The Cat Guide - 4.3

[tangedyn]

This is off current topic and may be a repost but I could not mind any current data on my query. I know that since 4.2 FB is good again <25% and if there is signifigant time remaining on SR and Rip >25% it is also prudent.

My question is should we FB at 5 CP during Berserk? I can usually get 2 FB off during an UNGLYPHED Berserk but I run out of energy. I see you recommened going with a glyphed Berserk on the front page but what good does that do me if im already out of energy after 15 secs? Should I not be using FB during this time and just shred til my hearts content?

Hmm.. Mihir's guide doesn't go into that detail, but if you check my guide, the cutoff for using FB during berserk is at Savage Roar > 3s, Rip > 5s. This was determined by Yawning and Leafkiller using Mew.

[sarad]

isnt there an energy cutoff, too? I think (iirc) anywhere over 21 extra energy, shred's DPE is higher than FB's.

[Xenerix]

si+bs at 14/15, ps at 19/20, and 3/3 perseverance, 2/2 nurturing instinct.

Yea, we did it exactly this way and as you can see from my singature, it worked pretty well.

[tangedyn]

isnt there an energy cutoff, too? I think (iirc) anywhere over 21 extra energy, shred's DPE is higher than FB's.

Theoretically, yes, but DPE doesn't determine everything and with 4T12 you want to use finishers as often as possible.
I believe with tested not FBing over a certain amount of energy before and there was no DPS increase

[Roman]

Hey all,

I've been following this thread for a very long time and have always been able to see results and do extremely well with the info here. But lately, I've been absolutely plummeting down the meters and am not sure if everyone else is just outgearing me (which I do believe is part of the problem), if our raid's strats are very cat unfriendly, or if I'm just blatantly doing something wrong.
Armoury is: Augustus on Korgath US. (Cannot post a link yet as I've not posted frequently enough apparently)

I know I do not have the BIS: No staff (QQ). I've not been lucky with my tokens so have horrible shoulders. I have the heroic cinderweb leggins but am not sure if I should break my 4p t12 to use them.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Williee]

Is your dps decreasing or ur raid dps catching up and passing you?
I think if you got the 4 set t12, keep it. The dps you gain from it beats out the offpiece. Make sure you arent missing any huge melee buffs, that could be one of the reasons you plummeted on deepz.
Since you got the 4p, try reforging your mastery to haste/hit/exp instead. Once you get an upgrade on that staff... you'll shoot up in deepz. Goodluck on a staff/polearm drop.

[Selverein]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ustus/advanced
For anyone who'd want a direct link.

Echoing what Williee said, is it you dropping in deeps or people catching up? I've found myself in a similarly shitty situation where a lot of our casters have the 391 version of the legendary and a couple 2H melee have the axe from H Shannox cause he's definitely the first heroic boss you'll farm. I'm still stuck with Malevolance as well, regular version mind you. So yeah, multiple factors. Would need numbers or parse to comment further.

Rest of the advice is good too. There's definitely a couple places where you could shed some Mastery for more Haste. I'm not a huge fan of getting the exact Hit/Exp caps but try to stay near them as much as you can without sacrificing too much. That being said I wouldn't expect big changes from reforging, the staff upgrade will definitely do more for you.

[Tharkkun]

A lot of casters and specifically mages aren't breaking their Tier 11 4 piece until they get Tier 12 4 piece. So they may be instantly catching up as they equip 4 new pieces of gear. I'm slowly dropping in my ranks as I received pretty much all my 378 gear aside from tier in the 1st 3 weeks as leather dropped like candy for us.

I also reforged to be as close to hit/exp cap last week as I could and I felt like I had 200lb weights on my paws. I attacked so slow and my dps tanked so I went back to reforging haste this week.

[Deleted]

I sure can't tell the difference between 1sec swings and 0.94sec swings. I might just be bad, but then again I love being exp capped and close to the hit cap. Makes Rag p2 and Beth much smoother for me (with our tactics, which does include hitting the boss in the face). Now if only I could get those crits when I need them...

[SmokeyIllidan]

Week 10. The streak is over.

So I got the fire staff and now I'm wondering, what's the best glove enchant if I can't use mastery? 65 put's me with more mastery than haste, which ruins matrix procs. I'm currently using 20 agi.

[Williee]

Id say the 20 agility or even the 50 haste
gratz on staff

[MasterNewbie]

Assuming you are well-geared (which appears to be the case), 20agi ~ 77dps, 50 haste ~ 74dps on a patchwerk fight. For reference, 65mastery ~ 87dps.

[Roman]

I reforged to hit/exp cap, have spent a lot of time on dummies and did a H BOT run to practice. Doesn't feel like much of a difference but the DPS I went with was an arcane mage, rogue and frost DK...

For curiosity's sake, could people post what their specific jobs on the 7 fireland (preferrably heroic) bosses are.... For example, are they going up on Alysrazor, etc. I'm the only cat, and we infrequently have a rogue, so I feel as if some of our strats are unintentionally ignorant to classes who need to be behind the boss as much as possible..

[SmokeyIllidan]

Assuming you are well-geared (which appears to be the case), 20agi ~ 77dps, 50 haste ~ 74dps on a patchwerk fight. For reference, 65mastery ~ 87dps.

Awesome thanks.

[Williee]

H Shannox- Pew pew boss
H Beth- use to go boom 4 caves then back to cat and i dps up top
H Rhy- pew pew whichever legs r called and aoe adds
H Aly- interrupt casters and hatchling, never went up top
H Bael- pew pew boss
H Major- pew pew boss
For almost all the fights, I can shred except Majordomo when he leaps. Actually, i had a mastery build this week and i felt i outdps my haste reforge gear (same gear for both mastery/haste). Either i wasnt handling cat phase correctly when i was haste reforged, or mastery works out better for that fight.

Haste -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=16011&e=16595
^Granted that was our first time downing it, I had DI as well for that week :|
Mastery -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5693&e=6261
^This week, it felt the bleeds had a bigger effect for when the cat leaped. I know some ferals use ter charge for a free ravage but i tend to clip the fire spot left behind on the leaps.

[Sinfonia]

I reforged to hit/exp cap, have spent a lot of time on dummies and did a H BOT run to practice. Doesn't feel like much of a difference but the DPS I went with was an arcane mage, rogue and frost DK...

For curiosity's sake, could people post what their specific jobs on the 7 fireland (preferrably heroic) bosses are.... For example, are they going up on Alysrazor, etc. I'm the only cat, and we infrequently have a rogue, so I feel as if some of our strats are unintentionally ignorant to classes who need to be behind the boss as much as possible..

H:Shannox - DPS Shannox full time.
H:Rhyolith - Steer (DPS legs full time), our other cat gets to swipe spam adds.
H:Beth'tilac - Other cat and I go up top all three times.
H:Alysrazor - We're both in the interrupt rotations on both sides.
H:Baleroc - PEWPEW on the boss.
H:Majordomo - PEWPEW on the boss.
H:Rag Phase 1 - DPS the boss.
H:Rag Transition 1 - Get two stuns off, first from bear form, second using maim. DPS and maim as needed.
H:Rag Phase 2 - Get parried in front of boss (lol ), then move out to AoE Molten Elementals. Dodge engulfings/smashes, repeat.
H:Rag Transition 2 - Get two stuns off, first from bear form, second using maim. DPS my assigned side and rid it of Sons of Flame, then get on the Lava Scions.
H:Rag Phase 3 - DPS the sh#t out of the boss and dodge engulfings/smashes.
H:Rag Phase 4 - Pretend I'm a fireman.

[Djuntas]

On the matter of 391 weapon. I know the state values are very close on 378 (30 dps or some?), but Im thinking the upgraded BOE is still only slight better again? Im kinda tired of fire kitty by now aswell, its ofcourse fun and looks cool, but anyway I'll head for the upgraded BOE. Will be nice with high haste always, no worries for ragnaros trinket gearing.


9 Crit (0.05%) VS 299 Mastery (1.67)
284 Haste (2.22%)

[Xenerix]

Haste -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=16011&e=16595
^Granted that was our first time downing it, I had DI as well for that week :|
Mastery -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5693&e=6261
^This week, it felt the bleeds had a bigger effect for when the cat leaped. I know some ferals use ter charge for a free ravage but i tend to clip the fire spot left behind on the leaps.

I was thinking about this as well. Probably gonna try heavy mastery reforge this week as well(since I don't have any new items). I was kinda suprised when I looked at WoL 1st place on hc Baleroc and Staghelm as feral and saw mastery reforge. I mean at least on static fights should be haste slightly ahead but when you think about it, these encounters are not so static at all, for example the links on Baleroc or even the short Staghelm's human forms when he casts seeds, you will sit few moments on 100 energy with haste reforge, probably even with mastery reforge but not so long and the bleeds are hitting harder in these moments.

---------- Post added 2011-09-01 at 02:23 PM ----------

So, I am constantly thinking about reforging options we currently have so I decided to spare some time checking the WoL and see which reforging option wins the encounters. Please don't take this as something you need to follow, it's just the statistics, nothing more and it is definitelly NOT objective but since it took some time, somebody might be interested in these informations.

I skipped Rhyolith because it is all about how much we are willing to aoe or what role do we have on that fight. As for Alysrazor, I considered only people who didn't fly in any part of encounter and who didn't tank the adds (many of "cat spec" have like 20% of their dmg by Maul and bear Mangle). Except Occu'thar and Ragnaros (not enought samples) it's all heroic 25man content, the first 3 places on each encounter.

And the last thing, I decided to show only reforging, not the player's nicks for obvious reasons.

Occu'thar
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit

Shannox HC
1) Um, kinda weird log so skipping it
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
4) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Beth'tilac HC
1) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Alysrazor HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Baleroc HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Majordomo Staghelm HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit

Ragnaros normal
1) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
2) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit



The final results
most 1st places:
hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit (4x)
hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery (3x)

most top3 places:
hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery (11x)
hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit (6x)
hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit (4x)

As far as I remember, most players had similar gear, something around 385 - 388 ilvl with 391 weapon. As for trinkets, in 99% it was combination of APS/Hungerer/Matrix. Data were taken on 1.8.2011 and it is obvious that they can change literally anytime so please don't write I have something wrong there, it's quite possible.

[MasterNewbie]

I am willing to wager that mastery builds are topping H-Staghelm is because active bleeds retain the % damage buff after you've lost it yourself. I don't know what kind of uptime there generally is for it, but that's my theory. Last I checked, the 10th parser for H-Staghelm was a haste build.

[axxey]

Problem with the very top of the top is always the buff stacking above and beyond the normal available.

Baleroc #1 for example has dark intent, tricks of the trade, unholy frenzy lined up with every berserk etc.

Other fights dependant on how bad your other raid members/makeup are at AoE more than how far above average they personally are, leaving what portion of the pie for them to AoE.