Professions and PvP

[Illrunyou]

So what do you think are the best Professions for BGs and Arenas with the up coming Rated BGs what are you going to use and why?

[Deleted]

Jewelcrafting and Engineering

[fizikz]

eng + X

if you need an explanation why eng is good,I'd have to facepalm in response.

[Illrunyou]

Ya eng is a must with the stacking! Not sure to have JC or Alch as the other though...

[Alex86el]

eng for sure, then alchemy or herb?

[Quehn]

Imo, engineering is overrated. You got, what ? rocket boots, that really make a diferece ? Ok, a good oh shit button.
Grenades ? Short duration and will break instantly, especially in bgs, if we're talking rated bgs.
Hand missle ? Small damage, nothing to drool over.
Parachute ? Hardly an advantage in pvp and some classes even have their own spells that do that, anyway.
Mind control helmet ? Enjoy the sick cooldown on that.

Nah, I would say alchemy is better overall than engineering. Also, JC is good, yeah.

No clue

OT: Engineering and Tailoring, because of the cloak enchant is like a secondary weapon enchant

[Xart]

Imo, engineering is overrated. You got, what ? rocket boots, that really make a diferece ? Ok, a good oh shit button.
Grenades ? Short duration and will break instantly, especially in bgs, if we're talking rated bgs.
Hand missle ? Small damage, nothing to drool over.
Parachute ? Hardly an advantage in pvp and some classes even have their own spells that do that, anyway.
Mind control helmet ? Enjoy the sick cooldown on that.

Nah, I would say alchemy is better overall than engineering. Also, JC is good, yeah.

Engineering is always overpowered at start of the expansion. But becomes less and less attractive. At start. 1.5k rocket gloves were alot on 20k hp. Now rocket gloves for 1.5k on 40k hp. Doesn't make much of a diffrence.

[Soberbia]

im between enchanting jewelcrafting or jewelcrafting alchemy engineering is not that good

[Kaeskalol]

Imo, engineering is overrated. You got, what ? rocket boots, that really make a diferece ? Ok, a good oh shit button.
Grenades ? Short duration and will break instantly, especially in bgs, if we're talking rated bgs.
Hand missle ? Small damage, nothing to drool over.
Parachute ? Hardly an advantage in pvp and some classes even have their own spells that do that, anyway.
Mind control helmet ? Enjoy the sick cooldown on that.

Nah, I would say alchemy is better overall than engineering. Also, JC is good, yeah.

You are retarded.

Rocket boots allow more than just an "Oh Shit!", they give you both tactical (in combat) and strategic (out of combat) utility, especially paired with the parachute cloak. See an enemy flag runner? You can get up close and personal. See that healer about to make a clutch cyclone? Not anymore, because you're in range to counterspell them now! Want to make people cry? Rocketboots. Bladestorm. (Worgen get Darkflight Bladestorm, which is going to be awesome for an OHSHIT button).
Grenades have lot of utility- for chasing down a runner, peeling someone from you, 'interrupting' a cast, knocking that rogue/druid out of stealth when you see them vanish/cloak, et cetera.
Pyro rocket- yeah, the damage isn't impressive now, but it's always been useful to include for keeping people in combat so they can't drink or restealth or mount up.
Parachute- if you can sprint and pop your parachute in WSG, you can have ~10 seconds in which you are just about untouchable by melee. If that isn't abusable, I don't know what is.
Mind Control Helm- 8 minutes is a srs cooldown, yo, for an ability to give people pet pathing for 10 seconds (which is hilarious, having someone run up a wall and then fall to their deaths when the MC breaks), or backfiring on a bladestorming warrior and stunning them for 8 seconds. Oh, MCing an enemy healer when someone you're beating on is low, that's fun. Yeah, that's totally NOT cool, yo.

JCing is also good for (YES!) TEH TRINKETZ, the passive buffs, and the ability to make decent money, which Eng kinda lacks.

[Heldamon]

About the rocket gloves, you don't make that for the damage.
You see the rogue coming...usually they come mounted in a small distance and then go stealth. If you hit the rocket just before they go stealth, that's it, the rocket hits the rogue and he's visible
Also it interrupts the flag capturing at AB or Eots

Grenades can stop 3 people trying to capture a flag in Arathi basin, even when you fight someone away from it.

Mind Control cap can take the enemy healer on your side and beat that dps without him and turn a fight from 1 vs 2 to 2 vs 1.

In Arathi basin rocketboots and parachute get you from LM to Farm without being noticed while you fly above the fight at the bridge and lm climb side.
Also jumping from lm to bs and to mine with parachute almost instantly is a great reinforcement in a hard situation even when you only manage to interrupt capturing.

[Quehn]

Hand Rockets also have more burst. 1.5k damage can be the difference between execute or not.

It is also good for spell pushback, an instant ranged attack, pushback while silenced.

[Zheryn]

Imo, engineering is overrated. You got, what ? rocket boots, that really make a diferece ? Ok, a good oh shit button.
Grenades ? Short duration and will break instantly, especially in bgs, if we're talking rated bgs.
Hand missle ? Small damage, nothing to drool over.
Parachute ? Hardly an advantage in pvp and some classes even have their own spells that do that, anyway.
Mind control helmet ? Enjoy the sick cooldown on that.

Nah, I would say alchemy is better overall than engineering. Also, JC is good, yeah.

haha funny one

[Basharic]

You are retarded.

Rocket boots allow more than just an "Oh Shit!", they give you both tactical (in combat) and strategic (out of combat) utility, especially paired with the parachute cloak. See an enemy flag runner? You can get up close and personal. See that healer about to make a clutch cyclone? Not anymore, because you're in range to counterspell them now! Want to make people cry? Rocketboots. Bladestorm. (Worgen get Darkflight Bladestorm, which is going to be awesome for an OHSHIT button).
Grenades have lot of utility- for chasing down a runner, peeling someone from you, 'interrupting' a cast, knocking that rogue/druid out of stealth when you see them vanish/cloak, et cetera.
Pyro rocket- yeah, the damage isn't impressive now, but it's always been useful to include for keeping people in combat so they can't drink or restealth or mount up.
Parachute- if you can sprint and pop your parachute in WSG, you can have ~10 seconds in which you are just about untouchable by melee. If that isn't abusable, I don't know what is.
Mind Control Helm- 8 minutes is a srs cooldown, yo, for an ability to give people pet pathing for 10 seconds (which is hilarious, having someone run up a wall and then fall to their deaths when the MC breaks), or backfiring on a bladestorming warrior and stunning them for 8 seconds. Oh, MCing an enemy healer when someone you're beating on is low, that's fun. Yeah, that's totally NOT cool, yo.

JCing is also good for (YES!) TEH TRINKETZ, the passive buffs, and the ability to make decent money, which Eng kinda lacks.

Lol as with all professions these are easily countered with smart play. I can honestly say I've never seen rocket boots used offensively, (short of the quick trip to BS from mill). And defensively they are just lol, "Oh looky that rogue is rocketbooting away! Casts root/feral charge.

People forget that Rated BGs are not going to be the tickle fights we've had in BGs up 'til now. The smart players aren't generally going to be too put out by any wrinkle a profession can throw at them. The best you can hope for is that you use a professions trick when it is unexpected or counters are on CD.

So I will stay herb/alch as I have for years now. Why? The herbing heal, while nothing special in and of itself, scales with how big your health pool is, combine this with frenzied regen, and other defensive CDs in druid bear form and I'm not dying anytime soon. Even in the current DPS heavy environment it's lollerskates vs massive groups of enemies. Alchemist Pots put back both health and mana at the same time, cheap and easy Free Action Pots, Speed pots, water walking, extra stealth, stealth detection, etc. plus boosted stats from flasks/elxirs. A well-stocked alchemist has an answer for almost every contingency if they use them right. Lastly, it's not pvp related but I'll get to turn in a freaking dragon! "Free rides for the ladies." Will actually mean something!

[Kaeskalol]

Lol as with all professions these are easily countered with smart play. I can honestly say I've never seen rocket boots used offensively, (short of the quick trip to BS from mill). And defensively they are just lol, "Oh looky that rogue is rocketbooting away! Casts root/feral charge.

People forget that Rated BGs are not going to be the tickle fights we've had in BGs up 'til now. The smart players aren't generally going to be too put out by any wrinkle a profession can throw at them. The best you can hope for is that you use a professions trick when it is unexpected or counters are on CD.

So I will stay herb/alch as I have for years now. Why? The herbing heal, while nothing special in and of itself, scales with how big your health pool is, combine this with frenzied regen, and other defensive CDs in druid bear form and I'm not dying anytime soon. Even in the current DPS heavy environment it's lollerskates vs massive groups of enemies. Alchemist Pots put back both health and mana at the same time, cheap and easy Free Action Pots, Speed pots, water walking, extra stealth, stealth detection, etc. plus boosted stats from flasks/elxirs. A well-stocked alchemist has an answer for almost every contingency if they use them right. Lastly, it's not pvp related but I'll get to turn in a freaking dragon! "Free rides for the ladies." Will actually mean something!

There's only one problem with your argument.

Other than the endless healing/mana potion and the buffed flasks, none of the other potions you listed have a profession restriction.

That means anyone can use a FAP, a speed pot, extra stealth, stealth detection- OH, yes, that's right. We come to the other problem of Alchemy. See, you've sorta only got one use of your potion in combat. As an engineer, I get my grenades every 60 seconds ('interrupt', peel, or 'snare', and Frost grenades give root to that category), glove (rockets/haste), cloak (Parachute) and boot tinkers (nitro boosts, HO!) are off the GCD, and that really DOES make a bit of difference. You will not always be able to get out of combat to restart to cooldown on your potions- rocket gloves say HI!

The Herbalism HoT is good, I will admit that. Of course, there's also,

The herbing heal, while nothing special in and of itself, scales with how big your health pool is, combine this with frenzied regen, and other defensive CDs in druid bear form and I'm not dying anytime soon

the stacking of a heal with defensive cooldowns.

Lastly, if you've never seen nitro boosts used offensively, you've never seen someone use them to their fullest potential. As a melee class, they are awesome to catch up with someone if your gap closer is on CD or out of range (hard to feral charge that rogue if he's out of range, isn't it?). Smart engineers can use them as either a defensive cooldown or an offensive one, and sometimes both simultaneously. You can use Engineering to control the field, which is going to be clutch in rated BGs.

[Xart]

Herbalism doesn't grant a heal anymore. It grants a cooldown based haste effect like a trinket.

[Mem]

Herbalism doesn't grant a heal anymore. It grants a cooldown based haste effect like a trinket.

pic or it didn't happen. Verify please.

[Kaeskalol]

pic or it didn't happen. Verify please.

It heals, and it provides haste- equivalent to the haste glove tinker.

[Ormula]

I'm engineering/alch. Although I could probably use a better profession other than alchemy, the ability to make my own potions will be crazy helpful in cata. Especially with the prices on lower-level herbs going down in the beginning. Nitro boots, by the way, is an amazing offensive cooldown as a feral kitty.

[Basharic]

There's only one problem with your argument.

Other than the endless healing/mana potion and the buffed flasks, none of the other potions you listed have a profession restriction.

That means anyone can use a FAP, a speed pot, extra stealth, stealth detection- OH, yes, that's right. We come to the other problem of Alchemy. See, you've sorta only got one use of your potion in combat. As an engineer, I get my grenades every 60 seconds ('interrupt', peel, or 'snare', and Frost grenades give root to that category), glove (rockets/haste), cloak (Parachute) and boot tinkers (nitro boosts, HO!) are off the GCD, and that really DOES make a bit of difference. You will not always be able to get out of combat to restart to cooldown on your potions- rocket gloves say HI!

The Herbalism HoT is good, I will admit that. Of course, there's also, the stacking of a heal with defensive cooldowns.

Lastly, if you've never seen nitro boosts used offensively, you've never seen someone use them to their fullest potential. As a melee class, they are awesome to catch up with someone if your gap closer is on CD or out of range (hard to feral charge that rogue if he's out of range, isn't it?). Smart engineers can use them as either a defensive cooldown or an offensive one, and sometimes both simultaneously. You can use Engineering to control the field, which is going to be clutch in rated BGs.

You missed the point. All the alchy stuff is my opinion and what I have found works for me as a feral druid and my playstyle. Different classes/players have different needs. The message is that the professions won't make as much of a difference in rated BGs as they can now. Every profession item can be countered if you know what you are doing and have the counter ability available. In a massed fight between organized teams SOMEONE will have that counter option ready. We could go back and forth with thousands of scenarios and counters to each item, and counters to the counters forever. It's part of what makes WoW fun.

With Rated BGs, especially at the top end, the odds that you are going to surprise anyone with any profession item is going to be practically nil. That doesn't mean they will be useless, just means they will take some good timing and luck. BTw I was referring to Crazy Alchemist Pots not endless. The endless pots are junk atm.

[Kaeskalol]

Thank you for giving me the tools with which to help knock sense into you.

In a massed fight between organized teams SOMEONE will have that counter option ready.

Having a much wider selection of tools IN ADDITION TO the non-profession specific alchemy potions gives me more of an incentive to go engineering. Why would I go alchemy and limit myself to an RNG proc (which may or may not be what I want) when I can go Engineering, get that tool set (which has backfires that are actually pretty useful at times), and still benefit from Alchemy?

What do you get from Engineering that as a non-Engineer you can use? Discombobulator Ray, Healing/Mana potion injectors, and smoke flares. Nothing else is usable (as in on-use) by a non-Engineer.

What do you get from Engineering that only an Engineer can use? Frag Grenades, Frost Grenades, Explosive Sheep (yes, useful), Nitro Boosts, Pyro Rocket, Parachute Cloak, Fire/Frost/Shadow reflector trinkets, etc, etc. The Engineering toolbox is *huge*.

Inversely, what can you get from Alchemy that as a non-Alchemist you can use? Free Action Potion, Living Action Potion, any of the healing potions, all the other spell effect potions, rage potion if you're a druid or a warrior, etc.

What can you get from Alchemy that only an Alchemist can use? The trinkets (40% is huge, yo, when the other trinkets you get later on in the game grossly outscale them), the drake (lol), the 'special' flask of the North, and the Mad/Crazy Alchemist potion (gogo RNG proc).