Battle of the Badasses (Bracket Finals): Arthas Menethil vs. Grom Hellscream

[Zoma]

How are we supposed to know what Grom's abilities are like w/o the blood curse? He's been on the stuff his whole life.

[Phenomina]

How are we supposed to know what Grom's abilities are like w/o the blood curse? He's been on the stuff his whole life.

Good question... we know the " stuff " greatly increases everything about him, however he doesn't get any of his boost for this fight.

that is entirely why I picked Arthas to win. If Grom was permitted to be bloodcursed I would have picked him as the winner. Opinions change based on the rules.

[D13H4RD]

Grom!

[Deleted]

How are we supposed to know what Grom's abilities are like w/o the blood curse? He's been on the stuff his whole life.

Well, he did take over the Warsong clan, and was well known for his ferocity when the whole clan was considered a bunch of raving lunatics.

[Toby John Kenobi]

I gonna go with Grom. Even though Arthas is very Powerful, Grom has got the rage to handle him!

[Zoma]

Trying to measure Grom w/o blood curse is like measuring DK Arthas w/o frostmourne, or Archimonde w/o Sargeras's power, or Medivh w/o the powers of Guardian. We don't know their powers w/o those stuff, so hard to compare.

Regardless of OP, I'm voting based on Grom w/ curse, because it is the only Grom we know.

[Phenomina]

Trying to measure Grom w/o blood curse is like measuring DK Arthas w/o frostmourne, or Archimonde w/o Sargeras's power, or Medivh w/o the powers of Guardian. We don't know their powers w/o those stuff, so hard to compare.

Regardless of OP, I'm voting based on Grom w/ curse, because it is the only Grom we know.

Then why not vote for Arthas as the Lich King? Screw the OP's post! I suppose we can just change the rules as we please right... ? * cheers *

[archelios]

The whole thing about Arthas beating Illidan is such crap. Yes, Arthas did beat him in a fight, but this was a major mistake of Blizzard's part. Illidan had the skull of Gul'dan and the Eye of Sargaeras, while Arthas was weakened. Blizzard should either have had Arthas start to lose and then flee, or just never had them fight at all.

[Deleted]

The whole thing about Arthas beating Illidan is such crap. Yes, Arthas did beat him in a fight, but this was a major mistake of Blizzard's part. Illidan had the skull of Gul'dan and the Eye of Sargaeras, while Arthas was weakened. Blizzard should either have had Arthas start to lose and then flee, or just never had them fight at all.

Arthas was empowered by most of the Lich King's remaining power. He wasn't weakened.

[Zoma]

Then why not vote for Arthas as the Lich King? Screw the OP's post! I suppose we can just change the rules as we please right... ? * cheers *

Unlike Grom w/o blood curse, we DO know what Arthas the Death Knight can do, and is therefore measurable.

[Wildberry]

The whole thing about Arthas beating Illidan is such crap. Yes, Arthas did beat him in a fight, but this was a major mistake of Blizzard's part. Illidan had the skull of Gul'dan and the Eye of Sargaeras, while Arthas was weakened. Blizzard should either have had Arthas start to lose and then flee, or just never had them fight at all.

he only had the Skull of Gul'Dan. The Eye of Sargeras was destroyed when Maeiv intervened during his first attempt to destroy the frozen throne

[Phenomina]

Unlike Grom w/o blood curse, we DO know what Arthas the Death Knight can do, and is therefore measurable.

Still comparing Bloodcursed Grom to Death Knight Arthas is incorrect on your part and skews the poll results. Try harder to follow the rules next time.

[Buffwhite]

OK, you all still seem to think the fight between Grom and Mannoroth was a draw (at best even?). The whole dynamite strapped to the chest thing. Not a good comparison. Mannoroth didn't strap anything on for a "just in case" scenario. This is just a powerful pit lord's physiology. The powerful ones blow up when they die. Hint: when they die (aka when they have already been defeated and the battle is over). And yes the castle argument is very valid. The castle being held in the air by the warlock's power will fall (unbeknownst to the hero) when the warlock dies since he is not there to keep it afloat any longer. Mannoroth's chest burst open when he was defeated/killed and his life essensce poured out and incinerated Grom. It's a situational similarity with the same basic principles. The hero is in a tight spot after the battle is over and cannot escape an unavoidable death because of a geographical circumstance. If anything the hero (and Grom) are victims of their own victory. Not their defeat (inb4 Grom owned himself :/ ).

If I am of a different race (say one that has explosive internal organs) and you and I fight, then you mean to tell me if I get my ass kicked all up and down the street and finally keel over dead at your hand after a vicious beating, that when I explode killing you because my entrails have been strewn across the sidewalk that it's a "draw" or I defeated you? LMFAO, that might be the funniest thing I've heard all day. History never describes such occurences as a "defeat" unless they were intentional and even then it's considered disrespectful to the victor. Either way, Mannoroth's explosion was not intentional. Blizzard says he died undefeated. He died undefeated.

Your whole Manny died, blew up and defeated Grom idea is like me saying I got shot in the head, fell over dead and defeated the puppy that I squished under my dead body's weight. Laughable and pathetic.

[Zoma]

Still comparing Bloodcursed Grom to Death Knight Arthas is incorrect on your part and skews the poll results. Try harder to follow the rules next time.

Fine. I think Grom can curb stomp Arthas without the need for Blood Curse. Happy?

[Verazh]

Trying to measure Grom w/o blood curse is like measuring DK Arthas w/o frostmourne, or Archimonde w/o Sargeras's power, or Medivh w/o the powers of Guardian. We don't know their powers w/o those stuff, so hard to compare.

Regardless of OP, I'm voting based on Grom w/ curse, because it is the only Grom we know.

Same. I see no reason as to why Nuke said it was Grom w/o Bloodcurse.

[Phenomina]

Fine. I think Grom can curb stomp Arthas without the need for Blood Curse. Happy?

No. Mostly because your clearly lying as you stated you had no idea what Grom was capable of without the curse. What is the phrase they say... Swing and a miss?

Your whole Manny died, blew up and defeated Grom idea is like me saying I got shot in the head, fell over dead and defeated the puppy that I squished under my dead body's weight. Laughable and pathetic.

You keep relying on these third party things killing people.

If I am of a different race (say one that has explosive internal organs) and you and I fight, then you mean to tell me if I get my ass kicked all up and down the street and finally keel over dead at your hand after a vicious beating, that when I explode killing you because my entrails have been strewn across the sidewalk that it's a "draw" or I defeated you? LMFAO,

Technically Yes... I'd consider both parties losers. However in your example what is with the ass kiked up and down the street? We are talking about a fight that involved 1 hit.... hardly a vicious beating.

Grom hit Manny once and Manny blew Grom up once... they both then died.

---------- Post added 2010-09-01 at 05:55 AM ----------

Same. I see no reason as to why Nuke said it was Grom w/o Bloodcurse.

Too make it fair. Grom with the bloodlust has proven to be able to kill Demi-Gods.... since there are none equal to Demi-gods in the competion it would hardly be fair to the others.

[Buffwhite]

For all intents and purposes, this "Battle of the Badasses" exists outside the realm of reality. It would have to be some type of time manipulating magic user that set the tournament up and some of the heroes would have to be resurrected. Grom could very well have the blood curse and still have the title "Reedeemer of the Orcs" if the event already happened, but he went back in time to the point where Grom was still under the effects. He would have to specify though.

[Wildberry]

No. Mostly because your clearly lying as you stated you had no idea what Grom was capable of without the curse. What is the phrase they say... Swing and a miss?



You keep relying on these third party things killing people.



Technically Yes... I'd consider both parties losers. However in your example what is with the ass kiked up and down the street? We are talking about a fight that involved 1 hit.... hardly a vicious beating.

Grom hit Manny once and Manny blew Grom up once... they both then died.

---------- Post added 2010-09-01 at 05:55 AM ----------



Too make it fair. Grom with the bloodlust has proven to be able to kill Demi-Gods.... since there are none equal to Demi-gods in the competion it would hardly be fair to the others.

I would say it was rather vicious if he managed to kill the king of the pit lords in one hit.

and If nuke was interested in fairness, he wouldn't let arthas have frostmourne, nor would he put malfurion thrall or medivh in this competition.

[Zoma]

No. Mostly because your clearly lying as you stated you had no idea what Grom was capable of without the curse. What is the phrase they say... Swing and a miss?

There is no current lore. I'm working on the assumption that Knaak will write a book about Grom before the Blood Curse.

---------- Post added 2010-08-31 at 11:01 PM ----------

I would say it was rather vicious if he managed to kill the king of the pit lords in one hit.

and If nuke was interested in fairness, he wouldn't let arthas have frostmourne, nor would he put malfurion thrall or medivh in this competition.

At least he left Broxigar out, then even Medivh would piss himself.

[Phenomina]

For all intents and purposes, this "Battle of the Badasses" exists outside the realm of reality. It would have to be some type of time manipulating magic user that set the tournament up and some of the heroes would have to be resurrected. Grom could very well have the blood curse and still have the title "Reedeemer of the Orcs" if the event already happened, but he went back in time to the point where Grom was still under the effects. He would have to specify though.

He did specify. No Bloodcurse Grom.

I would say it was rather vicious if he managed to kill the king of the pit lords in one hit.

and If nuke was interested in fairness, he wouldn't let arthas have frostmourne, nor would he put malfurion thrall or medivh in this competition.

I agree it was a vicious kick ass hit and very impressive, the end result was still him dying though.

Thrall is no where near Demi-god status, clearly the Horde banner seems to boost Horde heroes power levels by 9000 for you.

I believe nuke did try to be fair. Medivh could probably have sat this tourn out.