Mage broken class on beta

[gathanasiou]

I really can't see the point of this thread srsly even if my main is a mage.

I play fire in pve; not excellent geared but enough for 10-11k dps and i can say its really funny with all that FBs, LBs and Pyros going on around. And also Arcane is not 2 simple buttons; actually its around 7-8; it is also cd's, gems, evocation etc. Just try playing with those 2 buttons and u'll be oom in zero time (especially if u are not well geared - in long fights thats a problem.)

I cant talk for PvP cause every class QQs about everything. Imo skill in pvp is being revealed when players of equal gear are called to action.

And ffs plz it is still what? July? YES. So stop all that nonsense for Cataclysm. U all know it is going to be ready when blizz says so..

[Deleted]

That is beside the point. An arcane mage pressing 2 keys can do very decent dps. You need to used cd to melt the meter but you can do very well just with 2 keys.

Now name anyother dps class in the game that can do like 6k damage in 25m raids with 2 keys.

Warrior.

[Macgaiver]

Warrior.

You, You there, are really, really dumb. its 4 for fury, like 7 for arms. And so is the guy acting like 6k is a ton. If you werent pulling 6k or close to 6k after getting into hard mode uld you gotta get goin man.

[Deleted]

You, You there, are really, really dumb. its 4 for fury, like 7 for arms. And so is the guy acting like 6k is a ton. If you werent pulling 6k or close to 6k after getting into hard mode uld you gotta get goin man.

I know that 4 is for fury but I can do 6k dps by pressing just 2 buttons (Heroic strike and bloodthirst).

[rainCZ]

it's you

[Sabotaj]

All i'm thinking is

When Melee classes have it so good and are so strong and perform well in BG's (which will be even more important once Cata hits) and Arenas both, why the fuck would i roll a caster?

Why would i roll a squishy class when a tough-as-nails melee class does the same kind of damage, has 50k hp, has no mana bar to watch, can heal itself just like me without having to stand still, can silence like crazy/break through iceblock and shields and isn't easily gibbed after a single fuck up.

It might be me, sure L2P ROFL NOOB but when all i can see around me is Melee classes having a laugh and doing fine with minimal effort i get a little sad that i picked a Mage as one of my classes.

[Abandon]

Oddly enough, I simultaneously agree and disagree with you.

In the context of purely class abilities, significant RNG is really annoying and on the whole bad in PvE because PvE is solely about control of execution while fighting a machine/encounter. How do you have control of execution, which can be insanely difficult already due to just group and role coordination as well as varied fight mechanics (which can themselves contain a ton of rng)? However, RNG is really exciting for PvP because in a longer fight which tend to be the more enjoyable fights even if you use all your abilities perfectly to counter the enemies use of all their abilities the longer the fight goes on the more risk a proc will shift the balance dramtically to one side and the opponent will have to both be aware this shift has occurred and adapt to it.

TL;DR. RNG in PvE is bad. RNG in PvP is great. Mkay?

Got to disagree with your last point there. There's a reason everyone hated Stunherald and Mace Stun procs. They required no skill at all and randomly gave you a big advantage. If you like PVP, then you should enjoy beating a player with your own skill, not winning because you got lucky.

[sithorion]

That is beside the point. An arcane mage pressing 2 keys can do very decent dps. You need to used cd to melt the meter but you can do very well just with 2 keys.

Now name anyother dps class in the game that can do like 6k damage in 25m raids with 2 keys.

I can think of a class with one button:

ima boomkin: starfall, /dance

OT: Mages are fine the way they are. It takes skill to play a mage properly, and again MM hunters, Spriests and some others we're useless 1vs1. Even a Warrior that knows the mage, and does good spell reflects can kill a mage. It's all about skill, I think PvP is overall good balanced, except for maybe one or two classes.

[Grimshady]

You know what is broken?? The fact that all mages got ANOTHER get-out-of-melee-free-card.

You know why? Because in catalclysm you are going to have:

MOAR health. As much as the tanks in cata got.
MOAR Armor. Not as much as plate but who cares, because the Rog/War/DK/Pala/Hun's attack is mitrigated by armor and yours isn't, given you 20+ mitrigation while they got ,, 0.

And on top of that you still got all your tools to reduce the melee's damage uptime. So we are mayby allowed to do 80% of our damage 40% of time in battle, while you do 100% of your damage ALL THE TIME.

i play a rogue... and i still think you are an idiot. the reason WHY mages (and most casters in general) are able to do what you call "100% dmg all the time" is because they are squishy. the WHOLE point (and difficulty) of playing a cloth/squishy class in PvP is to play defensively while nuking when u can.

[Deleted]

You know what is broken?? The fact that all mages got ANOTHER get-out-of-melee-free-card.

You know why? Because in catalclysm you are going to have:

MOAR health. As much as the tanks in cata got.
MOAR Armor. Not as much as plate but who cares, because the Rog/War/DK/Pala/Hun's attack is mitrigated by armor and yours isn't, given you 20+ mitrigation while they got ,, 0.

And on top of that you still got all your tools to reduce the melee's damage uptime. So we are mayby allowed to do 80% of our damage 40% of time in battle, while you do 100% of your damage ALL THE TIME.

Also, mages are the only caster class without DoTs. All they can do is nuke, control or escape and their pets have very short uptimes. It's not as if the opponent is taking damage while the mage is one mile away. Compare that to all other casters - heck even the crappy non-Starfall damage of a Boomkin has two dots: Insect Swarm and Moonfire which can add up to a lot over time.

[Abandon]

Erm, just to point this out, unless you are ignoring the Mage and letting them chain-cast nukes at you, then they are not doing 100% of their damage ALL THE TIME. Also, melee classes get free bonus damage from white hits, while Mages can't do any damage unless they use a specific ability. Or wand you.

[Simca]

Guys, you completely forget that they haven't touched damage yet. They're just getting the spells and rotations right. Therefore, they haven't even got to the part where they start balancing your damage output in PvE or PvP.

[Bloodghast]

Hello.


As a Mage ACTUALLY testing builds in Cataclysm I should shed some light on some awful things I have read in this thread.

1. PvP is broken in the Cata beta right now other than world PvP. All I can say is that in my live lvl80 PvE gear, I 1v2ed a DK and ret paladin in Hyjal in my PvE arcane spec. They were lvls 81 and 83. I did get camped by them and two more allies a few minutes later though. I went all-in vs the DK and did next to nothing to him in damage, so for those bads crying about same health pools etc, armor type DOES make a huge difference. Yes I defeated my foes, but I got lucky that the ret was terrible.

2. Mage damage is very nerfed right now in the current build for arcane. Fire seems to be the same although having the "fire PvP" talents as auto-selections in the fire tree really help for leveling. As someone pointed out in a post before, the mobs have WAY too much health to the amount of damage being done. This goes for Warriors as well since I have an 83 warrior also. It's not just a "mage only" thing, it's a Blizzard needs to scale the fucking damage-to-health ratio thing for all classes.

3. Mages, are losing a new spell most likely, Flame Orb. Currently as of this typing you can't train it and those who have it say it doesn't work. Blizzard hasn't commented on replacing it nor fixing it so they will probably do what they normally do when they fuck up. Not implement it with no replacement (Like the original Heroic Leap). So if mages end up getting two spells (one of which is completely useless right now in PvP and PvE) as opposed to all other classes getting three, cool stuff....

4. To those who complain about two-button face-roll. You are those fails I see who roll a mage and have full ilvl264 gear and do 8K DPS in ICC25 with 30% buffs. L2P a class before you bash it bads. If I see classes with high DPS/Heals I give them respect, no matter what their rotation is. Same thing with PvP. Doesn't matter what comp has favorable matchups, it's all about the player handling them in the overall picture.

To close, Mages in the current CATACLYSM BETA BUILD (7/29/10) aren't working properly. I don't know what Blizzard tends to do but it's a lot of classes that are having major issues. I, personally just hope they give mages a spell replacement for the will-never-work-ever Flame Orb. I will also play my mage until the day I hang up my MMO days, no matter what nerfs, buffs, anything they do.


If you really want to feel for players....


I feel REALLY bad for shaman players. Their DPS and heals are still trash at 83 (even good and competent players handling them) and they lost their unique buffs. So if any class deserves to QQ about anything, it's them.


Have a nice day!
Bloodghast

[Deleted]

Hello.


As a Mage ACTUALLY testing builds in Cataclysm I should shed some light on some awful things I have read in this thread.

1. PvP is broken in the Cata beta right now other than world PvP. All I can say is that in my live lvl80 PvE gear, I 1v2ed a DK and ret paladin in Hyjal in my PvE arcane spec. They were lvls 81 and 83. I did get camped by them and two more allies a few minutes later though. I went all-in vs the DK and did next to nothing to him in damage, so for those bads crying about same health pools etc, armor type DOES make a huge difference. Yes I defeated my foes, but I got lucky that the ret was terrible.

2. Mage damage is very nerfed right now in the current build for arcane. Fire seems to be the same although having the "fire PvP" talents as auto-selections in the fire tree really help for leveling. As someone pointed out in a post before, the mobs have WAY too much health to the amount of damage being done. This goes for Warriors as well since I have an 83 warrior also. It's not just a "mage only" thing, it's a Blizzard needs to scale the fucking damage-to-health ratio thing for all classes.

3. Mages, are losing a new spell most likely, Flame Orb. Currently as of this typing you can't train it and those who have it say it doesn't work. Blizzard hasn't commented on replacing it nor fixing it so they will probably do what they normally do when they fuck up. Not implement it with no replacement (Like the original Heroic Leap). So if mages end up getting two spells (one of which is completely useless right now in PvP and PvE) as opposed to all other classes getting three, cool stuff....

4. To those who complain about two-button face-roll. You are those fails I see who roll a mage and have full ilvl264 gear and do 8K DPS in ICC25 with 30% buffs. L2P a class before you bash it bads. If I see classes with high DPS/Heals I give them respect, no matter what their rotation is. Same thing with PvP. Doesn't matter what comp has favorable matchups, it's all about the player handling them in the overall picture.

To close, Mages in the current CATACLYSM BETA BUILD (7/29/10) aren't working properly. I don't know what Blizzard tends to do but it's a lot of classes that are having major issues. I, personally just hope they give mages a spell replacement for the will-never-work-ever Flame Orb. I will also play my mage until the day I hang up my MMO days, no matter what nerfs, buffs, anything they do.


If you really want to feel for players....


I feel REALLY bad for shaman players. Their DPS and heals are still trash at 83 (even good and competent players handling them) and they lost their unique buffs. So if any class deserves to QQ about anything, it's them.


Have a nice day!
Bloodghast

Thanks for this actual useful beta information. And I agree, Shamans got it bad, lol. I do feel sorry for them.

[Theed]

Blizzard hasnt even touched pvp balance. Nothing to worry about, YET. I really hope they learned from their mistakes with mages, rets and dks at early S5 and we'll be able to test pvp.