Tips for applying to high-end raiding guilds

[wayne62682]

On my current server I am in a decent enough raiding guild (I recently joined them, however, after flitting around in several subpart guilds that claimed to be raiding and did barely anything, or barely progressed when they did raid) however with starting a new job this week I'm going to be unable to meet the guild's raid times, and if I can't get them to be flexible or join another group within the I'll have no choice but to try and find a guild whose times will work better moving forward to Cataclysm. Also, I've been focused on leveling a new character, a Warrior tank (my current main is a Pally tank), to be my new main in Cataclysm and that's taken up almost all of my time lately.

Let me be frank and say that the only reason I play WoW is for the raiding experience; if I didn't raid I would probably not play the game. I had quite a long time where I was in very casual guilds that either didn't raid or could barely muster enough people to make a raid, and when they could raid were extremely poor in performance - until I server transferred the furthest I had been into ICC was 6/12 as the guilds I had been a part of were unable to get further. After going to a few guilds on a new server, my Pally tank managed to be 11/12 in ICC25 (never could get that last push on LK to down him) and 12/12 in ICC10, with 6/12 Heroic experience and 4/12 Heroic completion (for some inexplicable reason the guild never did Marrowgar and Deathwhisper on Heroic, so my 4/12 is Rotface, Festergut, BQL and Lootship, with the two incomplete kills but fight experience being Dreamwalker and Blood Princes; shortly after I joined the group stopped running to take a hiatus until Cataclysm so we haven't pushed HMs any further than that or even done regular full clears of ICC).

Moving into Cataclysm, though, I want more. I want to push progression in a top-tier guild as I know I have the skill, but I'm lacking the connections to ease my way in to a high-end progression guild (i.e. I don't know people or have friends that know people so can put in a good word and get me a trial run or even an invite). Now, I'm going to run into the problem that in Cataclysm my "main" is going to be untested raid-wise as I'm not going to have enough time really to gear up him and get him into ICC, while I as the player have decent ICC experience on other toons (i.e. the Pally tank) and the potential to be doing a lot more than I'm currently able to (At the risk of coming across very conceited and even arrogant, I'm confident that I'm good enough to be in a top-ranked guild and perform to their standards, but have been saddled with lots of poor guilds that were unable to push content for almost the entirety of my career as a raider, not to mention only starting to play the game as ICC was released and therefore being forced to skip all but the penultimate content [i.e. ToC]).

It may come down in the next few weeks that I look at leaving my current guild (again, due to schedule conflicts) and possibly even a server transfer to a new realm as there is some excess baggage on my current realm that may or may not prove a problem. In any case, I'd be looking for something better than what I seem to have found, but I'm unsure how to exactly go about "selling" myself when my excuse for not being 12/12 in ICC Heroic isn't a lack of personal skill, it's lack of having 9 (or 24) other people dedicated and skilled enough to do it with me. That issue comes doubly so when the character I would be applying with will have had zero WOTLK raid experience due to being leveled to 80 very quickly in (assuming I can hit 80 before 12/7) approximately four weeks via tanking and the LFD tool in order to be 80 before the expansion hits (albeit I could link the current main as a reference to show that I have raided).

This question bothers me almost daily because, honestly, I want more out of the game than what I seem to be able to have, and I don't know how to go about getting it. A hardcore raider trapped in the body of a casual raider, as it were (not that there's anything wrong with casual raiding, so don't think I'm saying that. Raiding is just, IMO, the key part of the game and the only part that matters).

Can anyone offer some advice, or suggestions, or even flat out convincing me otherwise in regards to this?

[bobbert116]

Tell them you're attentive, focused, and that you know your class better than other people. The most important part of an application is being well spoken, which you apparently are. Just tell them why they'd benefit from recruiting you instead of some other jerk. There's not much else you can do in your case. Good guild leaders will be understanding of your unfortunate history with raiding guilds. Make sure you find a guild whose schedule as well as mindset meets with your own.

[Mrisacc]

Also a lot of guilds don't look directly at past experience. While it is a plus as it shows already that you have a grasp of what you're doing it isn't always the determining factor. As bobbert said you need to sell yourself. If you are a good player and can make people think that you'll get far in this game. Once people know you're a good player you'll be set.

[Hypro]

From what i read you were in the same situation that was in... now im in a decent guild we are 11/12hm. My best advice is do the app like you would do any job. alot of top guilds see that people who put the effort into there guild apps, actually look like they are going to put effort into there charcs... and tbh with cata just around the corner top guilds arent really looking at what you have done in WOTLK because cata is a fresh start for anyone.. so mate just make ur app outstanding spell check proper grammer and all that.... it will go far

[Shiravan]

Don't buy your LK hardmode kiill, then proceed to call it "Light of Downs" throughout your app like a priest that apped to my guild did.

I can't read my title the same way now, hence my sig.

[Hypro]

Don't buy your LK hardmode kiill, then proceed to call it "Light of Downs" throughout your app like a priest that apped to my guild did.

I can't read my title the same way now, hence my sig.

Still wear it with pride because you actually have to before it came easy yes?

[TechGnosis]

As a former officer for two separate raiding guilds I can tell you that your application is indeed very much like a job application. If you cant be bothered to spend 30 minutes and make your application coherent and actually answer the questions asked in the application, then we (the officers) can't be bothered to read it. As your application is the image you project before the guild can see you preform, its your first impression. Most will assume if it looks like it was written by a retard, it probably was.
Also do talk a bit about your previous experience, as it shows you understand basic fight mechanics (fire bad) and mention your lack of actual progress is due to to attendance issues.

[Vudu]

There will be some guilds that outright reject you due to lack of good (in their opinion) experience. However plenty of guilds only use experience as one aspect of recruiting. I used to be an officer in several raiding guilds, and I generally found that how much effort put into the app usually showed more about the recruit than past experience did.

I'm in a similar situation currently. IMO you're options are to apply to alot of guilds that meet your requirements, and hope one of them is hurting for your class or is stacking members for cataclysm. Still though, you probably have enough experience for many of them to give you a trial if everything else on your app goes well.

Your backup options: Join a guild between where you're at and where you're wanting to be and use them as a stepping stone (harsh, yes, but still an option. Could back-fire if your target guild views it negatively). Alternatively, you could just wait until Cata, level/gear quickly, and then apply to a guild then that you know is lagging behind in their start-up goal. Plenty of people will be slow levelers or just quit outright and leave their guild needing new recruits.

[Zabakua]

the-core-guild.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6164 (yes, i'm new)

read and learn

[Dossou]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but as a previous member of Symphonia, I know from personal experience that they are terrible players.
Nearly every single one of their players with the exception of a few are carried by gear.

You've had bad luck in getting accepted there, move on.

[zingbat]

From the sounds of it, depending on your work hours, you may not be able to join a top tier guild. They require a lot of attendance, day after day while they are working on progression.

I have been in guilds that have raided from 7pm till 4-5am , just to get specific bosses down and meet a schedule. When you want to be the best, you must provide a lot of time and effort. Also, while trying to push for the hardest bosses in the games, it's important to always bring flasks, proper food (not the group food buff, which is not the best choice for anyone), repair money, alternate glyphs (no longer a problem, since we learn them), gold for respecs .. etc..

This means you will need to put in time farming and then raiding.. and with a hectic work schedule, this can be tough.

If you can find a pinnacle guild that meets your raid times, and sticks to a schedule, all the power to you. However, guilds that have a set end time, usually end up resulting in being behind a lot of the higher end guilds. Once players see it is 15 minutes before raid ends, everyone gets tired and lazy, no one is flasking or wasting food buffs.. etc... its pathetic... also, there is nothing worse then getting the boss to 10% the attempt before, and OH.. ITS 12AM.. TIME TO BAIL, BYE EVERYONE, WE'LL RESET FROM SCRATCH IN 3 DAYS WITH 10 NEW PLAYERS SINCE HALF OF YOU WONT SHOW!!!!

So ya... Time is a big factor

[Sojobo]

The best advice is to not assume anything. If you can, spend time talking to their members and understand their mindset about raiding. Use basic psychology from there.

[Master Guns]

Be good at the game.

[Kainan]

My honest best advice is to not bother at all because its better to play with people that are friendly then to play with people that are cold and don't really care about you and can /gkick you in an instant for screwing up.

[Emaluri]

the-core-guild.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6164 (yes, i'm new)

read and learn

That was excellent. I particularly enjoyed the last attempt.

[Fabious]

My honest best advice is to not bother at all because its better to play with people that are friendly then to play with people that are cold and don't really care about you and can /gkick you in an instant for screwing up.

Sounds like someone was really terrible and wasted a lot of his raid member's time and is bitter because he was kicked from a guild he didn't even belong in.

I'd ignore this kid and focus on putting effort into what you write. That is the most important...also logs can show many guilds that you understand your class ESPECIALLY since the 4.0 change.

Also, many people seem to be changing mains in Cata...I wouldn't worry about you starting fresh on a new toon with no raid experience on him.

Just be be honest about why you lack progression and prove you deserved to be in a better guild in the first place ie: logs, examples of why you are geared/specced the way you are, etc. etc.

[Yooya]

Aim for something within the top 300-500 world for your first step in. Many guilds in that range are fairly forgiving.

[Kainan]

Sounds like someone was really terrible and wasted a lot of his raid member's time and is bitter because he was kicked from a guild he didn't even belong in.

I'd ignore this kid and focus on putting effort into what you write. That is the most important...also logs can show many guilds that you understand your class ESPECIALLY since the 4.0 change.

Also, many people seem to be changing mains in Cata...I wouldn't worry about you starting fresh on a new toon with no raid experience on him.

Just be be honest about why you lack progression and prove you deserved to be in a better guild in the first place ie: logs, examples of why you are geared/specced the way you are, etc. etc.

Good job thinking it was me when in fact it my friend in life who told me this story when it happened to someone in his guild and he plays horde while I play alliance. I would like to add again you think I'm a child when I'm not one and in fact in 4 days is my birthday and I will be turning 24 years old.

[Fabious]

Good job thinking it was me when in fact it my friend in life who told me this story when it happened to someone in his guild and he plays horde while I play alliance.

What???

Never mind...I don't care who told you that...even though I don't believe what you just said....either way...,you or your friend's friend (yeah... believable) is terrible and bitter...and by stating it you clearly believe in it...don't try to push this guy away from doing what he wants because you, or a friend, or a friend's friend friend thing was bad and angry he was terrible.

Oh...and you might not want to act like a child if you are turning 24...advice there. You acted like a child by posting something so out of left field. Guess all us top raiders are cold or get some kind of sick enjoyment from "getting gkicked at any second???"

[rethea]

I wrote this out for somebody else recently. It's um, kinda sassy in places, so don't take offense. I was a little upset at the guy, but it's still valid. >.<

1. Start searching for a guild, making posts on the official recruitment forums with your guild and server preferences, along with your armory. Many guilds will spam you, and most of them will be irrelevant (wrong faction, wrong progression, bad raid times for you), but you should get two or three that match up closely enough with your preferences. In addition, you should check other guilds' threads and do a search for those who need your class/spec badly. Investigate the realm forums of servers that are of the right age, population, timezone, prevalent language, and faction density for guilds that are recruiting (and to see if the server you're considering has the amount of overall progression you'd prefer).
2. Narrowing down to guilds that have the demand for your spec/class and gear (of course, gear is less important right now) and fulfill your size, personality, progression, time, and loot format requirements, fill out the application on their guild forums. Take this opportunity to evaluate the professionalism of their application instructions, content, and the overall management and popularity of their forums. (Keep in mind that their more active forums may be private, but you should get a good feel from the amount of applications and their turnover, as other applications and final decisions are usually public.)
3. Sparkle! Almost anyone can get into a guild with a solid application. Most recruitment officers are flooded with terrible applicants, who either don't meet their minimum requirements or can barely put two words together. Proper spelling and grammar will get you far. Try to stand out, use action words, gloss over any inconsistencies in your raiding history, and take every opportunity to show that you know your class. Experience is nice, but knowledge is better. Explain your gear choices. Explain your talent choices. Explain your rotation/priority list. Give honest answers about your availability and experience. (It'd be really stupid to lie about experience because they WILL check it.)
4. Wait for a response. During this time, keep your armory as you would like it to be seen. Keep up with any theorycrafting changes that happen during that time (especially important now, as 4.0.1 isn't fully understood yet) and gem/enchant/reforge/spec/glyph accordingly. Logging off in pvp gear will not impress them and will expose any inconsistencies in your pvp set. Don't relevel a profession, unless you can max the profession within a game session! Even abandoning a gathering profession for one that is top tier will negatively affect their first impression of your armory if your skill isn't capped.
5. After a positive response (or a lukewarm one), respond to any questions or criticism from the recruitment officer and your class officer. Explain, politely, and make any suggested changes with which you agree. This is not the time to ask ANY questions about the guild. This process is entirely conducted by the officers.
6. In almost all cases now, as most guilds are recruiting for Cataclysm and do not have immediate raid openings, you will be asked to make a character on the guild's server and speak to a specific person in game for your interview. This will most likely be the recruitment officer with whom you have had most communication up to this point. When you have a fair amount of free time that will not be interrupted, contact the specified person in game. The best time is about twenty to thirty minutes after their scheduled raid times, especially on a Tuesday. Be honest and open about your experience (and be prepared to discuss fights of which you have claimed to be knowledgeable) and match your application! Depending on the structure of the guild and availability, you may be asked to talk to your class officer. Defend your talent choices, but be open to suggestions.
7. At this point, most guilds will ask you to join vent. Log on quickly, have your vent name match your applying character's name, and look for the person you were asked to speak to. If their vent name isn't obvious, stay in the lobby until you are directed to do otherwise in game or are dragged to where you are supposed to be. Use a headset! This portion is mostly to discern whether you know how to use vent and have a proper microphone.
8. If this interview goes well, you're all set! Empty your mailboxes, cancel all auctions, wait on any bids you've made to clear, and transfer! If you aren't given a person to whisper for an invite, try to get a hold of someone you've already spoken to or the GM if available.

Probably tl;dr material, but if you're nervous about applying to a guild, I could probably pump out an app. It's just so easy to get into most guilds with a good app..