Blizz can't even balance around 3v3. Now 15v15? GG

[Land Hoe]

This.

I'm assuming you're making fun of my math? Please explain.

[Vampyrr]

I'm assuming you're making fun of my math? Please explain.

I think he is just making fun of you being an idiot

[Land Hoe]

It didnt cause massive nerfs prebc when all there were were premades anyways and it wont in cata stop with the doom and gloom

Premades were based on the reliance of leadership/vent and skill over class. The fact that it will be rated will change EVERYONES mindset who plans to be serious. ALSO, the fact that it will in a sense be PREMADE vs PREMADE instead of the current and past PREMADE vs PUG LOLAUTOWIN GG.

[kosuko]

prolly has been mentioned already... but i just know im gonna try to run a all rogue WSG

[Land Hoe]

I think he is just making fun of you being an idiot

You must be a top notch contractor. Do they call you Captain Constructive? IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BEING CONSTRUCTIVE AT ALL RIGHT NOW. HAHAHAHAH

[Daez]

There are things with your post that I disagree with.
1. Theorycrafting a statement such as that is hilarious. Especially since it's not even close to the expansion yet and we have no way to prove this will be true.

Other than Blizzard stating that is EXACTLY what they intented to do and all the gear that is being released so far reflecting that? Nah, no way at all. I must be imagining it!

2. Right now, BG's mean nothing. They are simply ways to get honor. It's the "who cares just queue IDC if we lose" mentality (excluding premades (which even then are VERY casual except for a VERY small percent of them)). When they become RATED, people will get A LOT more serious about it, and try to discover new class compositions that give them the BEST chance of winning.

You mean like EVERY raid stacks those that do the most dps other than a few classes needed for additional buffs? I mean honestly, its not like every raid isn't composed of 10 rogues 10 mages and some support classes, healers and tanks. You see the problem with your theory is that people tend to play what they want, and those people already get spots in raids which you could argue are also serious business. The lack of certain classes will always play the largest role in trying to compose 15+ combos. It isn't going to happen. Sure, there will be the really HARDCORE teams that just have to have the perfect combo, but I'd say a good 90% of teams will take whoever the hell shows up and make a go of it.

3. I don't know what you were saying here. I don't think it was relevant.

You don't know the entire set up of ranked BGs because "it was [i]relevant" and yet you are going to post against my post. In ranked BGs you CAN NOT lose points which means simply participating will get you gear (since most people PvP for gear they will be more content with a loss than they are now in arenas where you lose rating). Ratings are being taken off of gear allowing people to lose and still wear/obtain gear.

4. Show bluepost. There is a 95% chance you left out pertinent information or you have misinterpreted what blizzard said. This causes false facts to spread and is the main problem with this forum.

You seem to be the one with reading comprehension issues here. Apparently, you are to lazy to look up what was said about rated BGs and now want me to do that work for you. Blizzard stated that they are removing rating from items allowing you get items slower if you lose. They are going to use rating for special mounts, special items and special titles. Go do the research for yourself.

[Kesia]

Do you have to get all 15 people together for a BG? Or could you (for example) have a group of like 4 friends queue and be merged with a group of 6 and a group of 5?

[Daez]

prolly has been mentioned already... but i just know im gonna try to run a all rogue WSG

Stun lock is getting nerfed. Most current rogue players couldn't win without stunlock if they tried. So, good luck with that. When rogues start fighting targets that actually get to fight back they might not be to thrilled.

[Land Hoe]

Other than Blizzard stating that is EXACTLY what they intented to do and all the gear that is being released so far reflecting that? Nah, no way at all. I must be imagining it!



You mean like EVERY raid stacks those that do the most dps other than a few classes needed for additional buffs? I mean honestly, its not like every raid isn't composed of 10 rogues 10 mages and some support classes, healers and tanks. You see the problem with your theory is that people tend to play what they want, and those people already get spots in raids which you could argue are also serious business. The lack of certain classes will always play the largest role in trying to compose 15+ combos. It isn't going to happen. Sure, there will be the really HARDCORE teams that just have to have the perfect combo, but I'd say a good 90% of teams will take whoever the hell shows up and make a go of it.



You don't know the entire set up of ranked BGs because "it was [i]relevant" and yet you are going to post against my post. In ranked BGs you CAN NOT lose points which means simply participating will get you gear (since most people PvP for gear they will be more content with a loss than they are now in arenas where you lose rating). Ratings are being taken off of gear allowing people to lose and still wear/obtain gear.



You seem to be the one with reading comprehension issues here. Apparently, you are to lazy to look up what was said about rated BGs and now want me to do that work for you. Blizzard stated that they are removing rating from items allowing you get items slower if you lose. They are going to use rating for special mounts, special items and special titles. Go do the research for yourself.

Like, once again you are completely wrong with everything you said. However, this time I'm 100% sure you are actually stupid and I have no desire to combat with a moron.

[Daez]

Do you have to get all 15 people together for a BG? Or could you (for example) have a group of like 4 friends queue and be merged with a group of 6 and a group of 5?

It is a completely preformed group. You have to preform then queue. All BGs will require 10-15 people (AV and the other one) are going form 40 people to 15 people.

[Gildian]

Any combo of any class and any spec providing they all work together will be "OP"

[Daez]

Like, once again you are completely wrong with everything you said. However, this time I'm 100% sure you are actually stupid and I have no desire to combat with a moron.

See that 3156 posts by my name? See that Feb 2008 by my name? It means I've been lurking here, reading here and posting here for 2 years over 3100 times, and in that time I've read quite a bit. I assume you being to damn lazy to go through the logs of what blues have said about rated BGs is just stupidity on your part, and since you can't admit your own stupidity you need to insult me instead. However, I'm right on this topic. You are wrong. Anyone that has done any research (including reading the front page of MMO Champion for the last year) knows how wrong you really are. Enjoy your posting and instulting of people that have been around longer than you have though...most of us can take it.

[Gildian]

Didn't they also say something about how the rating is based more on your own performance as well? So if you do well it doesn't really mean anything to the other guys?

[Land Hoe]

See that 3156 posts by my name? See that Feb 2008 by my name? It means I've been lurking here, reading here and posting here for 2 years over 3100 times, and in that time I've read quite a bit. I assume you being to damn lazy to go through the logs of what blues have said about rated BGs is just stupidity on your part, and since you can't admit your own stupidity you need to insult me instead. However, I'm right on this topic. You are wrong. Anyone that has done any research (including reading the front page of MMO Champion for the last year) knows how wrong you really are. Enjoy your posting and instulting of people that have been around longer than you have though...most of us can take it.

I didn't even finish reading this because I heard that the more posts you have, the smarter you are. This is funny because it's not true at all. Sometimes I wish I could brag about my 3000+ posts on MMO-CHAMPION, then I realized that maybe it's a serious condition. Maybe you need to constantly post on mmo-champion to sustain your life. I then thank Jesus that I don't have this condition and donate to your charity. It's funny because after that setup, I can call you a charity case. Which may not insult you immediately, but you'll feel it over time.

EDIT: Also, learn the definition of lurking.

EDIT2: Also, let me refer back to one of my original points: There is a good chance that "you have misinterpreted what blizzard said. This causes false facts to spread and is the main problem with this forum."

[Sinistra]

Not really, they don't have any silence(boomkin fail silence in cata) and druids are very vulnerable to fear.

Oh hi http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=78675/solar-beam .

[Stanton Biston]

I remember running teams in early vanilla while I was grinding for GM. The only thing I ever really cared about for WSG was having a priest and a tank. The big factor in AB was heals and ninjas.

But ultimately, no amount of class being balanced this way or that really counters the ability to consistently set up 9v5 counters in basin. Or the crazy shit we used to do in WSG.

Seriously, if you're going to complain about rated BGs, at least complain about the fact that evenly matched WSG teams might not ever score in 25 minutes. Especially now that druids are not the FCs they used to be. That's my greatest concern- 25 minutes of hard pvping for no reward (beyond menial hk honor).

[Cilraaz]

Like, once again you are completely wrong with everything you said. However, this time I'm 100% sure you are actually stupid and I have no desire to combat with a moron.

Except for the little part about Daez actually being right. Oops...

[BobAwesome]

I didn't even finish reading this because I heard that the more posts you have, the smarter you are. This is funny because it's not true at all.

EDIT: Also, learn the definition of lurking.

EDIT2: Also, let me refer back to one of my original points: There is a good chance that "you have misinterpreted what blizzard said. This causes false facts to spread and is the main problem with this forum."

Like the tard you are, you proved his point.

[Deleted]

Rated BG != Arena

At the end of the day, the impact of one class in larger groups is minimal compared to team play objectives. There may be compositional advantages in very specific objectives of specific BGs. But overall, there are no disadvantaged classes in BGs.

Think of it like this: 1v1 dk vs moonkin. The moonkin is going down guaranteed 4/5 times minimum. What would you need to change to make the moonkin viable against a dk...a LOT. As you increase the number of group slots available, the impact of any one class becomes much smaller because even if they have a tactical advantage in some or many situations, it will not be enough of an advantage to overcome team play failures and ensure a win.

In other words, balancing actually gets EASIER as the scale of a group increases, especially as the context is not simply one of destroy the other team as fast and as efficiently as possible as it is in arena.

Also, if the opposite were true (balancing was more difficult with larger groups), you would see consistent compositional advantages even in PvE (particularly 25-man) where the environment is not even changing from instance to instance. This is not the case since in almost all encounters its the players not the class which determines the result. In PvP, you cannot even guarantee who you will be fighting and therefore the exact nature of the encounter. How can any single BG composition be optimal in all situations or even for specific BGs?

<rant>

Arena should never have existed in this game in the current form. It is played by the smallest minority of any activity in the game and yet ultimately causes the largest impact on the entire game in the form of class changes and homogenization. This has a big impact on available playstyles in say PvE which is completely and utterly unrelated. It is or was PvE players' biggest bug-bear (of course now there's insane badge gear, LFD tool and crappy post-Ulduar content distribution to legitimately moan about!).

</rant>

[Therastos]

The strength of most arena compos is their ability to set up a kill. That is accomplished by certain synergy in the team, such as having multiple forms of CC not sharing diminishing returns, or ability to controllably set up a spike of burst damage. In deathmatch the first kill generally means victory. However, larger team-size and less serious consequences of single death reduce the impact of such synergy. This allows teams to be much more flexible, since such a great synergy will not be required.

I'd also like to point out that things that can score a win in arenas have reduced effect in battlegrounds: enhancement shaman in beast cleave might be very hard to stop when wolves are up, but battlegrounds don't end after the first kill, and the shaman is then vulnerable. That causes strong cooldowns to be closer to their value in PvE, making balancing more simple. Likewise, some specs suffer in arena, but are much more viable fighting in open area/trying to complete objectives. I don't think tank-specced ferals geared for high survivability can be viable in arena, but they most definitely make excellent flag carriers.

That doesn't mean the team composition can be completely ignored: You probably can't manage with 15 warriors, tank-specced players will probably be favorable to carry the flag, and you are likely to need several healers to be competitive. However, once basic requirements are met, the spec and class (provided it is a PvP-focused spec) don't matter a great deal.