Cataclysm Beta - Build 13221

[diox990]

deathwing doesn't look badass :S... he looks cute !

[Duster505]

Quit whining about nerfs and buffs. Numbers are never final in a beta.

It's a *beta*. That's what they do - it's called balancing and tweaking numbers to new stats and encounters.

What holy palas have been pointing out is that it has NOTHING to do with numbers. It has to do with how the AOE healing mecanics are applied. These spells are not right atm and BLizzard is refusing to admit the obvious. And now.. instead of actually giving paladin a relyable AOE healing spells for all content ingame... they just buff the old single target spells and leave the AOE spells unchange on 30 sec cd with 3k healing with narrow cone (LOD - also in 5 mans !) and nerf radiance without cause even only up for 30 sec - it heals 75% of the entire healing of holy palas in 25 mans.

Its not the numbers that are wrong. - unless you blatantly accept the obvious that a healing spell that does 3k per person every 30 sec in 5 mans does 5 times less than the same spell you use in 25 man. Its same mana cost... same cd... Everyone can see the issues. Thats why I dont even spec into that talent for my 5 man runs. And its the last talent of the entire tree. Two last tiers of Holy pala trees are just not worth spending points on.

[Brauun]

Grand Crusader is still there...not sure what you're talking about.

Hahah, damn I read it all wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

[duraz0rz]

It sounds to me they are overbuffing paladins abit with single target heals to make up the problems in beta so far. Sadly they are not taking the right aproch on fixing the issues... And the issues are the mecanics and cd of the AOE holy paladin spells.
Two AOE heals - both with long cd - both with more limited range than any other healing spells - both based on position - and BOTH with single flat heal and no mecanics for number of players it hits.

THis is the issue that BLizzard will NEVER be able to balance. Or how on earth are you gonna balance something that heals 25 ppl in 25 man but does 5 times less in 5 man instances ? You can not. Light of dawn now heals for 2-4k (depending on glypth) every 20- 30 sec. Its useless in 5 mans and will continue to be so while with so narrow healing output. Still - its the 31 point talent. And totally and utterly useless. I have been playing my pala both in beta and live without going into the last two tiers of the holy spec and I feel absolutly no diffrence in my abilites as a healer. After all.. the last 11 points in Holy talent tree have very little to do with the ablity for a paladin to heal. SPecially in 5 and 10 man content of the game..

Thank god you dont have to spec into last tier of the spec. Its enough to just spend 31 point in it. But.. what does it tell us about the Paladin holy talent tree and the 2 last tiers ? Absolutly useless from a healing perspective. Totally and utterly.

What is needed now is BALANCE. BLizzard is not solving anything atm by leaving the aoe healing spells for palas either totally op - or totally useless with 30 sec cd... Real fix is needed and its needed very soon. We could be in for some tradig issues in the next few months if this goes on like this. Cause there is absolutly no way to balance this horror of healing mecanic atm.

If you dont belive me... 1 aoe healing spell does 75% of the healing in 25 man raid.... It has 30 sec cd... The range diminishing return will not solve anything cause ppl will just stack up more to get the huge numbers. In 10 man the same spell has much less use (remember same areas so diminishing return reduces the SAME numbers there).

But hey... these are the same ppl that gave us Ret paladin in WOTLK .. and Death knight with tank and dmg in all talent trees. The thing is... most ppl could have told them it would be impossible to balance from 2v2 PVP up to 25 man PVE raiding. THey did not listen. And sadly they are not gonna listen now by the looks of things. But all have seen long long time ago its totally impossible to balance these AOE healing effects.

You are exaggerating things a bit, I think. Remember that Blizzard stated that they wanted us to be VIABLE for raid healing, not necessarily be awesome at it and replace a Druid or Priest. Light of Dawn and Holy Radiance are great spells for AoE damage, but we also have a better Holy Shock and WoG to make single-target healing less painful and more efficient. Most of the AoE damage is very predictable, so using LoD and HR shouldn't be a problem if you can anticipate when to use it, otherwise our heals will suffice at topping someone off.

From watching the videos, tank damage is still significant, but definitely less spiky. There's no need to spam tanks as much as we have been doing in WOTLK. We can take a bit of time from healing the tank to touch up the raid a bit if we needed to. And since ToR helps our HP generation, more instant WoG is nice for that random raid member that decides to stand in the fire and take more damage.

The last two tiers aren't terribly useless as far as holy goes. Tower of Radiance is great for HP generation, which less us use WoG more. Light of Dawn, while terribly situational, is still very useful. Blessed Life, although buffed considerably, is still a PvP talent, although some spells like Marrowgar's Bonestorm do seem to proc it (from reading on EJ).

But I guess I can't really say anything, since I'm not in the beta and all.

[Ambivalent]

I'm going to assume you don't play a paladin on Beta. We're probably hands down the worst healers, we need a lot of changes. I'm sad no changes to Light of Dawn have been made, as it's a talent that needs a lot of overhaul. (A Base % and maybe a range boost) to make it any good, and possibly a shorter cooldown.

Also, your "10 people to take a holy paladin down" claim is pretty dumb. Two people can take a holy paladin down if they actually interrupt. It's the same thing with all healers ATM, if they know how to play you wont be able to take them down easily.

that would be all fine and dandy if the paladin needed to cast anything anymore which they don't. they can just holy shock and word of glory to full health no problem anytime they get remotely low. i'm on top of my kicks as a rogue but holy pallies are ridiculous right now. they really do take a mass of people to take down.

[Duster505]

You are exaggerating things a bit, I think. Remember that Blizzard stated that they wanted us to be VIABLE for raid healing, not necessarily be awesome at it and replace a Druid or Priest. Light of Dawn and Holy Radiance are great spells for AoE damage, but we also have a better Holy Shock and WoG to make single-target healing less painful and more efficient. Most of the AoE damage is very predictable, so using LoD and HR shouldn't be a problem if you can anticipate when to use it, otherwise our heals will suffice at topping someone off.

From watching the videos, tank damage is still significant, but definitely less spiky. There's no need to spam tanks as much as we have been doing in WOTLK. We can take a bit of time from healing the tank to touch up the raid a bit if we needed to. And since ToR helps our HP generation, more instant WoG is nice for that random raid member that decides to stand in the fire and take more damage.

The last two tiers aren't terribly useless as far as holy goes. Tower of Radiance is great for HP generation, which less us use WoG more. Light of Dawn, while terribly situational, is still very useful. Blessed Life, although buffed considerably, is still a PvP talent, although some spells like Marrowgar's Bonestorm do seem to proc it (from reading on EJ).

But I guess I can't really say anything, since I'm not in the beta and all.

But you are on live and you can right now go into 5 mans and test if the last talent point in holy tree is worth taking or not. I have repeatedly tried to make it work in random 5 mans for the last week but there is just no way you can. It heals 1 -2 ppl and for about 2-3k each... (I use 20 sec glypth and it also does 20% less healing...) Since I stopped using it I have gone many runs and got alot of prase for my healing in randoms.

[Miyarc]

It's amazing how many people have nothing better to do then whine like children about the dumbest things. The log in screen is fine. It's just a log in screen... get over it.

As for the beta changes, they are BETA CHANGES. Like many have said, that's what beta is for. To change, fix and mess around with things until they are just right. We all get used to the changes in the long run anyways so why complain so much? Once Cata actually releases (and you can experience the stuff first hand) if you still hate it that much then stop playing, problem solved.

[Deleted]

I'd rather have the guttural heave of a T-Rex over the screech of a pissed off demon cat, idiot.

At what point does Deathwing sound like This or This?

Proper T-rex roar still makes my spine tingle.

[Duster505]

that would be all fine and dandy if the paladin needed to cast anything anymore which they don't. they can just holy shock and word of glory to full health no problem anytime they get remotely low. i'm on top of my kicks as a rogue but holy pallies are ridiculous right now. they really do take a mass of people to take down.

I think everyone knows that Light of Dawn is nothing more than the graphic effects atm. The acutally value of the spell is very limited.

In terms of killing holy pala ... he can use holy shock every 6 sec and that holy shock gives 1 holy power that does around 3k healing used with WoG. 2 ppl can very easily take him down in those 6 sec. But ofc... now we will see holy palas dominate PVP cause they are buffing the single heals based on the fact that the AOE heals dont work at all as 30 sec cd and flat heal number.

So... Lets fix AOE healing spells and then lets balance PVP shall we?

[duraz0rz]

But you are on live and you can right now go into 5 mans and test if the last talent point in holy tree is worth taking or not. I have repeatedly tried to make it work in random 5 mans for the last week but there is just no way you can. It heals 1 -2 ppl and for about 2-3k each... (I use 20 sec glypth and it also does 20% less healing...) Since I stopped using it I have gone many runs and got alot of prase for my healing in randoms.

Situational heal is situational. Light of Dawn is something I would use if everyone in a 5 man has a lot of damage taken to prop a few of them up a bit, then bring up the other 2-3 it didn't hit first.

I wouldn't recommend using the glyph because it reduces the healing by a lot, even though it's on a lesser CD. Better off bringing people up with single target heals and saving it for a situation where everyone's hurt and you can hit a lot of people with it.

[Duster505]

Situational heal is situational. Light of Dawn is something I would use if everyone in a 5 man has a lot of damage taken to prop a few of them up a bit, then bring up the other 2-3 it didn't hit first.

I wouldn't recommend using the glyph because it reduces the healing by a lot, even though it's on a lesser CD. Better off bringing people up with single target heals and saving it for a situation where everyone's hurt and you can hit a lot of people with it.

By situatnional you hopefully count in the fact that most range classes do not have to think about where they stand to get healied by cone heal... SO they dont bother ... And why on earth should they ?

As I said... its not worth using. The glypth should ofc be changed right away and remove the healing penalty but then .. when it becomes half usefull in 5 mans.. it becomes OP in 25 man.

So.. See my point about balancing issues. We will come to it again and again for the next 2-3 months and either the class is op or its crap. That is the last thing Holy palas needed right now. THey needed a relyable healing tool to help with AOE healing. Neither of these 2 spells are balanced for diffrent number of players so it CAN NOT be relyable at all. That just a fact that everyone can see right now. ANd it will become more and more obviuos when we see holy paladins struggle in 10 man raids while still beein op in 25 man raids. Simulare tactics are used in 10 and 25 man encounters. SO... The penatly in terms of holy paladin healin spells is pretty much based on number of ppl while smart heals on fixed numbers will work many times better in 10 mans for other healing classes.

[Deleted]

Is it me or does Deathwing actually look kind of cute?

Like a little puppy with big curious eyes, hanging over the garden fence with his front paws.

[Velnica]

Hurray for Resto changes! Seems like I'm gonna sty a Tree for the next expansion But my Spriest is gonna be really sad that the (much OP, heh) Vampiric Embrace is gonna get nerfed by more than half.

[Snes]

That's Blizzard's idea of "tweaking" numbers, no wonder the game will never be balanced.
Forum feedback:"Yeah holy paladins seem to be way above other healers both in terms of output and mana conservation"

Blizzard:"We'll look into it and probably bring them in line with other healers."

*Patch notes for Holy paladins*
30% BUFF
31% SCALING BUFF
19.4% BUFF
30% BUFF
30% BUFF
DURATION BUFF
2% MASTERY BUFF
30% BUFF
RANGE NERF
MANA REGEN NERF

GC:"Look mom I'm balancing classes!"
Seriously, it's like watching a kid try to wire a house properly.

[Deleted]

Awesome, Combat Mastery buff <3

To me, Deathwing looks more like he's going all grumpy old man " /grumble Get off my lawn, you damn kids"

[Nifra]

Yeah, honestly I'm not really impressed with the login screen.

I wish they kept the style from Vanilla and BC with the portals, and just emphasize the background/portal textures with the current theme of the expansion.

WotLK's wasn't so bad (ok, minus the shriek/roar).. I liked how it portrayed Icecrown Citadel (technically your last goal for the expansion) and with the snow, etc, gave it a very à la WotLK feeling.

Cataclysm. I don't know... It just shows Stormwind (horde = we don't care)
with Deathwing just sitting there.. What kind of dragon just sits there, looks around... Probably talking in trade while he's at it.

It's just so... Bland.

Why not have a background from one of the new zones or dungeons and have Deahtwing fly around, breating fire whatnot. I'm definitely sure they could've thought of something more exciting and original.

Oh well.

[Kathion]

The login screen looks too bluish if anyone else gets that...I dunno I don't like it. WTB twilight portal login screen NAO!

---------- Post added 2010-10-27 at 11:52 PM ----------

That's Blizzard's idea of "tweaking" numbers, no wonder the game will never be balanced.
Forum feedback:"Yeah holy paladins seem to be way above other healers both in terms of output and mana conservation"

Blizzard:"We'll look into it and probably bring them in line with other healers."

*Patch notes for Holy paladins*
30% BUFF
31% SCALING BUFF
19.4% BUFF
30% BUFF
30% BUFF
DURATION BUFF
2% MASTERY BUFF
30% BUFF
RANGE NERF
MANA REGEN NERF

GC:"Look mom I'm balancing classes!"
Seriously, it's like watching a kid try to wire a house properly.

I lol'd.

[Ironscroll]

Deathwing should sound like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeYDIEh9dpk

[Deleted]

The login screen looks too bluish if anyone else gets that...I dunno I don't like it. WTB twilight portal login screen NAO!

---------- Post added 2010-10-27 at 11:52 PM ----------



I lol'd.

But it's true

[Qbn]

it's not ironic, he's complaining about people who bitch about little things that make blizzard change huge things. so he's complaining about something big while everyone else complains about something small.

It's still ironic. His post was coincidental and contradictory to what he intended to express then, which is indeed the definition of irony. You took the irony away when you took a second to explain, which he could have done to begin with

Back on topic: 1.) I'm glad to see more Critter achievements! 2.) Soothe has a cast time now; makes sense I guess?