Inscription Guild Achieve excessive?

[Penguirrel]

I understand this is a preliminary number for a beta for just showing how the guild achieves will work and all. However, the current 25,000 glyphs requirement for the achieve "Pen is Mightier" seems a little too obscene. Currently on Wowhead there are 345 glyphs that are craftable or were craftable at a time. So roughly divided amongst 10 classes as a guesstimate leaves 35 glyphs per person to fully glyph them in all slots as glyphs are no longer reconsumable (you get one and that's all you'll ever need). 25,000/35=714, which means your guild will be responsible for glyphing to the max 714 characters. I'm sorry but seems like waaaay too much. All the other profession guild achievements seem reasonable as long term effects of being a guild such as: making consumables for raids, crafting gear at each level when raids are released (think crafting items with frozen orbs, then later with runed orbs, then crusader...), or fishing for a long time. But making glyphs has a definitive end point. You learn your 35 glyphs and you're done after which you are left to either attempt to AH the extra, store them somewhere, or just vendor them. This achieve makes me think that one guild trying to get this achieve will throw money at it and then tank the glyph market with surplus glyphs because they aren't making them to sell for a profit so they can always undercut down to close to vendor cost.

My only hope is that one of two things happen: the number is reduced OR Vanishing Powder and it's other variant is added to the achieve. Reducing the number obviously will make it more attemptable but moreover adding the craftable powder to the achieve means there is a consumable component to the equation and a guild may be able to achieve the goal over an extended period of time from normal operations as a guild.

[Gilian]

Does it give a reward? Doesn't say so on the mainpage.

It's just an achievement so not must have. It seems a bit too much but over time you will get there anyway.

[Penguirrel]

Any achieve isn't really a must have but all the others seem to fall in line with something the guild will get in time. This one seems like a guild Feat of Strength at the moment. Fully glyphing out 714 people is just overkill.

[Devdan]

The task is to create 25000 Glyphs, not to equip charakters with them...

If you have a few people selling them in the AH or leveling the profession you get tons extra produced glpyhs.

You're thinking way too narrow here.

[Siika]

With the current glyph design it seems plausible. But with cata glyph design it seems to be too much.
Maybe it should include those new +1 skill point cards too?

[Penguirrel]

the thing is that there are already many others selling glyphs on the AH. Competition is great over an item that isn't really a consumable. By the start of Cataclysm all the level 80s on your server will already have glyphs for their toons because 4.0.1 will introduce the new glyph system. Those won't count for this achieve as it only starts when Cataclysm launches. So essentially your guild will produce glyphs for new leveling alts, people returning to the game after an extended break, or new people in general. Among those target sales groups you hope to sell your extra glyphs which will most likely be a lot. Every other scribe on the server is in the same position for selling their wares and so competition and supply is high and demand is relatively low. So prices on glyphs fall as others are pushed out of the market and will stay low as people and enter and leave the market with their extras as well. Thus all those glyphs start becoming little to worthless. Having this achieve around as it is currently stated is bad for the inscription business. All it seems to do that I can see is force completionist people in guilds to straight up pay for this achievement that wouldn't normally be gotten because no normal guild would ever get this in a standard way for probably 3-4 years.

[Sinizine]

25k glyphs basically would supply like the entire damn server. I imagine the number to be lowered. Right now it's more than the alchemy achieve, which is a bit absurd given that flasks are on of the most consumed products of a proffesion in the game.

[Kheirn]

Maybe it's supposed to be 2.5k or something similar?

[Kagdar]

Inscription is more and more a joke. I should never have given Alch to get this joke profession. I'm doomed to make glyphs at ridiculous prices when they don't sell as much as flasks. I can make scrolls that are never used. I can make off-hands that are replaced in the first tier of gear.

In Cata i'll be usefull only for low level characters.

[Aks]

Inscription is more and more a joke. I should never have given Alch to get this joke profession. I'm doomed to make glyphs at ridiculous prices when they don't sell as much as flasks. I can make scrolls that are never used. I can make off-hands that are replaced in the first tier of gear.

In Cata i'll be usefull only for low level characters.

So should I be a Scribe in Cata or not?

[Ach]

Think about it this way, three new glyph slots are being added in the form of Prime glyphs, to go with the three Major and three Minor glyph slots currently used. That's an increase of 50%. So if we just take the OPs estimate of 35 glyphs per class, increase it by 50%, we'd have 52 glyphs per class. Blizzard will add glyphs in future patches as well. Then the 25,000/52 makes it just 480 people to fully 'glyph out' to get the achievement. I know guildies with ten level 80s, so it would take just 48 such accounts to get the achievement. I just took a look at my server population, ~20k characters level 10-80. *Said in my best Dr. Evil voice* One million dollars....er, glyphs. Yes, there could potentially be demand for over 1 million glyphs on servers with 20k toons. Some servers have 30k+ characters on just one side, think about all the glyphs needed there.

Also, new alts are created daily, leveled a bit, glyphs purchased, alt are then deleted, rinse and repeat hundreds of times per day. New players join the server, make characters, buy glyphs, make alts, buy glyphs. Yes, glyphs won't be consumable like flasks and yes, demand will wane from the Cata release levels, but it will stabilize at a certain point and remain constant, giving even low population server guilds the opportunity to get the achievement over time, yes, over time. No one will say, I'm going to make 25,000 glyphs tonight to get this achievement for my guild, it will just happen, over time, maybe even after a few years for some.

[Penguirrel]

actually the prime glyphs are taking spots of some of the current major glyphs; it's gonna stay 35 per character. say there are 250 major glyphs and 94 minor glyphs; the patch is gonna change it to something like 90 minor glyphs, 125 major glyphs and 125 prime glyphs and not increasing the number.

Yes alts get made and yes people level and buy glyphs. However, on your server of 20k people probably 2k are scribes and thus the glyph market is spread out over too many guilds/toons for one to get this without throwing money into ink to get this achieve. Also, those 20k people on the server won't count the glyphs they have when Cataclysm launches so your glyph creation and sales are going to be aimed at the over 20k people in which grows very slowly and supply is very high.

[Eternal Toaster]

It's possible a lot of the numbers for the achievements are still placeholder.

[Ach]

Isn't there going to be an achievement to obtain all of the glyphs for your class? So yes, you're correct that, 20k characters won't need every glyph as they already have at least six of them, but I'd wager a lot of people will be buying every glyph they don't know in very short order. Meaning the glyph business we will very hot right at the Cata release.

More glyph recipes are added to the game periodically, so that should help out as well.

I forgot to mention in my post above, which you point out, there may very well be 2k scribes on my server and it seems like it would be very spread out, but it's not so much the number of scribes, but the number of guilds. Multiple scribes in a single guild will all add to the total glyphs created for the guild. Even if every single characters on the server was a scribe, the total demand for glyphs will be unaffected.

Now, I have a sneaking suspicion that the number of guilds in Cata will decrease, mainly because of guild leveling and the added benefits of it. So smaller guilds will combine to form larger guilds and some guilds will get very large. With the larger guilds post-Cata, comes a better chance of the guild as a whole to get the achievement naturally, without throwing money at ink.

[Penguirrel]

So really you need the number of guilds on your server. It's safe to assume you make glyphs for your guild first and then the extra get thrown to the AH. It doesn't change the fact that your guild will be the ones responsible for 714 people (way more than 1 to 3 guilds combined) getting every glyph in every slot and if not then you need more people. They could add more glyphs eventually that would help a lot but so far Blizzard has made no indication that this is the case yet. If they do it would make this number more attainable.

On the note that people will only have 6 glyphs by Cataclysm is off - 4.0.1 is introducing the change to the glyph system BEFORE Cataclysm releases and so the people who are going to fill their spellbooks with all possible glyphs more than likely will do it before Cataclysm is released for maybe 2 weeks to a month beforehand and before the glyph count will start.

[Deleted]

On the note that people will only have 6 glyphs by Cataclysm is off - 4.0.1 is introducing the change to the glyph system BEFORE Cataclysm releases and so the people who are going to fill their spellbooks with all possible glyphs more than likely will do it before Cataclysm is released for maybe 2 weeks to a month beforehand and before the glyph count will start.

Aye, that is a problem, but maybe those thousends of Goblin and worgen alts might help.