Shaman tank cataclysm

[Deleted]

a paladin had interrupt resistance and now gets an interupt as ret (earth shock => windshear)
a paladin has movement impairing effect removaland now has a snare (frostshock)
all that´s left is to give them an offensive dispell, and paladins are the better supporter, melee dps, healer, additional being able to tank, having the offensive capabilities of shamans ripped off together with their buffs.

What??! since when do we get a slow?
Last time I checked all i saw was the new interupt which is only for Retribution and not baseline unlike Wind Shear, and dispell is limited to only holy paladins.
If I missed something please correct me.

Ontopic: Shaman will likely be able to tank 5mans but raids/heroic raids, I don't see it anywhere close at least for the first patches that he doesn't heavily outgear the dungeon.

[Deleted]

Omanley: ok, you convinced me
since i havent raiding for a long time, im not going to argue with you
i just informed myself about shamans (the only class i play for real)
although i didnt liked all the facts, in general i liked the cata changes
however, it seems that you are right and that blizz crippled shamans even more (in comparison to other classes)

according to the damage spell: what i like to see is at least a water spell for the ele rotation (the spec is not called nature & fire so...)
-.-

[blizzardcashshop]

shamans were never tanks, not in vanilla, bc or wotlk

the guy tanking in ICC is making use of heroic icc25 gear, the 30% buff and a guild that is ALL cooperating so he can kill marrowgar

his 6.5k gs isn't helping him tank any better than the UNDERGEARED tank who is wearing all ilvl 200 gear and i think they've gotten farther than the shaman tank has.

it's not really tanking when you outgear the place by a tier or more, nobody can use the upgrades and it takes a guild effort to keep aggro on you.

---------- Post added 2010-08-07 at 02:52 PM ----------

Omanley: ok, you convinced me
since i havent raiding for a long time, im not going to argue with you
i just informed myself about shamans (the only class i play for real)
although i didnt liked all the facts, in general i liked the cata changes
however, it seems that you are right and that blizz crippled shamans even more (in comparison to other classes)

according to the damage spell: what i like to see is at least a water spell for the ele rotation (the spec is not called nature & fire so...)
-.-

water = mana regen

water spring totem, water shield, vital parts of elemental and resto shaman gameplay, and resto goes even farther

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

However, I think it might be possible, when well geared

Then I guess every class in the game can tank.

[Omanley]

What??! since when do we get a slow?

http://thottbot.com/s53407
it limits them to 100% speed, normal walking speed, working against any speed increase they may use. together with increased passive walking speed i think it can be considered a slow.
cleanse is a defensive dispell, dunno about what they are supposed to get in the departs of offensive dispell

[Deleted]

Maihden Approves of Shaman-tanking.

[Deleted]

http://thottbot.com/s53407
it limits them to 100% speed, normal walking speed, working against any speed increase they may use. together with increased passive walking speed i think it can be considered a slow.
cleanse is a defensive dispell, dunno about what they are supposed to get in the departs of offensive dispell

I should have taken more serious your avatar, troll indeed.
Since when Judgement of Justice is considered a slow? you're serious? Cripling,Frostbolt,Hamstring, frostshock, earthbind, and much more that bring you lower than the normal movement speed are surely considered SLOW effects.
Judgement of Justice just prevents escaping. sprint, nitro boots, and other effects like tuskar's vitality are speed boosters which is what judgement of justice prevents, it doesn't slow people down.

Second paladins will not get any sort of offensive dispell. As stated by blue, only priests and shamans will have offensive dispell (from healing capable classes) and only those who primarily spent points in healing trees can dispell/clease magic.

[Darkist]

Just no, tanking isn't intended

[Dunee]

as stated before the biggest problem is going to be getting critimmune.. afair res wont do it anymore and defence rating no longer exists in cata.. but hey I did my share of shaman tanking lvling up my alt : ) twas quite fun but far from viable

[Deleted]

Tanking isnt for shamans!
Tanking is for classes that are lorewise tough, platewearing! Warlocks tanked once, because they had magic resistance, so what?

[superstargoddess]

I would love it if we could!

[Omanley]

I should have taken more serious your avatar, troll indeed.
Since when Judgement of Justice is considered a slow? you're serious? Cripling,Frostbolt,Hamstring, frostshock, earthbind, and much more that bring you lower than the normal movement speed are surely considered SLOW effects.
Judgement of Justice just prevents escaping. sprint, nitro boots, and other effects like tuskar's vitality are speed boosters which is what judgement of justice prevents, it doesn't slow people down.

Second paladins will not get any sort of offensive dispell. As stated by blue, only priests and shamans will have offensive dispell (from healing capable classes) and only those who primarily spent points in healing trees can dispell/clease magic.

i considered judgement of justice a slow because it essentially does the same as frostshock: hindering someone from escaping. it doesn´t slow anyone down more than the 100% default walking speed, but that´s slowing nontheless, a slow with restrictions if you will.

to label someone a troll because you are restricted in your imagination and definition doesn´t make me one.

furthermore i didn´t claim paladins would get an offensive dispell, i said:"All that´s left is to give them an offensice dispell..."
I said that because, out of blizzards perspective, shaman are the offensive supporters vs paladins, the defensive ones
purge vs cleanse
windshear vs concentration aura
frostshock vs hand of freedom

[Killuhtin]

Well shammy has tanked malygos

[Phoenix_AND1]

This isnt tanking, this is overgearing content sir, and if u think u can tank, than no.
If u think tanking means +aggro and one stamina buff in talents + feral spirit on CD, than no, you are wrong.
If u want to tank, than why u dont choose tanking class, srsly I want to be a melee dps, but Im a mage, Im gonna take ma sword and hit that shit so hard, because I dont want to lvl rogue or w/e melee, thx Im "cooL", and Im gonna enchant it with berzerking it looks awesome and also I will have milions of gems with +agi thx thx.

Shamans ARE NOT supposed to TANK!

[Deleted]

i considered judgement of justice a slow because it essentially does the same as frostshock: hindering someone from escaping. it doesn´t slow anyone down more than the 100% default walking speed, but that´s slowing nontheless, a slow with restrictions if you will.

to label someone a troll because you are restricted in your imagination and definition doesn´t make me one.

furthermore i didn´t claim paladins would get an offensive dispell, i said:"All that´s left is to give them an offensice dispell..."
I said that because, out of blizzards perspective, shaman are the offensive supporters vs paladins, the defensive ones
purge vs cleanse
windshear vs concentration aura
frostshock vs hand of freedom

Judgement of Justice (AGAIN) does not do the same as frost shock.
Frostshock slows the target, judgement does not.
I labeled you a troll because you have either no sense of what each skill does, or because you deny to accept the truth, not because I am restricted at anything.

Yeah, we all know paladins are the "defensive" hybrids and shamans are the "offensive", so what's the argue here? In same logic one could say "all that's left is to give shamans a defensive dispell..." ? what's the point? it ain't gonna happen and we know it.

[Geckoo]

I leveled my shaman in TBC tanking most of the low level instances. Yeah, it was quite easy, i had 1h weapon, my shield, my frost-taunt-shock... but honestly, it was possible until you get to the 40's-50's i think ZF and ST was the limit.

Nowadays, you have the lfg tool, and you can't choose tank with shaman so btw, blizz make shamans able to choose tank until they reach lvl40 or so. Also btw if any low level shamy reads this: with enhancement gear and talents you CAN'T be healer, please, if you wanna heal, get some intelect crap.

So, shaman's tanking? yeas please, the low level alternative tank, is really great (with the lfg support), but not at higher level, only maybe as some kind of possible offtank for a strictly determinated situation.

[Deleted]

Tanking isnt for shamans!
Tanking is for classes that are lorewise tough, platewearing! Warlocks tanked once, because they had magic resistance, so what?

Yeah like bears.

[Phoenix_AND1]

Till lvl, 40's - 50's can everybody tank.

[admielke]

Hi guys,

Blizzard said that there will be no tanking in cataclysm...

However, I think it might be possible, when well geared

It was possible in vanilla, in bc and it is still possible in wotlk, however it was getting much harder
but when i look at the talents and abilities, i think it might get a little easier in cata instead

and blizz already said that shamans are nearly finished

The tanking talents:

toughness: 10% more stamina
shamanistic rage: 30% less dmg
mahlstrom weapon: some instant heals
feral spirits: heal on attack
unleashed rage: 9 expertise is important for tanking

spark of life: 15% more received healing, 6% more self heal
ancestral resolve: situational 10% dmg reduction
focused insight: less healing cost (since heals costs a lot and you will probably spamming frostshock) and awesome 30% increased healing

with new mental quickness: 50% spell power instead 30%

The tanking abilites:

rockbiter weapon: 30% more threat, 5% dmg reduction
unleash weapon: 5s taunt, only 15s cd (yeah shamans finally got taunt)
greater healing wave: since i think there wont be much mana probs later, you have higher heal with it than healing wave
frost shock: high threat
shield of stoneclaw totem
block and parry baseline

Assumption:

Greater healing wave: 10 000 heal
with spark of life and focused insight active + mahlstrom: instant 15847 (nearly 60% increased heal)

also think that shamans will have higher stamina than now (as all classes will have stamina like dd plate)

Possible problems:

No crit immune talent: is it still possible to get the 6% reduction from defense?
No vengeance: will he still do enough dmg to keep aggro?
less armor
difficult to get items for tanking (no tanking gear for mail)
lightning shield has to be refreshed more often
massive dmg loss w/o windfury weapon

Talent build:

wowtal with this after end slash: #k=hFvBLGM_.9sm.shaman

What do you think?

lg Iseratho

Edit:

what do you think of him as caster tank as elemental?
(no much explanation needed i guess)

Warlock tanking

Metamorphosis: If they wanted to make its defensive part true it would be reducing a percentage of damage instead of an armor increase. Also Metamorphosis has a -6% chance to be critically hit by melee which is a tank only thing.

Current Talents that are Defensive: (NON-CATACLYSM TALENTS)
Demonic Resilience: Reduces the chance you'll be critically hit by melee and spells by 3% and reduces all damage your summoned demon takes by 15%.
Soul Link: When active, 20% of all damage taken by the caster is taken by your Imp, Voidwalker, Succubus, Felhunter, Felguard, or enslaved demon instead. That damage cannot be prevented. Lasts as long as the demon is active and controlled.
Master Demonologist: Grants both the Warlock and the summoned demon an effect as long as that demon is active. Imp - Increases your Fire damage by 5%, and increases the critical effect chance of your Fire spells by 5%. Voidwalker - Reduces Physical damage taken by 10%. Succubus - Increases your Shadow damage by 5%, and increases the critical effect chance of your Shadow spells by 5%. Felhunter - Reduces all spell damage taken by 10%. Felguard - Increases all damage done by 5%, and reduces all damage taken by 5%.
Molten Skin: Reduces all damage taken by 6%.

Suggestion for a Warlock tank: (BEFORE I KNEW CATACLYSM CHANGES)
Have 2 different Metamorphosis forms. Both are forms and not on a timer. Scale back talents and add in Demonstone (like Spellstone and Firestone) talen which increases armor and converts spell power into dodge. Metamorphosis: Bulwark (tank form which reduces all damage done by about 60%) requires a Voidwalker and having a Demonstone attached. Metamorphosis: Havoc (damage form) requires one of the other and a Felguard. Basically you dive into your pet (Voidwalker or Felguard) bursting away its weakness and revealing the metamorphosis. Your body is a ghost behind you (that's unable to be targeted and unable to be killed) which is used from Lifetap and works with Soul Link. Your body can only be healed by only your already healing spells such as Drain Life. When it's at 100% it activates Soul Link transfers 20% of damage taken by the metamorphosis to the ghost and when the ghost hits 5% health or goes below the effect ends. All talents that effect the Voidwalker and not "summoned demon" will effect your Metamorphosis forms. In this case Demonic Brutality, Fel Vitality, Unholy Power, Mana Feed which is reversed and you use your ghost's mana for spells and Life Tap is used for gaining mana back damaging your ghost and reducing time on Soul Link, Master Demonologist, and Demonic Empowerment which only Felguard and Voidwalker works with the respected Metamorphosis. The tank would have a total of like 700% armor, -6% to be critically hit by melee, -10% physical damage taken, -6% damage taken (Molten Skin), and Soul Link reducing damage taken by 20% for a couple of seconds.


EDIT: Shamans have a high threat spell -- so do Warlocks (Searing Pain).

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Tanking 5 mans as an ele shammy is fine enough for me, as I already do it and it's fun as hell. But to do it in a raid, no thank you.