World of Warcraft: Panderans reveal at Comic-Con 2010

[Cactrot]

Skeletons? What a horrible analogy. They've been in the game since Classic. It would be more like "Death Knights are problematic to implement because this Pagan cult that worships the dead is a massive part of our subscriber base." There isn't even any kind of overlap.

So I misquoted the date? Yes. It was 2008. Do you not believe me? It's on Youtube straight out of Brack's mouth. Check the Q&A.

Obviously there's always a chance, but the fact remains that China's problems with it played a part. I didn't say it made it impossible, but it is impacting it.

I was there, so I was thinking back to 2009 and quite sure he said nothing of the sort. So the date did matter actually. I do believe that he said it'd be problematic. That is not the same thing as saying "we won't do it because of china." Once again LOOK AT WRATH OF THE LICH KING. It's pretty clear that was problematic too. Pandaren won't be playable, but that isn't the reason why. You claiming it's because of china it won't be happening is what I think you're wrong about.

Thank you, Falarson for providing the name of that game. I can never seem to remember it when this stuff comes up.

So once again, if China is what matters, wotlk never would have been released. If pandas are such an issue there, explain perfect world. 2 Pretty giant holes in your argument man. Either one of them alone makes it hold no water.

[Grimmer]

And if Chinese have problems about Pandas in games, can you explain me Perfect World please (which is chinese)?
img142.imageshack.us/img142/9227/panda021200ur1.jpg

Here's your explanation: it's Chinese, like you said.

Seriously. That's why. They're OK with using their own symbol themselves, because it "belongs" to them. When other people use it, it's not.

It's also overlapping with Japanese culture, and they're not exactly cool with that.

I don't understand why a quote from the Lead Producer of the game is so hard to understand. Yes, they could have changed their mind. If they have, we'll know about it. Until then, there's no reason to think they did and people should drop the issue.

Pandaren won't be playable, but that isn't the reason why. You claiming it's because of china it won't be happening is what I think you're wrong about.

Ok. But China still impacts the issue. You can at least admit you were wrong on that.

[Laconian]

And if Chinese have problems about Pandas in games, can you explain me Perfect World please (which is chinese)?
img142.imageshack.us/img142/9227/panda021200ur1.jpg

It's not the fact Pandaren are pandas, it's the way in which the Pandaren are portrayed, ie they are heavily influenced by Japanese culture (samurai, etc.), not Chinese. This is what offends the Chinese.

[Worgoblin]

Eating dogs and tiger wang is ok, but seeing pandas in video games makes me FURIOUS!!!

[Falarson]

Ok, why we don't talk about what kinds of story the comic book might tell, rather than derailing the thread some more?

[Kyntam]

Eating dogs and tiger wang is ok, but seeing pandas in video games makes me FURIOUS!!!

made me lawl. I must admit.

[Laconian]

Eating dogs and tiger wang is ok, but seeing pandas in video games makes me FURIOUS!!!

Ha, you said wang.

. . .

Well, I thought it was funny. Given the arguments about China, and such.

. . .

[Cactrot]

Here's your explanation: it's Chinese, like you said.

Seriously. That's why. They're OK with using their own symbol themselves, because it "belongs" to them. When other people use it, it's not.

It's also overlapping with Japanese culture, and they're not exactly cool with that.

I don't understand why a quote from the Lead Producer of the game is so hard to understand. Yes, they could have changed their mind. If they have, we'll know about it. Until then, there's no reason to think they did and people should drop the issue.



Ok. But China still impacts the issue. You can at least admit you were wrong on that.

I'm not wrong on that. It isn't significant enough of an "impact" to matter. Notice how you still haven't handled the whole wrath of the lich king thing. It's an entire EXPANSION based on something that isn't okay in china, not just one race, and yet here we are able to play it. Any impact is negligible. The quote from the Lead Producer doesn't say what you're claiming it does. He didn't say they won't have pandaren because of China. Stop pretending that's what he said.

I'm barefoot. There's a crap sandwich across a field, but there are some thorny bushes in the field. I'm not going to walk through thorny bushes to get to that sandwich. The thorny bushes have an "impact" but it's negligible. I wasn't going to go through the field anyway even without them, because it's a crap sandwich. If I were hungry and it were a delicious turkey sandwich, I might. Do you get it? The China thing is the thorny bushes. Yea, you could say it has an impact, but it doesn't really matter, because it isn't the real reason you aren't going for that goal. It's irrelevant.

[Falarson]

I'm not wrong on that. It isn't significant enough of an "impact" to matter. Notice how you still haven't handled the whole wrath of the lich king thing. It's an entire EXPANSION based on something that isn't okay in china, not just one race, and yet here we are able to play it. Any impact is negligible. The quote from the Lead Producer doesn't say what you're claiming it does. He didn't say they won't have pandaren because of China. Stop pretending that's what he said.

I'm barefoot. There's a crap sandwich across a field, but there are some thorny bushes in the field. I'm not going to walk through thorny bushes to get to that sandwich. The thorny bushes have an "impact" but it's negligible. I wasn't going to go through the field anyway even without them, because it's a crap sandwich. If I were hungry and it were a delicious turkey sandwich, I might. Do you get it? The China thing is the thorny bushes. Yea, you could say it has an impact, but it doesn't really matter, because it isn't the real reason you aren't going for that goal. It's irrelevant.

A major percentaje of Chinese players moved to Taiwanese servers. China as a country doesn't count too much anymore to have any impact on Blizzard's decisions through their opinion. I agree with you.

[Grimmer]

I'm not wrong on that. It isn't significant enough of an "impact" to matter. Notice how you still haven't handled the whole wrath of the lich king thing. It's an entire EXPANSION based on something that isn't okay in china, not just one race, and yet here we are able to play it.

I don't understand how Wrath of the Lich King is something that isn't OK in China. Can you elaborate?

I'm barefoot. There's a crap sandwich across a field, but there are some thorny bushes in the field. I'm not going to walk through thorny bushes to get to that sandwich. The thorny bushes have an "impact" but it's negligible. I wasn't going to go through the field anyway even without them, because it's a crap sandwich. If I were hungry and it were a delicious turkey sandwich, I might. Do you get it? The China thing is the thorny bushes. Yea, you could say it has an impact, but it doesn't really matter, because it isn't the real reason you aren't going for that goal. It's irrelevant.

Then why was that the only thing he mentioned that was getting in the way? Wouldn't have just completely overstepped it altogether?

Check your PM box, btw. This isn't about the race in the expansion, this is about what is probably a comic book, so we'll take it there.

A major percentaje of Chinese players moved to Taiwanese servers. China as a country doesn't count too much anymore to have any impact on Blizzard's decisions through their opinion. I agree with you.

J. Allen Brack clearly doesn't agree. Or at the time, didn't agree. The issue with China's ability to play the game was different then. This can potentially impact Pandaren in the game, but it does not change that it was important at the time.

[Cactrot]

I don't understand how it's something that isn't OK in China. Can you elaborate?



Then why was that the only thing he mentioned that was getting in the way? Wouldn't have just completely overstepped it altogether?

Check your PM box, btw. This isn't about the race in the expansion, this is about what is probably a comic book, so we'll take it there.

Go read any of the articles on why wotlk isn't out in china. Go read about having to cover the exposed bones for undead and crap like that for china. This isn't exactly an unknown issue. It's why it isn't out there.

Because someone asked about it. Because explaining the other issues would take longer and the Q&A answers tend to be very short to allow as many people to ask questions as possible.

[Grimmer]

Go read any of the articles on why wotlk isn't out in china. Go read about having to cover the exposed bones for undead and crap like that for china. This isn't exactly an unknown issue. It's why it isn't out there.

So gore issues. Ok, I'll grant you that. But did they anticipate that at the time that the Chinese government would take that position?

It doesn't change that at the time of the writing, it was a problem. Now that they're being idiots about other things regardless, yes, there is more of a chance of it happening.

Because someone asked about it. Because explaining the other issues would take longer and the Q&A answers tend to be very short to allow as many people to ask questions as possible.

No. Someone asked "will we see Pandaren?" They didn't ask about China's problems with them.

The response was "China has problems with them" and Metzen chimed in with "but we'll have action figures and fiction."

[Mancowski]

I really hope not.

There is nothing cool about the Pandaren. If anything I hope they are an NPC race like the Tuskaar

[Falarson]

I really hope not.

There is nothing cool about the Pandaren. If anything I hope they are an NPC race like the Tuskaar

Carl Douglas disagrees.

[Cactrot]

So gore issues. Ok, I'll grant you that. But did they anticipate that at the time that the Chinese government would take that position?

It doesn't change that at the time of the writing, it was a problem. Now that they're being idiots about other things regardless, yes, there is more of a chance of it happening.



No. Someone asked "will we see Pandaren?" They didn't ask about China's problems with them.

The response was "China has problems with them" and Metzen chimed in with "but we'll have action figures and fiction."

Please read what I say, not what you want me to say. I didn't say someone asked "does china have problems with pandaren". Don't imply that I did.

I don't see how they would have the foresight to see issues with china in a hypothetical future expansion but not have the foresight to see the issues with the expansion they had been working on for a long time and was currently in the beta phase. That makes no sense at all.

As I explained in PM, the issue could just be the first that popped to mind, which is likely since they might have been dealing with that very issue right then, see the wotlk issues in China. The Q&A answers are short and quick. They aren't well thought out. They don't have time to go "what's the best answer for this." They give a quick response and move on.

So once again. Wotlk, an entire expansion, was put out despite not being released in China. One race is not going to be a deciding factor. It could be reworked the way things in the past have been, or just plain not released like wotlk.

Edit: And stop taking a off the top of their head response from a Q&A like gospel. For an example of how quick they reply and move on, and how much the answer has to be relevant to the question take a look at this.

"1:43PM Q: Can we ride in dungeons?

1:44PM A: BlizzCon exclusive: In the first content patch following Wrath, All Ground Mounts will swim in water.

1:44PM I got a huge round of applause and I totally dodge the question, sweet!"

[HiroLSX]

Hey Falarson give me my hunter's name back!

[Deleted]

China aint getting the expansions anymore anyway, Get pandaren in the game! D;

[HiroLSX]

I think they will get Cata. Though it will be odd if you ask me

[Grimmer]

I don't see how they would have the foresight to see issues with china in a hypothetical future expansion but not have the foresight to see the issues with the expansion they had been working on for a long time and was currently in the beta phase. That makes no sense at all.

This is Blizzard we're talking about.

So once again. Wotlk, an entire expansion, was put out despite not being released in China. One race is not going to be a deciding factor. It could be reworked the way things in the past have been, or just plain not released like wotlk.

Kinda like how they could've reworked all the bone/corpse enemies in Wrath, right?

Oh wait. Changing Japanese-style architecture, lore style, cultural influences, and other concepts takes too much work compared to getting rid of the bones on the Forsaken.

When someone asks "Why don't we have Pandaren?" and they answer "China has problems with them," I'm going to take that as the answer. Even if the answer is glib and rushed, it's still the closest thing we'll get to one.

You're also not recognizing the nation of China as a concept vs. individual people IN China.

Wrath of the Lich King may not be released, but many people opt to play it on a Taiwanese server instead or get it through a completely different source. These same people can still be offended by the Pandaren. And again, you'd need to rework many more factors. Stars is a Chinese guild and they killed all content a long time ago.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6205915.html And apparently the ban is complete crap anyway. There's issues going on with And9's distribution for censorship reasons, but it doesn't mean the censorship isn't happening.

Changing an entire race's base concepts is different from censoring graphic content on models.

[Cactrot]

This is Blizzard we're talking about.



Kinda like how they could've reworked all the bone/corpse enemies in Wrath, right?

Oh wait. Changing Japanese-style architecture, lore style, cultural influences, and other concepts takes too much work compared to getting rid of the bones on the Forsaken.

When someone asks "Why don't we have Pandaren?" and they answer "China has problems with them," I'm going to take that as the answer. Even if the answer is glib and rushed, it's still the closest thing we'll get to one.

You're also not recognizing the nation of China as a concept vs. individual people IN China.

Wrath of the Lich King may not be released, but many people opt to play it on a Taiwanese server instead or get it through a completely different source. These same people can still be offended by the Pandaren. And again, you'd need to rework many more factors. Stars is a Chinese guild and they killed all content a long time ago.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6205915.html And apparently the ban is complete crap anyway. There's issues going on with And9's distribution.

You can either say they have the foresight to recognize the issues with China, or they don't. Saying " they only have the foresight to recognize the issue that defends my point, but not the issue that counters it" seems a bit insane.

Yes, kind of like how they could have done that. And DIDN'T. The entire expansion is about skeletons and undead crap. Pandaran would be one race. It wasn't worth it before, and it isn't worth it now. China has become a complete non issue. They wouldn't get the expansion either way. They're 2 expansions behind.

You think people in China actually have an issue with pandas? You know what they'd do if they care? Stop playing, oh noes. I highly doubt they actually care all that much.

See my last post in regards to your "oh they gave an answer, it's gospel" way of thinking.

No, a glib and rushed answer is not necessarily the closest thing we'll get to an answer. We can still apply logic and reasoning. We can do this by looking at things like the fact that China is soon to be 2 expansions behind anyway. Or that pandaran create far larger issues, like pissing off whichever side they aren't on. Or trying to shove them into lore when their current lore is "joke mission from WC3" basically.

I'm well aware of taiwanese servers, and stars. I follow quite a bit about WoW. I'm the one who was aware of the issues with wotlk, which weren't And9s distribution. You realize that blizzard's partner for china has changed since wotlk came out right? It wasn't happening before, and it isn't happening after the change, because it isn't the issue.

The fact of the matter is that your defense is based on a 2 year old Q&A answer that is given in a matter of seconds, when China was probably on their mind due to wotlk issues, in a session where the answer to "will we get to mount in dungeons" was "mounts can swim." It's a weak argument at best. My defense relies on looking at the state of WoW, the issues trying to introduce pandaran would present to faction balance among other things, and logic and reasoning from that.

If china was an issue, why was wotlk released at all? Even if it was an issue then, it's obviously not much of an issue now since they'll be 2 expansions behind. Could it be an issue? Yes. It is an issue that matters? No, because there are far bigger issues to face. If it was going to happen, it would happen despite China. If it doesn't happen, it's because of the other issues, not because of a country 2 expansions behind.