casters while inner fire could be melee.

[Lysdexic]

Just a quick comment, because I'm about 80% sure, iirc, that boot speed enchant is not exclusive with inner will. We're advertised 12%, but since it stacks, its 20%.

[Kelesti]

Inner will could get a magic resistance buff or some kind(10% less Damage from spells?) so inner will could be used vs spell casters while inner fire could be melee.

I hear running Line of Sight and out of range is better against both casters and melee.

[Nangz]

I hear running Line of Sight and out of range is better against both casters and melee.

The problem is rogues which, sorry, have the most annoying snares. All other melee besides ret paladins have a semi spammable ranged snare that makes kiting or getting out of ranged a real problem.

[Kelesti]

True enough, the armor does work better against the melee "most" of the time, even without the snares they usually have a gap closer to keep pressure on.

But really, I don't feel the need for them to add a magic reduction to Inner Will to make one "better for X" while number two is what you'd use for "Y". That should be from a person's intuition and use of the spell, not the buff designed as a flat out counter and telling you that it is.

That's like saying Juggernaut gets text at the bottom "also guarantees that you can stun your target for 2 seconds from ranged with no diminishing returns". The reason Mage Armor received one is quite frankly, Mage armor is terrible, and they wanted people using something other than Molten Armor 100% of the time (unless you're Frost).

These being designed with alternate use in mind don't necessarily need to have an addon like reduced magic damage.

[Tiberria]

I like the concept of Inner Will, and think it only working on instant casts is fine. Basically, if we are moving enough to make using it worth it, we probably won't have the time to stand and cast cast time spells. With the changes they are making to shaman and paladin healing as well, it seems likely that Catacylsm raids are going to require a lot more mobility than current raids do.

[zito]

Personally I can't find a use for this in PvP. I think all melee classes have a passive 15% melee run speed along with some type of slow or stun if your trying to kite or get away. The extra 5% run speed is not enough to compensate and we are losing a huge chunk of our Armour. Id rather cast something else more useful with my GCD than lose my Armour for a 5% movement speed increase to try and get away when I am probably going to get stunned or slowed.

For PvE however it will be situational to move quickly out of some slime or incoming attack.

[Kelesti]

I think it's more that in PvP you'd probably start with the run speed, and shift to the Armor when needed. In non-physical matches, or when mana matters more than that little bit of armor, sticking with Will won't be that hard to do. And for PvE, I can see Will having more use than Fire, at least starting out, because even though it's only instant casts, every little bit of mana will help even without the movement. At least, in comparison to a little more Spell Power.

[zito]

I think it's more that in PvP you'd probably start with the run speed, and shift to the Armor when needed. In non-physical matches, or when mana matters more than that little bit of armor, sticking with Will won't be that hard to do. And for PvE, I can see Will having more use than Fire, at least starting out, because even though it's only instant casts, every little bit of mana will help even without the movement. At least, in comparison to a little more Spell Power.

Little bit of Armour turns out to be a lot currently on live. But on beta I am not so sure. Speaking from a shadow priest point of view if I start out with will and I meet a arms warrior I switch to inner fire for the sp boost and Armour boost costing me a GCD in that GCD I could of had 1/3 of my dots up before the warrior charged. I'm sure we will find some uses for it but right now its not looking all to good for pvp vs melee.For fighting against casters, getting out of their casting range yea I can see will having use there.

The key word in our class preview about inner will is "situational" and using the word situational for this is taking it lightly.

[Kelesti]

Fair enough. I also see us having a lot of ground to cover, with and without mounts, so I see it as greatly beneficial. I was more viewing it as a Discipline (or Holy) Priest's point of view, not Shadow.

And I may be overvaluing it for PvP, but people place so much emphasis on Tuskarr's, when there's a pure Stam that's higher, and a DPS option that's better as well, whereas this is changable in combat.

I think what they meant by "situational" is that "There is no clear cut <Must use this for:>", which unfortunately is the case with Warlocks, Mages, Hunters, or even Shaman shield spells.

[zito]

Fair enough. I also see us having a lot of ground to cover, with and without mounts, so I see it as greatly beneficial. I was more viewing it as a Discipline (or Holy) Priest's point of view, not Shadow.

And I may be overvaluing it for PvP, but people place so much emphasis on Tuskarr's, when there's a pure Stam that's higher, and a DPS option that's better as well, whereas this is changable in combat.

I think what they meant by "situational" is that "There is no clear cut <Must use this for:>", which unfortunately is the case with Warlocks, Mages, Hunters, or even Shaman shield spells.

We are not entirely sure whats going to happen with enchants at level 85 though. So that stam or dps enchant might just stay at 80 and we will get something completely different. To soon to say though. However I am still keeping my rocket boots FOREVER! Also on a side not damage is scaling way higher now. At level 82 a hunters aim shot crits for 22k. And we expect to have an average of 100k hp (wow). So it is really to soon to speculate whats going on till cataclysm is released.

I do see options where will can come in handy for disc since disc uses bubble to protect themselves a lot they can switch to will in between bubble cool downs to kite melee. (running with the flag in twin peaks or WSG is also useful, trying to catch a runner but also keep in mind every class should have some type of run speed increase).

[Annesh]

I, too, think the new priest caster armor implementation is clunky and weird. Like I said on the official priest forum, Will looks useful as an Aspect of the Cheetah, a temporary movement "stance" for when you're not under fire from a melee and just moving.

The problem is that this isn't how it's designed. It costs a GCD and mana, and then another GCD/mana to "shift" back into the armor that's almost universally more valuable.

I agree that switching up the bonuses the two armors provide will give both of them meaningful uses, bringing them more in line with the Fel/Demon Armor philosophy - which, as cloth caster armors, should be what they want to go for.

Also, the 10% mana reduction needs a buff or a complete replacement, because it's pretty poor.

[Kelesti]

Spellpower isn't "universally more valuable" from a healer's point of view. Not when a mana bar is supposed to actually mater.

The point theat they "want to go for" is not have a "PvE armor" and a "PvP armor". It's to use both. They both have meaningful uses; sitting down to define those uses devalues them.

If buffed, the 10% mana cost reduction (on instants) runs the risk of being overpowered. You say it's quite poor, when Spell Power is "Universally better", what would you actually give it to make it not OP? 15% on all spells? Higher Regen? Tell me what healer would ever shift out of it?